Remember Native American-themed Dark Angels?

[Cactus]

I agree that it probably does. Several legions (eg World Eaters) recruited from multiple worlds during the Great Crusade.

[Brother dean]

Also, there is no guarantee that some other writer wont invalidate Abnett's take on the Wing setup he built in Unremembered Empire...

[Master Sheol]

All the famous companies of the DA are known as WINGS... Ravenwing, Deathwing, Dreadwing, Ironwing

 

Now the name Dark Angels comes from mythological Creatures from the stories of caliban...

 

We can assume that the names Deathwing, Dreadwing and so on are the names of each of these Dark Angels...

[Phoebus]

I believe that the Deathwing was mentioned in "The Unremembered Empire" along the Dreadwing and another wing which I cannot remember right now.  

 

Can we agree that Unremembered Empire predates the DA recruiting from Plains World?

 

It's more than that.  "Deathwings" - as in, creatures - are mentioned in Descent of Angels:

 

 

“As part of that same training he had stalked many of the predators that lurked in the forests, including cavebears, swordtooths, deathwings and raptors.”

 

Excerpt From: Mitchel Scanlon. “Descent of Angels.” iBooks. 

 

There are two most logical ways (in my eyes, at any rate) to reconcile Descent of Angels, The Unremembered Empire, and "Deathwing":

 

1. The Dark Angels named one of their fighting formations after a Calibanite predator, much like they apparently carried over the names of specialized formations of the Order (see: Ravenwing, in "Call of the Lion").  Later, when they began to heavily (exclusively?) recruit from the world shown in "Deathwing", they heavily influenced the culture of its inhabitants (hence the migration of terms like deathwing) just as they were in turn influenced by the culture of their aspirants.

 

2. Everything in #1 applies, except the story is more or less allegory taught to aspirants and Scouts as part of the Chapter's cult indoctrination.

 

Either way, nothing in the story itself seems to indicate deathwing the term predating the world from which the Dark Angels recruit in "Deathwing" the short story.

 

Personally, I lean toward #2 because of what we see in Codex: Angels of Death.  The Deathwing's entry there heavily implies that the First Company was renamed earned that title as a consequence of Cloud Runner's fight against the Genestealers.  Unless the Deathwing formation from The Unremembered Empire was disbanded following the Heresy, then that novel more or less retcons Codex: Angels of Death.

 

And that, honestly, would make sense.  Background material changes.  It's no big deal.  Cloud Runner (Ezekiel, though obviously not our Chief Librarian) is referred to as a Captain, not as a Master.  His Terminator armour has a "power glove" with digital weapons.  So on, so forth.  The origins of the Deathwing (as a fighting formation) changing is not really that big a deal.

 

Here's a question for the more senior members of the Inner Circle:  was Space Hulk the game (with its depictions of North American tribal themes on the Dark Angels) informed by "Deathwing", or was it vice-versa?

[Phoebus]

Master Sheol,

 

Don't forget about the Stormwing.  :)

[Brother dean]

Ah!  Stormwing is the one with Breaching Shields...  couldnt remember the name...

[Phoebus]

“It was an assault squad of Dark Angels, warriors wearing the marks of the Stormwing, braced with boarding shields.”

 

Excerpt From: Abnett, Dan. “The Unremembered Empire.” Black Library, 2013-09. iBooks.

This material may be protected by copyright.

So tantalizingly little information. :)

[Cloud Runner]

@Phobeus re the original space hulk.

 

Firstly there was Space Hulk featuring Blood Angels aboard the hulk Sin of Damnation iirc.

 

Then came the expansion Deathwing which featured the story throughout the rulebook. In fact, the first installment was the first part of the booklet! 

 

I think the story was written alongside the rules and helped build some background for the solo play campaign. 

 

We were also blessed with a number of illustrations and examples of the heraldry and tribal markings, including not one, but two depictions of Deathwing. 

 

You have of course Deathwing the terminator company which was a simple broken sword idea with stick figure wings.

 

But you also had Deathwing, the emperors steed, whose mighty pinions would be heard to carry souls into his eternal service. 

 

 

 

Another interesting thing from the expansion is the origin of the Deathwing banner, which used to be carried by every squad as a mark of remembrance. 

 

The angel with the broken sword is Two Heads Talking after he had been beaten and broken. In the story he touches the minds of his fellow warriors, and calls down their vengeance. 

 

This is symbolised on the banner as the lightning strike that is destroying the city that the stealer cult had built to enslave the people. 

 

 

 

 

For me, it was the starting point of my love affair with the Dark Angels (even forming the basis for part of music gcse practical work) and it's a rich part of the heritage of the army.

 

I would encourage everyone to read it, and to not worry about what is and isn't canon or what contradicts what.

 

Ultimately they are your toys and you can work whatever background you want to go with. 

 

Perhaps you might even have a 34k army which leads up to plains world story (just picking a random millennium btw)

[Phoebus]

I purchased "The Book of the Lion", which includes the symbols you mentioned AND a rather well done comic book version of the "Deathwing" short story.

 

Thanks for the background, Cloud Runner!  How apropos that it would be you that would confirm this for me!  :)

[Bryan Blaire]

It's easy to see why the story could be used as an allegorical tale, rather than something that actually occurred.

[march10k]

Ahem....having been born dead-center in North America, I am a native American.  "Native American" is a (admittedly universal) misnomer.  Indigenous American is technically correct.  Hey, change has to start somewhere!

[Phoebus]

It works well that way since it hits on the key themes without even really hinting at the real reasons for Caliban's destruction.

[Cloud Runner]

Though the key differences are:

 

1. The plains planet was enslaved, and didn't turn on their brothers. 

 

2. The plains planet was not destroyed, unlike Caliban. 

 

3. Gabriel and the 'current' Deathwing of the time appeared after a long incursion of orks. 

 

 

 

Man, I know that story far too well at this time of night! 

[Bryan Blaire]

It's a symbology thing, an extended metaphor, the actual specifics don't have to match up in an allegory. It doesn't matter if there are key differences, especially if this is one of the first stories told to newly minted DAs, because they don't want to actually give these new Marines pieces of the real story, they just want them to hear (and internalize) the ideas and values the story represents.

 

Also, one could argue that the world is as good as destroyed if the Dark Angels won't recruit, gather supplies, or get anything else of value from the world any more.

 

Again, it's a perfect introductory allegorical tale.

[Grimm Blade]

Great conversation! Any speculations why the Dark Angels (more specifically Deathwing) have different coloured armour.

[Phoebus]

"Deathwing" explains that:  the Terminators who fought the genestealers changed the color of their armour as part of tribal ritual.  The new color was kept as tribute to their sacrifice.

Now, as to why the First Company had black Terminator armour before?  I imagine for the same reason the Ravenwing does:  the black is symbolic of the fact that they know about the betrayal of the Fallen and of the true fate of the original Legion.  That's just conjecture on my part, though.  At least two other Chapters (the Angels of Vengeance and the Consecrators) wear black power armour by default.

[Azoriel]

Allow me to dredge up issue #233 (UK) of White Dwarf, the same one which featured "The Lion and the Wolf" in its entirety, which was printed in June of 1999 (around the same time as the 3rd Edition DA Codex).

Following the terrible blow of the Warmaster's treason, the history becomes confused and obscure. It is thought that Jonson survived the Heresy but of his fate immediately after, nothing is known for sure - although rumor and speculation are rife. Some sources have it that Jonson was killed in battle with a monster of the warp on his way ack to the Dark Angels' home world of Caliban. It seems more likely however that he was caught up in the still unexplained destruction of Caliban itself. A recurring legend has it that Jonson still roams the Galaxy, searching for some unknown enemy. The enemy may be alluded to obliquely in the annals of the Dark Angels themselves.

[cropping out a bunch of paragraphs not relevant to the topic]

While the Codex prescribed colour for the Chapter's armor is dark green, the first two Companies do not use it. The Deathwing wear bone white armor, harking back to a tradition from their original homeworld, while the Ravenwing wear unrelieved black armor, echoing their namesake, a legendary bird from the writings of an ancient Terran scribe named Id'garr Alunpo. Both these Companies also wear a modified version of the Chapter Symbol, further breaking with tradition.

Now, this was written after Deathwing (with that short story clearly in mind). Coupled with the prologue to Deathwing (which I'm not sure was in the original printing), that would strongly suggest (at least to me) that the Plains World story is indeed allegory and that the Deathwing tradition is linked to some tradition started on Caliban - more than likely either the Fall of Caliban or the death of Lion El'Jonson. (Could it be a color of mourning for their lost homeworld and/or primarch? Could it be the color the TDA suits were turned that survived the explosion of their homeworld?) Given that the Dark Angels often recruit from feral cultures now, I could see the original story being sanitized and reformated to something more digestible to their newer recruits, who may find Caliban's semi-feudal culture more difficult to relate to. (This would of course be knowing retcon, and is in no way intended to invalidate the Dark Angel's previous history associated with Plainsworld, aka Delahon.)

Back to your querry, there's a direct explanation for why the Ravenwing are named as they are, which was something more than likely established in the Rogue Trader era (given the goofiness of the author name). Of course, this, as well as my earlier thoughts on the Deathwing, may be completely irrelevant now, as the source is over a decade old at this point, so may be rectonned and/or ignored by future sources.

Another tidbit from Codex: Angels of Death (2nd Edition)-

ANGELS OF VENGEANCE

This chapter has retained the traditional black armour of the original Dark Angels Legion. The First Company wears black Terminator armour and the monkish robes of the Inner Circle are jet-black.

The Angels of Vengeance are also noted for being exceptionally stubborn, even more so than your standard Dark Angel. My pet theory: the Angels of Vengeance stayed jet black because they were too stubborn to give up their old colors! Of course, this doesn't explain the color scheme of the Consecrators, who even go so far as to paint red stripes on their helmets - an old tradition even the Angels of Vengeance don't follow - nor does it offer an alternative explanation as to why the Ravenwing are also black.

Edit: "morning" and "mourning" are two entirely different things. =(

[Brother dean]

Some say Ravenwing was a formation of The Order of all mounted knights..   Descent of Angels lays this out but then all the knights have a destrider so that bit out of that poorly written book doesnt distinguish the difference between the Ravenwing and normal knights.

 

Well our name came from a poem, the Ravenwing name came from a poem..  Apparently we are the Dead Poets Society. 

[Azoriel]

From Descent of Angels:

Like their riders, each horse was young and had much to learn, on their way to becoming the famed mounts of the Ravenwing cavalry. The knights of the Ravenwing rode like daring heroes of old, leading exponents of lightning warfare and hit and run charges, they were masters of the wilderness.

They could survive for months alone in the deadly forests of Caliban, heroic figures in matt black armour and winged helms that concealed the identity of each warrior.

To be one of the Ravenwing was to live a lonely life, but one of heart-stopping adventure and glory.

 

So it's assumed that most (if not all) of the knights of Caliban ride, but the Ravenwing are specialists at it (particularly in being outriders rather than just shock cavalry).

 

Also, from the short story "The Call of the Lion" (from the Tales of Heresy anthology):
 

'What’s that?’ Astelan asked, pointing to a heraldic symbol on Belath’s right shoulder plate, where normally a Space Marine’s organisational and rank markings would be painted. It was decorated with a quartered shield, white and blue, emblazoned with a sword held in the grip of a taloned foot.

‘That is the symbol of my order,’ replied Belath, somewhat taken aback. ‘The Order of the Raven’s Wing.’

 

Astelan turned an inquiring look to Galedan.

 

‘One of the knightly orders,’ the captain said. ‘A Calibanite rank badge.'

 

 

"Order of the Raven's Wing" could be the long way of saying Ravenwing, like how Knights Templar was short for "The Knights of the Order of the Temple of St. John".  I do wish that they gave some more background info, though - was the Ravenwing an order of knights independent of the Order (with a capital O) at one point?  (I'm sure it was - though this is never stated outright.)  =(

[Zebukkuk]

I do share Bryan's issues when it comes to planets with largely homogeneous cultures and societies. Granted, not all the tribes appeared to be the same (plains people, hill-dwellers, etc.), but the end result was the same: a very overt "North American Tribes in Space" concept. I didn't like it when Chogoris was "China and Mongolia in Space", I didn't like it when Macragge was "Rome and Greece in Space" (whose sole "non-standard" society was named directly after precisely the same kingdom that featured in Greek and Roman histories), and I don't like it here, either.

Fully agreed on that point. It's oversimplification for the sake of brevity. Who knows, maybe the feral world Cloudrunner came from had hundreds of different cultures. We just don't get that level of detail because William King had to focus our attention on one specific event that happened to only one group of tribes.

 

Many other facets of 40k suffer from the same sweeping simplicity strokes though... surely there must be some things in the galaxy that can't be summed up in one or two sentences, such as "...the World Eaters arrived and conquered the hive world of Belistran VIII..." Those sound-bite news room phrases really annoy me in the fiction.

 

Another interesting thing from the expansion is the origin of the Deathwing banner, which used to be carried by every squad as a mark of remembrance.

 

The angel with the broken sword is Two Heads Talking after he had been beaten and broken. In the story he touches the minds of his fellow warriors, and calls down their vengeance.

Ah yes, the Deathwing Company banner. I love how the Dark Angels banners always look a bit like tarot cards... Emperor's Tarot anyone?

 

My personal take on the Deathwing Company banner:

 

The fallen angel is Luther. The lightning bolt striking the tower represents Lion El'Jonson's vindictive orbital bombardment of Caliban which apparently made the planet's tectonic plates unstable, and ironically paved the way for its complete destruction.

 

The broken sword represents the Fallen Dark Angels' breach of trust with the Emperor and Jonson by following Luther into heresy. It may also be an artistic representation of the literal broken sword Cypher is trying to carry back to Terra on his mysterious errand!

 

That's the thing about allegories and cover stories. Both the Two Heads Talking / Cloudrunner story and the Fall of Caliban story may be true, but one is used as a mask for the other. Only fully initiated Deathwing brethren would know what their Company Banner truly represents. Others in the chapter would get the Two Heads Talking explanation if they dared to ask.

 

This explanation also makes the broken sword motif far more poignant. By wearing this emblem the Deathwing brethren identify themselves as brothers to the Fallen Dark Angels, those who followed he who bore the broken sword (Luther). When they hunt the Fallen they do so bearing the full weight of shame that terrible knowledge demands.

 

Going back to the Plains Indian theme, maybe the Dark Angels encourage some of the brethren to wear their native garb on occasion? If there is any chapter that doesn't want anyone to know who they really are, it's the Dark Angels. Feral world emblems and totems etc. could serve to confuse outside observers as to where the chapter really comes from.

 

Slight tangent here too: There may have been knights that adorned themselves with feathers in history. There is good evidence that Prince Madoc of Wales sailed to North America around 1000 AD, arriving at Mobile Bay (Alabama) and making his way with a band of followers all the way to what was later called Tennessee (possibly the builders of Old Stone Fort in Manchester on the Duck River) and later Kentucky. The Welsh culture would have been mixed away and eventually forgotten but for a time there was probably a group of Welsh warriors who adopted some of the ways of the tribes. Incidentally this also explains why some of the Native American tribes knew the Welsh language. Again, slight tangent but I thought it would be worth mentioning.

[Philby]

well I for one remember it quite fondly as it was one of the first things that got me into Dark Angels :) I used to have a scanned copy of the old story somewhere, dunno where it is now...