Dealing with MCs & Characters in 7th

[Grand Master Iapetus]

So with the proliferation of MCs in the last couple years, was musing on new solutions given 7th ed rules.  

 

Start with a GKGM+Daemonhammer+Hammerhand+Rad Grenades.  The Hammer of course doubles S to 8 and punches through armor saves at AP2.  With Hammerhand now +2S, and Rad Grenades having their -1T effect, it looks like he is hitting at S10 and instakilling anything T6 or lower (unless they have EW).

 

Thoughts on this combo ?

 

Any other interesting ideas on new ways to deal with MCs & Characters in 7th ?

[Grand Master Caloth]

Have been using it, ridiculously effective, since most MCs lack an invul

[Captain Coolpants]

Unless it's a stupid ass riptide with a 3+ invun! I hate riptides soooo much! Lol

So many low ap shots and pie plates. And by the time you finally get to it, they use their powers to increase their invun lol.

Any advice on dealing with these will help me loads!

[DinoDoc]

Unless it's a stupid ass riptide with a 3+ invun! I hate riptides soooo much! Lol

So many low ap shots and pie plates. And by the time you finally get to it, they use their powers to increase their invun lol.

Any advice on dealing with these will help me loads!

Kill the markerlights?

[jeffersonian000]

I welcome everytime they boost, because that's one more opportunity for them to lose wounds before I ever need to touch them. I've had opponents kill their Riptides for me, Tides are something I don't worry about anymore.

 

SJ

[IK Viper]

@Jbat360

 

Most players are getting away from the Shielded Missile Drones, but I would encourage you to NOT shoot any Riptides that have them if you are going to be able to assault.  The easiest way to kill a Riptide is to sweep it.  Any situation where you can drag it into a combat you can win is a good chance to do this.  Multi Assaults with Fire Warriors/ Kroot/ Pathfinders, or even Broadsides with lots of drones and Riptide can turn out really well for you.  Focus your attacks on the weaker stuff and sweep down the Riptide in combat res. 

 

If a Riptide has drones, don't shoot them as they are easier to put wounds through than a 3++ Riptide as they only have a 4++. 

 

Also, a NDH with Force up never hurts. 

 

This basic tactic works very well at purging Daemon Princes as well.  Multi-assault them and a troop unit you can beat, then let instability kill them by resolving most of your attacks into the weak stuff. Instability cuts through all saves and toughness so you can even kill a 2++ reroll DP with this if you win by a lot and he fails the moral test by 4 or more...

 

Hammerhand is not a easy to get now, but did make GK really mean in CC if you have them jacked up on Warp Roids.

[lt051]

@viper

 

Maybe I'm misunderstanding what you're trying to say, but as far as I know you can't sweep out of a multi-unit combat unless all the opposing units are falling back

[Reclusiarch Darius]

Nemesis Dreadknight

 

Under 'Heavy Support'

 

Thanks for playing, other armies

 

:P

[Grand Master Caloth]

You can't sweep into other units, so you wanna make sure you hit hard enough to ensure you will take the combat

[boreas]

I think a major concern now is which Force weapons to activate since we can't activate in the opponent's turn anymore.

[Grand Master Caloth]

Yea.. at least what you do get activated stays active till our next psychic phase

[Reclusiarch Darius]

 

You can't sweep into other units, so you wanna make sure you hit hard enough to ensure you will take the combat 

 

 

5 x S10 AP2 force attacks that re-roll to hit and wound...I mean yeah don't charge him into hordes (or let him get tarpitted), but against any normal 10-man squad he is nightmare fuel. Also, keep challenging the characters until one accepts. Mine usually spends their Shooting phase in melee cleaning up, then gets free on my turn :)

 

I think a major concern now is which Force weapons to activate since we can't activate in the opponent's turn anymore.

 

 

(shrug) Even in 5th and 6th I barely used force. You usually only need it for multi-wound infantry or MC's, everything else you're better off casting 'Hammerhand'. I very rarely need force on my DK, he usually murders his opponent with sheer wound output/S10 already. So I guess pick your moment to use it. 

[IK Viper]

You are correct in that you must break each unit in the combat to run them down.    The intent here is to pick a weak target to tie into the combat so that you can win by a lot, or possibly even wipe them out.  The intent is to make the really tough unit test on a very low leadership in hopes that they fail.  If all units involved fail, which if you win big is pretty common, you can sweep them both.  If one unit stays, you are still locked in combat safe from shooting and any units that failed will fall back.  Since they are not marines (because planning on trying to sweep marines is just a bad tactics/ game knowledge)  the unit in question will fall back and at best rally and Snap Fire, which probably puts it in easy striking distance for your unit still locked in combat.  Assuming they win the combat on the enemy turn, consolidate, and they move, it is not hard to charge the unit that got away. 

[lt051]

But wouldn't the big scary Mc only test based on how it fared in combat? So if it lost by 1, it's test would be -1, regardless if that pathfinder squad lost by -10 or something? Unless I've been playing it wrong, but pretty sure they are settled separately

 

Edit: Nvm, shows how often I've multi-charged lol

[Ozshock]

its overall...even if you have 3 squads in combat...if oyu lost by 6 wounds...its 6 wounds for all 3 squads...but if one is fearless they all stay put...

 

but if they fail that leadership i think you choose which enemy you would like to sweep (not sure on that one)

 

but imo relying on multi charges like that can be hard...most of the time ur opponent will have something close by for support fire but not that close. so go for the riptide and activate force

[Kilofix]

its overall...even if you have 3 squads in combat...if oyu lost by 6 wounds...its 6 wounds for all 3 squads...but if one is fearless they all stay put...

 

but if they fail that leadership i think you choose which enemy you would like to sweep (not sure on that one)

 

but imo relying on multi charges like that can be hard...most of the time ur opponent will have something close by for support fire but not that close. so go for the riptide and activate force

 

Can we confirm that first sentence, my BRB RAW interpretation isnt that good?

[Ozshock]

its only for the combat results...im pretty sure you cant sweeping advance all the squads...ill double check

[IK Viper]

In a multiple combat situation, the results are totaled by side.  My total wounds vs my opponent's total wounds,  then each unit in the losing side tests at the same modifier. 

 

You can only sweep if every unit in the combat fails though.  So if one unit sticks around, the victors are still held in combat and are not free to perform a sweeping advance at all.  All failing units fall back as normal.  However, if all the units break, you can test for sweeping advance.  You sweep down and destroy all the units you catch.  Any that escape fall back as normal, and then the victors consolidate.

 

Close Combat, while rare and hard to set up, is very, very lethal, specially to weak/ slow initiative units.    

[Kilofix]

In a multiple combat situation, the results are totaled by side.  My total wounds vs my opponent's total wounds,  then each unit in the losing side tests at the same modifier. 

 

You can only sweep if every unit in the combat fails though.  So if one unit sticks around, the victors are still held in combat and are not free to perform a sweeping advance at all.  All failing units fall back as normal.  However, if all the units break, you can test for sweeping advance.  You sweep down and destroy all the units you catch.  Any that escape fall back as normal, and then the victors consolidate.

 

Close Combat, while rare and hard to set up, is very, very lethal, specially to weak/ slow initiative units.    

 

I guess then what you're saying makes sense - assault both the Drones and Riptide, kill the Drones, force the Riptide to take a test with a big negative modifier.

[Reclusiarch Darius]

I guess then what you're saying makes sense - assault both the Drones and Riptide, kill the Drones, force the Riptide to take a test with a big negative modifier.

 

 

Even if you don't run the Riptide down, you're already ahead if he's in melee. He's probably dead from melee attacks (due to force) in the next round of melee anyway :)

[Kilofix]

I guess then what you're saying makes sense - assault both the Drones and Riptide, kill the Drones, force the Riptide to take a test with a big negative modifier.

Even if you don't run the Riptide down, you're already ahead if he's in melee. He's probably dead from melee attacks (due to force) in the next round of melee anyway

That's true too - my last game with GK vs Tau, my GKSS (10) was in CC with a Riptide - he missed just one 2+/3++ and he was dead from Force. He asked if he could FNP and I pointed him to the USR section that said no for Instant Death.

My NDK was less effective because he had fewer attacks to force a miss against a 2+/3++.

[IK Viper]

Unrelated but there is no reason a Riptide should be cheaper than a Teleported NDK.  One day he will be pointed correctly but right now he is way to expensive compared to other MC's

[Reclusiarch Darius]

My NDK was less effective because he had fewer attacks to force a miss against a 2+/3++.

 

That doesn't ring true for me. With a greatsword you're re-rolling everything, you hit on 3's and wound on 2's, and you have 5 attacks on the charge (4 base). With 'Force' turned on you should be able to get at least one wound through his 3+ invul. 

 

Unrelated but there is no reason a Riptide should be cheaper than a Teleported NDK.  One day he will be pointed correctly but right now he is way to expensive compared to other MC's

 

 

They made the teleporter absurdly expensive, and the guns too pricey as well. I think the base cost of the DK is fine (he's a S10 MC with a 2+ save), and the greatsword is properly costed (it only works in melee). If they brought the teleporter down to something like 30 or even 40 points, and the guns to 10-15 apiece, he'd be a lot easier to fit into a normal list. As is, he's around Land Raider price. 

[Quozzo]

 

My NDK was less effective because he had fewer attacks to force a miss against a 2+/3++.

 

That doesn't ring true for me. With a greatsword you're re-rolling everything, you hit on 3's and wound on 2's, and you have 5 attacks on the charge (4 base). With 'Force' turned on you should be able to get at least one wound through his 3+ invul. 

 

Unrelated but there is no reason a Riptide should be cheaper than a Teleported NDK.  One day he will be pointed correctly but right now he is way to expensive compared to other MC's

 

 

They made the teleporter absurdly expensive, and the guns too pricey as well. I think the base cost of the DK is fine (he's a S10 MC with a 2+ save), and the greatsword is properly costed (it only works in melee). If they brought the teleporter down to something like 30 or even 40 points, and the guns to 10-15 apiece, he'd be a lot easier to fit into a normal list. As is, he's around Land Raider price. 

 

Yes its expensive, but people still take it. Shows its actually a reasonable price for what it does. I don't hear people screaming that's land raider are too much at 250+ points a piece because your getting a good deal really. 

[Reclusiarch Darius]

Yes its expensive, but people still take it. Shows its actually a reasonable price for what it does. I don't hear people screaming that's land raider are too much at 250+ points a piece because your getting a good deal really. 

 

We still take it because DK's are just plasma fodder without a teleporter. Even with one, they're expensive AP2 magnets. 

 

Land Raiders have always been overpriced. Especially now Ravens do their job a thousand times better. Even at 200 points a Land Raider would be an iffy proposition, due to Hull Points and our already pathetically low model count.