Draigo question

[jeffersonian000]

Well the whole point behind Halberds is negated in 7th (ie, Force is a Psychic phase power now, rather than an Assault phase power), so you actually don't need to strike first most of the time these days. It's still good, and it can still ID early which is great, but it's not necessary.

 

One of the interesting "metas" of this forum is the "AP 4 Flamers are the best" while "AP3 Power Weapons are bad" view points. Cheap troops the die to a sneeze are preferred over robust troops that absorb a huge amount of damage before falling, because cheap is more resilient than expensive. You shoot the expensive to force saves, assault the cheap stuff because they die in droves. What makes this "meta" stupid is that we gear for Assaulting Elites and shooting Trash because "wisdom" says shooting Elites and charging Trash is best?!? It's totally backwards, because Maths!

 

According Mathhammer, you should never have to use AP2 CCWs in an Assault because you should only be Assaulting 4+ saves or worst. And those 2++ save Melee Deathstars? Lots and lots of cheap AP- shooting attacks!

 

All this means Halberds should be your go-to NFW, because if you follow Maths, you will never need to melee 2+ save Elites, and Daemonhammers are our version of the Melta Bomb, to be used on MCs and vehicles.

 

Except ...

 

Hammers are our best practical NFW in 7th, because we will need to use them. And Swords are our Storm Shields, which offers a better save versus the AP2 CCW "meta" seem on the forums. Halberds are now being edged out in favor of Hammers and Swords.

 

In the end, as was true before, taking a reasonable mix of Halberds, Hammers, and Swords makes the best sense. And with that in mind, your GM should be armed with the NFW that best meets the needs of the unit the GM will be attached to. I like using Mordrak, and he has a Hammer. Draigo has a Storm Shield and a Force Sword. A GM with a Nemesis Force Sword can Tank in melee with a 3++ save ... does he really need an AP2 CCW?

 

SJ

[Gentlemanloser]

Heavy Incinerators are great.  Possible the best *killing* Shooting Weapon we have in the Codex (while the Psycannons wins best all round, or best overall).

 

AP4 or not.

 

It's the Torrent Template coupled with S6 that does it.

 

The only problem we have is *very* limited availability, and the chassis that can take it.

 

AP3 Power Weapons are bad, becuase the AP3+ units have been roasted to a crisp by our Torrent Heavy Incinerators.  We need the AP2 Melee Weapons to take out TDA, as we don't have (great/good/non henchmen) access to AP2+ shooting.

 

As for lots of AP- shots.

 

Obviously. ;)

 

When you're rellying on forcing many many saves to kill a durable unit, do you want 2 shots at 40 points, or 16?  (Terminator versus Bolter Acolyte in Rapid Fire range)

[Quozzo]

Well the whole point behind Halberds is negated in 7th (ie, Force is a Psychic phase power now, rather than an Assault phase power), so you actually don't need to strike first most of the time these days. It's still good, and it can still ID early which is great, but it's not necessary.

I never got that to begin with. You have ID whenever you land a blow if you successfully activated the weapons, why the need to activate them at initiative step 6 for a hammer in initiative step 1?

[Gentlemanloser]

Wierd activation wording.

 

That activated *after* a sucessful wound.  If all your wounds are I1, you could never activate them.

 

But that's gone now.

 

But I never thought that was the reasonf or Halberds, you could do the same with some Swords.

 

Halberd are there to make sure Marines can't attack back (especially the old I5 Furios Charge ones), and to make Eldar/Dark Eldar players weep ith Jealousy.

 

Then they look at thier Phoenix Lords.  And look at our Assassins. ;)

 

Tears.  Sweet sweet tears.

[Reclusiarch Darius]

Halberds are still very relevant. On PA infantry, going first is huge. On TDA, I'd see an argument for swords (especially if you can stack with PFG or 'Forewarning' etc), but on PA swapping for halberds is your go-to choice. Hammers should be mixed in but only 1-5 ratio, anymore and you're dying before you can swing. 

 

I agree with shooting 2+ saves over charging them. 2+ armour in melee is a huge advantage, whereas at range 2+ armour can be more easily negated. Not to mention in melee, only the units in that swirling mess can attack eachother, whereas with shooting you're free to dump your entire army into one target if need be.