Valerian Posted June 17, 2014 Share Posted June 17, 2014 After reading the 7th faq, draigo has actually been nerfed. HE NO LONGER HAS A NEMISIS FORCE SWORD. he has a regular force sword with the mastercrafted and daemonbane rules. Therefore he no longer gets a 2++ in combat because he no longer has a nemesis weapon. He never did have a Nemesis weapon, just read the codex entry. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/292314-draigo-question/page/2/#findComment-3721567 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Coolpants Posted June 17, 2014 Share Posted June 17, 2014 How come everybody used to say he had a 2++ in CC? The very reason he was a CC tank (without psychic powers) I've always read those comments and didn't question it. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/292314-draigo-question/page/2/#findComment-3721680 Share on other sites More sharing options...
lt051 Posted June 17, 2014 Share Posted June 17, 2014 Because people who didn't bother reading the codex assumed he got the same bonus every other model with a sword did, but he never did. He is still nuts in combat, less so since 6th and it's changes to power weapons though Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/292314-draigo-question/page/2/#findComment-3721682 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Valerian Posted June 17, 2014 Share Posted June 17, 2014 Nope, he never had 2++ in CC, so you wouldn't have read that here at the BnC. In fact, we all assumed that his Titansword was expressly not a Nemesis weapon for the very reason that the designer didn't want to create a 2++ in CC monster. Draigo was over-the-top powerful as it was; just imagine the riot that would have caused. V Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/292314-draigo-question/page/2/#findComment-3721683 Share on other sites More sharing options...
lt051 Posted June 17, 2014 Share Posted June 17, 2014 Holy crap, I think you just complimented Ward for his restraint.... It's a miracle Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/292314-draigo-question/page/2/#findComment-3721688 Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeffersonian000 Posted June 17, 2014 Share Posted June 17, 2014 Ward gets a lot of unjust flak for his rules, when its his fluff that justifies all the negativity. Frankly, Ward is one of GW's best game mechanics designers currently on staff, crafting strong codexes with strong options and diverse army builds. It's just that I can never forgive him for that utter garbage he wrote for the Bloodtide incident. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/292314-draigo-question/page/2/#findComment-3721892 Share on other sites More sharing options...
lt051 Posted June 17, 2014 Share Posted June 17, 2014 Read the short story "sacrifice" by... whoever did the original 3 gk books, can't remember right now. Anyways makes the blood tide thing make a little more sense. But really, in 5th draigo was a beat train with no brakes. A 2++ would have been primarch mode Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/292314-draigo-question/page/2/#findComment-3721894 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quozzo Posted June 18, 2014 Share Posted June 18, 2014 Well since the Primarchs were created from the Emperor and the Grey Knights geneseed comes from the Emperor then shouldn't they be pseudo-Primarchs? As no GK have actually fallen to chaos and Draigo can exists in a place with no physics then i guess they sorta are, and yes I did just answer my own question. With sanctuary now increasing everyone's inv save then Draigo could infact get a 2++. would sanctuary increase the stave to 1++ Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/292314-draigo-question/page/2/#findComment-3722228 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gentlemanloser Posted June 18, 2014 Share Posted June 18, 2014 Ward gets a lot of unjust flak for his rules, when its his fluff that justifies all the negativity. Frankly, Ward is one of GW's best game mechanics designers currently on staff, crafting strong codexes with strong options and diverse army builds. It's just that I can never forgive him for that utter garbage he wrote for the Bloodtide incident. Ignoring the BCs Digital Weapons, Crowe mechanically sucks. As do both the other "should be ICs, but aren't". Ward does drop some rule clangers. With sanctuary now increasing everyone's inv save then Draigo could infact get a 2++. would sanctuary increase the stave to 1++ Sanctuary's don't stack. That being said, I don't understand GWs aversion to 1+ or 1++ Saves... Any roll of a 1 for a save is a fail *anyway*. a 1+ Save would allow you to take a Save versus Plasma (And still fail on a roll of a 1). Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/292314-draigo-question/page/2/#findComment-3722230 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ozshock Posted June 18, 2014 Share Posted June 18, 2014 cant improve any save of any kind above 2+...but hten as avid gamers we should all know that one :P Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/292314-draigo-question/page/2/#findComment-3722232 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quozzo Posted June 18, 2014 Share Posted June 18, 2014 Ward gets a lot of unjust flak for his rules, when its his fluff that justifies all the negativity. Frankly, Ward is one of GW's best game mechanics designers currently on staff, crafting strong codexes with strong options and diverse army builds. It's just that I can never forgive him for that utter garbage he wrote for the Bloodtide incident. Ignoring the BCs Digital Weapons, Crowe mechanically sucks. As do both the other "should be ICs, but aren't". Ward does drop some rule clangers. With sanctuary now increasing everyone's inv save then Draigo could infact get a 2++. would sanctuary increase the stave to 1++ Sanctuary's don't stack. That being said, I don't understand GWs aversion to 1+ or 1++ Saves... Any roll of a 1 for a save is a fail *anyway*. a 1+ Save would allow you to take a Save versus Plasma (And still fail on a roll of a 1). Draigo has the only GK storm shield, so sanctuary on Draigo will yield the 2++. Get a MPriest in there for rerolls too. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/292314-draigo-question/page/2/#findComment-3722356 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reclusiarch Darius Posted June 18, 2014 Share Posted June 18, 2014 Draigo has the only GK storm shield, so sanctuary on Draigo will yield the 2++. Get a MPriest in there for rerolls too. You still have to roll 'Sanctuary' though. Honestly, if you're that keen for a 2+ save, just take a warding stave on a Grandmaster. Cheaper, more balanced (so less tears from opponents). Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/292314-draigo-question/page/2/#findComment-3722415 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gentlemanloser Posted June 18, 2014 Share Posted June 18, 2014 Soz! Misread stave as save above :whistle Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/292314-draigo-question/page/2/#findComment-3722500 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grand Master Caloth Posted June 18, 2014 Share Posted June 18, 2014 Draigo's save is all the time, so with Sanctuary his 2++d would work against shooting as well, unlike the stave which is in CC only Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/292314-draigo-question/page/2/#findComment-3722560 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reclusiarch Darius Posted June 18, 2014 Share Posted June 18, 2014 Draigo's save is all the time, so with Sanctuary his 2++d would work against shooting as well, unlike the stave which is in CC only Yeah, but you still need to roll 'Sanctuary'. Which is why the stave is better, its always on and balanced. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/292314-draigo-question/page/2/#findComment-3722565 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deamon Wolf Posted June 18, 2014 Share Posted June 18, 2014 Dragio is as balanced as Abbadon or calgar all can hurt each other but each is specificly awsome If Dragio could have what 11 S5 AP 2 attacks normal or 12 S5 AP 2 attacks on the charge like Abbadon then that would break him I have played vs abbadon when a guy miss read the Chaos dex and gave him a 3++ save for the mark of tzinch he was NASTY that deamon blade is just horrific which actually went through Dragio and a 3rd of my Army before I could regroupe and rip him to shreads and Calgar 4++ Save along with 5 Attacks normal 6 on the charge at S8 going last but F *** me that is worse than Dragio, especially since you deep strike 2 10 man usints of terminators around him then there is one BIG nut to crack, at least Dragio is on S 10 vs deamons and Psykers oh and BTW 2++ save on dragio is awsome now with sanctury i have loads of fun running him around on his own taking out units of marines and Chosen with out too much trouble its knight titians that have squished him a bit Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/292314-draigo-question/page/2/#findComment-3722615 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quozzo Posted June 18, 2014 Share Posted June 18, 2014 Draigo's save is all the time, so with Sanctuary his 2++d would work against shooting as well, unlike the stave which is in CC only Yeah, but you still need to roll 'Sanctuary'. Which is why the stave is better, its always on and balanced. It's not always on, you need to get into melee in which case no-one will be hitting you with ranged attacks. Sanctuary works for both, and the power only needs to be activated once but has a chance of failing. It seems rather balanced tbh, one only works in melee the other works for both but can fail. It just depends on some luck, the meta and your tactics. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/292314-draigo-question/page/2/#findComment-3722741 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reclusiarch Darius Posted June 19, 2014 Share Posted June 19, 2014 It's not always on, you need to get into melee in which case no-one will be hitting you with ranged attacks. Sanctuary works for both, and the power only needs to be activated once but has a chance of failing. It seems rather balanced tbh, one only works in melee the other works for both but can fail. It just depends on some luck, the meta and your tactics. Also, as I keep mentioning but no one one seems to mind, you have to roll 'Sanctuary' on Draigo. Which he has decent odds of doing so (1/3), but still. I really don't see a point to Draigo in 7th. The standard Grandmaster does all his tricks, plus he's cheaper, can take grenade options, and different nemesis weapons. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/292314-draigo-question/page/2/#findComment-3723266 Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeffersonian000 Posted June 19, 2014 Share Posted June 19, 2014 Storm Shield, it's the Storm Shield. Draigo is still our only SS toting EW model in our Dex, which makes him valuable. SJ Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/292314-draigo-question/page/2/#findComment-3723289 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reclusiarch Darius Posted June 19, 2014 Share Posted June 19, 2014 Storm Shield, it's the Storm Shield. Draigo is still our only SS toting EW model in our Dex, which makes him valuable. So for a powerfist shy of 300 points, I can get an attachable 3+ invul. That's some forged narrative GW :) Honestly, you can still lose dudes to mass fire anyway (in fact its how I almost always lose Terminators, they roll 1's like pros but invuls I roll like a god). Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/292314-draigo-question/page/2/#findComment-3723310 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quozzo Posted June 19, 2014 Share Posted June 19, 2014 Storm Shield, it's the Storm Shield. Draigo is still our only SS toting EW model in our Dex, which makes him valuable. So for a powerfist shy of 300 points, I can get an attachable 3+ invul. That's some forged narrative GW Honestly, you can still lose dudes to mass fire anyway (in fact its how I almost always lose Terminators, they roll 1's like pros but invuls I roll like a god). An attachable 3+ is only adding onto the cost of the GM, you still need to take a GK HQ so why not take Draigo who has that 3+ and has better stats than a GKGM. He is also S10 against psykers which, in case you were wondering, are in every list now :P Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/292314-draigo-question/page/2/#findComment-3723315 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reclusiarch Darius Posted June 19, 2014 Share Posted June 19, 2014 An attachable 3+ is only adding onto the cost of the GM, you still need to take a GK HQ so why not take Draigo who has that 3+ and has better stats than a GKGM. He is also S10 against psykers which, in case you were wondering, are in every list now I don't have to take a Grandmaster, or indeed any GK HQ choice. Coteaz is fine, as are cheap Inquisitors. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/292314-draigo-question/page/2/#findComment-3723434 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ozshock Posted June 23, 2014 Share Posted June 23, 2014 im thinking Draigo will be my new TGS character...for the price of an expensive GM you get the 3++, Psyker lvl 2, S5 T5 and Eternal warrior...plus high WS if you make a GM lvl 2, give him a hammer/halberd (never use a sword) and load him up with a grenade or 2 he comes in close to that amount anyway...and who better to put with an assault squad... im looking at an assault squad of purifiers just to make a squad a bit cheaper than terminators but just as deadly...cleansing flame would remove all the support fire that tau can bring you...if you position right you can get multiple squads...bring in Draigo with his eternal warrior T5 and sit him at the front soaking wounds like a boss...and you get hammerhand for free, allowing draigo to roll for invis, if he can get it...attach an inquis or coteaz and you have a monster of a squad there Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/292314-draigo-question/page/2/#findComment-3726714 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reclusiarch Darius Posted June 23, 2014 Share Posted June 23, 2014 if you make a GM lvl 2, give him a hammer/halberd (never use a sword) and load him up with a grenade or 2 he comes in close to that amount anyway...and who better to put with an assault squad... No, even with all the useful upgrades, a GM won't crack 250 points. Draigo is 275, has far less options and buffs, and he can't ignore 2+ saves in melee (which is terrible for such a costly beatstick). im looking at an assault squad of purifiers just to make a squad a bit cheaper than terminators but just as deadly...cleansing flame would remove all the support fire that tau can bring you...if you position right you can get multiple squads...bring in Draigo with his eternal warrior T5 and sit him at the front soaking wounds like a boss...and you get hammerhand for free, allowing draigo to roll for invis, if he can get it...attach an inquis or coteaz and you have a monster of a squad there If you don't roll 'Invis' however, you're screwed. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/292314-draigo-question/page/2/#findComment-3726823 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Coolpants Posted June 25, 2014 Share Posted June 25, 2014 It's just one of those things, take a grand master and he ends up in CC with 2+ armour enemies making his sword/halberd useless., so next game you give him a hammer, which makes his high initiative useless and gets power fisted and dies right out.... (or a riptide blast ect).. So then you take draigo to negate insta death.... But then you're back to square 1..... Just a more survivable version of square 1 :-P Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/292314-draigo-question/page/2/#findComment-3728947 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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