Wokeg Posted June 12, 2014 Share Posted June 12, 2014 Hello again and thanks in advance My friend usually plays a khorn bezerker army led by Khârn and plays by charging them into my lines ASAP with rhinos I play more of a uncoordinated gun line (at this point I should say neither of us play "competitive" lists) I've recently purchased lucius to complete the big 5 chaos guys and knowing close combat is inevitable (as my roles are dreadful) His Khârn will generally be targeted at my hq (especially if it is Slaanesh) My question is would lucius beat Khârn in a duel? And would it be worth putting him into a cc squad of chosen with power swords/lightning claws and MoS to hopefully smash his bezerkers, on paper it seems like it would work especially with the lightning claws A3/4 with shred at I5 and ap3 should kill a lot of bezerkers but as my experience isn't great do you guys think it will work? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CoffeeGrunt Posted June 12, 2014 Share Posted June 12, 2014 This feels a bit like Batman vs Superman, but I'll bite. Khârn isn't as great if he doesn't get the Charge. Rage and Furious Charge turn him into a monstrosity that will likely tear Lucius a new one. I'm unsure what their respective Initiative values are, but I imagine that they're close. Lucius will get a lot of attacks due to Khârn's high WS, and so it'll be a game of who hits first and hits hard. Lucius has an Invuln save of 5++ while Khârn does not, IIRC. I think he may get a 4++, but I can't remember as I rarely see him played. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
minigun762 Posted June 12, 2014 Share Posted June 12, 2014 Pretty sure I've math hammered this once and Lucius wins due to higher I value and neither side having a 2+ save. It's close though so it would be a fun match to watch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prodigal Son of Magnus Posted June 12, 2014 Share Posted June 12, 2014 It basically comes down to if Khârn kills Lucius in 1 turn which he is very capable of doing but if he dosent Lucius will kill him next round Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dallas Drake Posted June 12, 2014 Share Posted June 12, 2014 Let him drive his rhinos up & when he gets out & spends a turn standing there not charging (due to Rhinos being meh for assault units) charge him with your higher initiative & deny him his furious charge. Lucius in a squad of Noise Marines with +1 CCW & a Doom Siren/power sword champ will be better than Chosen. Dallas Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trevak Dal Posted June 12, 2014 Share Posted June 12, 2014 It goes down like this... Lucius runs his scarred tongue across the sword that had turned his Primarch to the joys of the Prince of Pleasures as he eyes his enemy, "We always knew it would come down to this...I looked for you at Skalathrax...bravo with that " swinging his weapon into an en guard stance. The hulking beserker growls out an animalistic snarl, his Kill-counter blinking having not updated in several seconds his bare left arm and his armored chest slicked with gore and ichor from several slaaneshi deviants and those of his own who had foolishly gotten between Khârn and his foes, his wrists spamming as the pain started to press into his mind, his lips twisting as he tried to focus on the shifting, screaming faces on Lucius' armor, "Lucy, you got some 'splaining to do," Khârn muttered, chuckling as he gunned Gorechild bellowing his challenge as he thunders forward, his plasma pistol leading the way, "BLOOD FOR THE BLOOD GOD!" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deadman Wade Posted June 12, 2014 Share Posted June 12, 2014 I'd bet on Khârn, but he's actually the best opponent for Lucius - lower initiative, high weapon skill (which gives Lucius 7 attacks), low armor and invulnerable save. But Khârn has 6 attacks on charge, hitting on 2+ with re-rolls and wounding on 2+, so Lucius most likely will go down, as he won't be able to cause 3 unsaved wounds hitting on 4+ and wounding on 4+. Lucius can burn Khârn's unit quite good with doom siren though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Forté Posted June 12, 2014 Share Posted June 12, 2014 Tough one with Lucius reducing Khârn's attacks by 1 and causing a S4AP2 hit for every save he makes. That and going first. If Lucius can kill him in one go then it's done with. If not, then I couldn't call it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slave to Darkness Posted June 12, 2014 Share Posted June 12, 2014 dice hammer!!!!!!!!!!! *runs for dice box* Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Urauloth Posted June 12, 2014 Share Posted June 12, 2014 The problem with your proposed chosen unit is the assumption that they'd actually get into combat with the berzerkers in the first place - I can't see many people charging power armour into a wall of i5 ap3 attacks, and chosen aren't incredibly hard to shoot apart. 7 attacks at a higher initiative step, ignoring Khârn's armour and rerolling wounds? Yeah, Lucius has the advantage to begin with and definitely wins in the second round - Khârn has to survive those 7 attacks and dismemberthe lil' creep in one round, with one less attack than usual. Obviously, for this, he has to charge, but Khârn relies on charging anyway (ironic, given how we don't have assault vehicles and all) Mathhammer: Lucius defending vs Khârn: 7 attacks / 3.5 hits / 2.62 wounds / 1.75 unsaved wounds Khârn charging Lucius: 5 attacks hitting and wounding on 2+ against a 5++ but work this out yourself because the mathhammer app i have refuses to hit input below 3 :p (it should be something like 2.6 unsaved wounds? Khârn has a good chance of killing Lucius in one round) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
minigun762 Posted June 12, 2014 Share Posted June 12, 2014 2.77 wounds to Lucius but at least one saved wound against his armor will bite back at Khârn. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
khurdur Posted June 12, 2014 Share Posted June 12, 2014 doesn't Khârn have 4+1 attacks for pistol, and +2 for rage? thats 7 hitiing on a 2+ with a re-roll. Lucius is at 7 hitting on a 4+, wounding on a 4+ with a re-roll. SO Luci would do 2.6 wounds. It [ossible lucius will get him first. If Khârn survives, he will hit with 6 attacks (he's at -1) hittinh on 2s, wounding on 2s. he'll likely obliterate lucius. But, if Khârn isn't in a raider and doest charge, lucius ought to take him down. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Urauloth Posted June 13, 2014 Share Posted June 13, 2014 doesn't Khârn have 4+1 attacks for pistol, and +2 for rage? errrr yes. Yes he does. For some reason I can never, ever remember that his axe isn't unwieldy. Don't forget that he suffers -1 attack for being in combat with Lucius, though, so in fact he has 6 total. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
khurdur Posted June 13, 2014 Share Posted June 13, 2014 I do believe the prissy slaanesh swordsmen might actually kill him off the bat at the 6 initi step.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Forté Posted June 13, 2014 Share Posted June 13, 2014 I do believe the prissy slaanesh swordsmen might actually kill him off the bat at the 6 initi step.... He'd need to. Would be a fun match every time though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Emperors Immortals Posted June 13, 2014 Share Posted June 13, 2014 I had a free evening and those models, so of course I spent 4 hours running the scenario :D I have Khârn winning 2 rounds to 1 for Lucius. The Beserkers and the Chosen seemed to come out pretty even, but a Noisemarine squad with siren and power weapon champ did indeed come out best. I honestly think it would just come down to the dice on the day most times. They both struggled against the IH murder bike though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deadman Wade Posted June 14, 2014 Share Posted June 14, 2014 IH chapter master costs about 80-90 pts more than Khârn or Lucius, so it's more appropriate to use Typhus, Abaddon or Daemon prince against him. I believe Typhus can take CM down, if he doesn't roll any 1s for daemon weapon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slayer le Boucher Posted June 15, 2014 Share Posted June 15, 2014 Have a Sorceror cast Endurance on Khârn+Chosens and add Cypher to the mix, watch the fun. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dam13n Posted June 15, 2014 Share Posted June 15, 2014 The thing is, these sort of match ups don't happen often and even more rarely on a fair footing. But in a one on one fight where both models are unwounded, using average based Mathammer: 1) Khârn gets the charge:Lucius, being I6, attacks first with 7 attacks. Hitting on 4+ and wounding on 4+ with shred = An average of 3.5 hits causing 2.625 wounds. Khârn has an Aura resulting in 1.75 unsaved wounds.Khârn, at I5, attacks next with 6 attacks. Hitting on a 2+ with hatred and wounding on a 2+ = An average of 5.833 hits causing 4.86 wounds. Lucius has a 5++ resulting in 3.2 unsaved wounds. So Lucius is dead... But, his armour inflicts 1.6 S4 AP2 hits on Khârn in the process. Thus causing an additional 0.54 unsaved wounds on Khârn. Khârn has therefore suffered 2.29 wounds. Not enough to kill him.Result - Khârn wins. 2) Lucius gets the charge:Lucius, at I6, attacks with 8 attacks. Hitting on a 4+ and wounding on a 4+ with shred = An average of 4 hits causing 3 wounds. Khârn's aura saves 1, leaving 2 unsaved wounds.Khârn, at I5, attacks with 5 attacks. Hitting on 2s with hatred and wounding on a 3+ = An average of 4.86 hits causing 3.24 wounds. Lucius' 5++ leaves 2.16 unsaved wounds. Lucius' armour deals 0.36 wounds back to Khârn this time.Result - Khârn 2.16 : 2.36 Lucius - so a marginal win for Lucius. However Lucius will deal 1.75 unsaved wounds to Khârn in the following combat phase, killing Khârn before he can strike again. On average then, Khârn just about comes out on top. But it's a close thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clone Posted June 15, 2014 Share Posted June 15, 2014 If Khârn won would he turn into lucius? Or would the blood god protect him? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dam13n Posted June 15, 2014 Share Posted June 15, 2014 In order to turn into Lucius he would have to take pride in defeating him. Chances are Khârn would neither know, nor care, that he'd killed Lucius. Lucius would just be another number in the kill counter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoLifeKing Posted June 15, 2014 Share Posted June 15, 2014 Hello again and thanks in advance My friend usually plays a khorn bezerker army led by Khârn and plays by charging them into my lines ASAP with rhinos I play more of a uncoordinated gun line (at this point I should say neither of us play "competitive" lists) I've recently purchased lucius to complete the big 5 chaos guys and knowing close combat is inevitable (as my roles are dreadful) His Khârn will generally be targeted at my hq (especially if it is Slaanesh) My question is would lucius beat Khârn in a duel? And would it be worth putting him into a cc squad of chosen with power swords/lightning claws and MoS to hopefully smash his bezerkers, on paper it seems like it would work especially with the lightning claws A3/4 with shred at I5 and ap3 should kill a lot of bezerkers but as my experience isn't great do you guys think it will work? Lucius will be victorious! Duelists pride and I6 will give him the advantage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slayer le Boucher Posted June 19, 2014 Share Posted June 19, 2014 If Khârn's doesn't get a +1 Init or a +1 save earlier on the table boons. Its pretty darn circumstancial to be unnoticed in this mathammer fest, but still, got on more then one occassions, Multi boons, +1save, FnP, and ID, or EW. or a +1S, the turn you charge with Khârn, you ignore the FNp from the Icon and Oneshot him, where he still needs to inflict you 3 wounds. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brother_contagion Posted June 19, 2014 Share Posted June 19, 2014 http://i3.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/original/000/757/498/89c.gif Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.