Remember Native American-themed Dark Angels?

[b1soul]

Are these guys still in the fluff or have they gone the way of the Squats?

 

EDIT: Sorry, I believe this should be in the Dark Angels forum 

[Dark Bjoern]

During the HH the DA recruted only from Caliban. After the loose of their homeworld they started to recrute from different worlds. And one of them was a world with an american native background. But GW did no longer mentioned it. Maybe it´s politically incorrect? Who knows!

[Phoebus]

This should be in the Dark Angels forum, as the "Plains World" theme was definitely post-Heresy.

 

Originally, in the era of the "Space Hulk" game and the "Deathwing" anthology, it was heavily implied that the Dark Angels recruited largely from a single planet.  This planet, as you might guess, invested as heavily in the "Native American" theme as the Space Wolves did in the "Vikings in Space" theme around the same era.

 

The reason why that world isn't mentioned much anymore may very well have to do with marketing and design, but there was a solid in-story reason as well:  the iconic short story, "Deathwing" details how Genestealers got to the Plains World, subverted the tribal culture, brought all of the people into a dystopian city, and slowly corrupted them.  Some of the Dark Angels First Company later returned to the Plains World to recruit new aspirants.  Having discovered what happened, they destroyed the Genestealers, though they lost all but six (edited; I kept thinking of just Cloud Runner and Lame Bear, but there were four other survivors) of their number in the process.  When the Dark Angels returned, one of the survivors, "Cloud Runner", stated their intent to bring back the tribal ways of the people - but admitted it would take generations for them to do so.

 

It was during this campaign that the custom of painting the Terminator armour bone-white became a custom.  At the time of that story's publication, "Deathwing" was a term with origins from that Plains World.

 

What happened to that planet?  Well, one can assume that it never became the central hub of Dark Angels recruitment.  Certainly other novels (Angels of Darkness, Ravenwing) and Codices mentioned at least three other worlds.  The Plains World was never seriously  mentioned again until the latest Codex, which offered that the story of the Plains World may be nothing more than an allegorical legend that is meant to parallel the betrayal the Dark Angels faced upon returning to Caliban.  And The Unforgiven Empire, which is set in the Horus Heresy, certainly implies "Deathwing" is a term that predates the Plains World.

[Brother-Chaplain Kage]

I try not to remember it. I never cared for the feathers on the DAs, or any other figure with single feather tacked on at random (looking at you, Vostroyans).

[b1soul]

 

The reason why that world isn't mentioned much anymore may very well have to do with marketing and design

 

Yes indeed. A secretive order or monastic knights (with a clearly Medieval European knightly aesthetic and culture) does not mesh with North American Plains Indians  

[Hyaenidae]

Taa Daa. Moved.

=][=

[DAG42]

While the "Plains World " is good read, I agree with what's been said previously. It doesn't really fit the Knightly order theme.

[IanSturrock]

For me it fits OK, as another element that has gone in to DA culture over the thousands of years the Chapter has been in existence in one form or another.

 

Individual players can use as much of that culture as they like, in their own DA fluff and paint schemes, or as little (even down to it just being allegory).

I love the 'dead men walking' aspect of Deathwing, personally, being an old school Space Hulk fan. :) I think it meshes fine to have older, tribal cultures in a knightly order, too. Bear in mind that a lot of the themes in medieval Arthurian literature are drawn from earlier, pagan Celtic legends -- Gawain & the Green Knight is especially full of those themes, but even the Holy Grail is at least somewhat based on the Irish concept of the Cauldron of Rebirth.

[tdemayo]

The newer plastics still have feathers on the Deathwing bits, like the assault cannon (iirc). So it's not entirely forgotten.

[Pbenner]

Hell, even the back story behind Bone White (Ash White) has a native american feel to it.  

 

It's still there, but only for those of us that choose to acknowledge it.  

 

Paul

[Gillyfish]

I agree with tdemayo. The Native American theme is still apparent, but is limited. It's there in feathers on the Deathwing, characters and (arguably) on Ravenwing back-banners and the helmet crests of some characters. I would also add it to personal heraldry for a character model. For example, I have a cloud and lightning bolt motif on the leg of one of my dreadnoughts to denote that they originated from the Plains World.

 

So it's now a secondary theme rather than primary one.

[Phoebus]

I personally don't have much of a problem with the Plains World theme.  I just prefer that it be an addition to the primary, "Legacy of Caliban", theme.  I will admit that I found it very off-putting when old Dark Angels artwork from the Space Hulk era predominately featured Native American artwork for the Terminators' heraldry.  I think it's more apropos in the way we see certain totems or fetishes as accompaniments to their panoply.

 

What I think should be acknowledged is that the Dark Angels background has moved on in the sense that the Chapter and its members hardly remember their homeworlds - much less maintain emotional and cultural connections to them.  That is to say, any Dark Angel would fight as much as Cloud Runner did to destroy a Genestealer infestation on a Chapter recruiting world, but I sincerely doubt they would feel as one of the people they were trying to save.

 

Now, you can argue that this is due to the Deathwing story being allegorical to begin with (and The Unremembered Empire implies that, even if the story wasn't a "tall tale", the term "Deathwing" predates the Plains World by some time).  Or, you can argue that the events described in "Deathwing" led the Chapter to change its recruitment practices and indoctrination  rituals to ensure its battle-brothers never felt an allegiance to their home-world that could trump their bond to the Dark Angels.  Remember, when the Chapter arrives on the Plains World to find Cloud Runner, it is implied that his decision was not only not sanctioned but that the absence of the Terminators cost the Dark Angels in some other campaign.

Either way, pending another change in the background, I think it's safe to say that the dominant "culture" among the Dark Angels is that which is represented by the evolution of the Order of Caliban and the changes the Inner Circle wrought on it.

[Cloud Runner]

I think it's an ace story(checks user name ;)), and a shame it's taking more of a back burner these days. 

 

Personally, I love the knightly feel and think it fits better with the heresy era, but I do like to throw the odd nod in such as feathers and the split heraldry as seen in the original space hulk game. 

 

And of course, we will always be remembered by the white colour of our terminators. 

[Aegnor]

To me it works equally fine as a secondary theme, or as the allegorical tale they tell new recruits to explain why the Deathwing has different heraldry and what those symbols mean.

[Dark_Master]

The Deathwing novel and Spacehulk supplement were what got me onto Dark Angels all those years ago. Upto then I'd been playing Blood Angels.

 

The fact that they started taking recruits from many worlds would in itself explain the reduction in feathers and such.

 

DM

[Zebukkuk]

You may want to reread the story! It's quite clear that the Deathwing name didn't originate on that Feral World. It also mentions that the Deathwing wore black armour when they arrived, prior to the discovery of the Genestealer coven and the repainting ceremony.

 

The tribes just used the word Deathwing to refer to the Angel of Death himself, and they also applied the name to the Thunderhawk Gunship that landed on the hill to meet worthy aspirants.

 

Anyway, I don't understand why some people think history applies to a setting 40,000 years in the future. At that point everyone would have completely forgotten both Middle Ages Europe and Tribal North America. If the gothic knights of the 41st millenium want to decorate their weapons with feathers there's nothing you can do to stop it (other than chopping the feathers off of your models-- if you don't like feathers or Native Americans, that's another subject).

 

 

This should be in the Dark Angels forum, as the "Plains World" theme was definitely post-Heresy.

 

Originally, in the era of the "Space Hulk" game and the "Deathwing" anthology, it was heavily implied that the Dark Angels recruited largely from a single planet. This planet, as you might guess, invested as heavily in the "Native American" theme as the Space Wolves did in the "Vikings in Space" theme around the same era.

 

The reason why that world isn't mentioned much anymore may very well have to do with marketing and design, but there was a solid in-story reason as well: the iconic short story, "Deathwing" details how Genestealers got to the Plains World, subverted the tribal culture, brought all of the people into a dystopian city, and slowly corrupted them. Some of the Dark Angels First Company later returned to the Plains World to recruit new aspirants. Having discovered what happened, they destroyed the Genestealers, though they lost all but two of their number in the process. When the Dark Angels returned, one of the survivors, "Cloud Runner", stated their intent to bring back the tribal ways of the people - but admitted it would take generations for them to do so.

 

It was during this campaign that the custom of painting the Terminator armour bone-white became a custom. At the time of that story's publication, "Deathwing" was a term with origins from that Plains World.

 

What happened to that planet? Well, one can assume that it never became the central hub of Dark Angels recruitment. Certainly other novels (Angels of Darkness, Ravenwing) and Codices mentioned at least three other worlds. The Plains World was never seriously mentioned again until the latest Codex, which offered that the story of the Plains World may be nothing more than an allegorical legend that is meant to parallel the betrayal the Dark Angels faced upon returning to Caliban. And The Unforgiven Empire, which is set in the Horus Heresy, certainly implies "Deathwing" is a term that predates the Plains World.

[Spinsanity]

I had long been under the impression the actual events had never occured... The story shares too many similarities with the events that led to the destruction of Caliban, a story which can be told to recruits and other brothers that have not yet been initiated into the older secrets of the chapter as a sort of test : who amongst these brothers will pierce the veil and figure out the truth, and then be worthy of further induction into the deeper mysteries of our Legion Chapter?

 

That was my reading, of course, everyone iis free to read it as they will ;)

[Brother dean]

Well back in the 90s it was all the background we had, so yes, it really happened for us old timers.  It was originally published in the Deathwing Expansion for Space Hulk IIRC.

[Bryan Blaire]

Ah, Brother dean, we are but initiates along the path to the Deathwing though...

 

I.E. GW can keep telling us stories and we'll keep buying the new one because we are Dark Angels and want to know more secrets and truths. :D

[GreyCrow]

I've always felt the feathers referred more to the term "Angels" rather than any native american apparatus :p

[Brother_Bethor]

I really like the Native American theme in Dark Angels. To the point that I'm currently painting a Deathwing Knights' Knight Master and a sergeant for terminator squad with Indian heads. To me, it oozes with Warhammer 40k feel: sci-fi shock troops, that look like medieval knights, and beneath that armour there is a red skin warrior.

Dark Angels recruit from different planets and cultures (weren't the Azrael from a head-hunting tribe?) and to reflect that I'm going to paint my sniper scouts with various skin tones (of course, with few mandatory Native American heads :D).

I'm sorry for my mumbling: my language skill are somewhat rusty (and I'm mostly a lurker these days).

[Isiah]

In truth I've never really been sold the Native American slant for the DA - but I guess at the time GW needed a 'theme' to base the visuals of the Chapter around and that was as good as any.

 

~ I

[Bryan Blaire]

Aside from the fact that calling it the "Native American theme" being very stereotypical and pretty untrue, there were just as many Native American tribes that didn't use all the big feathers, etc.

 

It's a "Plains tribal" theme with feathers, not Native American.

 

And pretty far out there really, as themes go, because you are stacking the unlikelihood that an entire planet has a largely similar climate all over as well as the fact that all the peoples there had the exact same cultural life style, even with reduced communication access to less than we have now (look at how many cultures we have while still having more communication methods than seemed available in Deathwing).

 

GW could definitely have expanded the tribal theming around the DA, but they have shifted that to other Legions that needed more definition.

[Phoebus]

You may want to reread the story! It's quite clear that the Deathwing name didn't originate on that Feral World.

I'm curious about your opinion. The way I read it, every instance of "Deathwing" in this short story is spoken of in the context of the culture of the natives of the recruiting world. While the Thunderhawk Cloud Runner & co. arrive on is also named "Deathwing", no indication is given that the term predates the planet. It's used in the same context as when the Dark Angels calling Two Heads Talking "lord shaman". Both are just among the many terms and concepts the Dark Angels apparently inherited from Cloud Runner's homeworld.

Don't get me wrong, I have no problem accepting the idea that much of the culture and the terminology used by the people of this world could have been shaped by the Dark Angels. That's an exercise at reconciling this story with books written later on, which clearly date "Deathwing" to the Great Crusade.

It also mentions that the Deathwing wore black armour when they arrived, prior to the discovery of the Genestealer coven and the repainting ceremony.

That's exactly what I said: that this was the campaign during which the First Company first painted their armor white.

Where the theme itself is concerned, again, I'm not too worried about it. I struggle to see how it can be prominent any longer, given the many books and stories that point to the active suppression of just that sort of cultural influence by the Dark Angels... but every person has the right to do what they want with their army.

I do share Bryan's issues when it comes to planets with largely homogeneous cultures and societies. Granted, not all the tribes appeared to be the same (plains people, hill-dwellers, etc.), but the end result was the same: a very overt "North American Tribes in Space" concept. I didn't like it when Chogoris was "China and Mongolia in Space", I didn't like it when Macragge was "Rome and Greece in Space" (whose sole "non-standard" society was named directly after precisely the same kingdom that featured in Greek and Roman histories), and I don't like it here, either.

[Brother dean]

I believe that the Deathwing was mentioned in "The Unremembered Empire" along the Dreadwing and another wing which I cannot remember right now.  

 

Can we agree that Unremembered Empire predates the DA recruiting from Plains World?