Dealing with MCs & Characters in 7th

[Gentlemanloser]

Still.  5 GKT with a Psycannon, 225.  NDK with a Gattling Psilencer and a Heavy Psycannon, 205

 

And we take Deep Striking / Footslogging GKT.

 

;)

 

I might just run an unbound army of footslooging NDK kitted out like this. :D

[Reclusiarch Darius]

Still. 5 GKT with a Psycannon, 225. NDK with a Gattling Psilencer and a Heavy Psycannon, 205

And we take Deep Striking / Footslogging GKT.

I might just run an unbound army of footslooging NDK kitted out like this.

If I could I'd take Dreadknights as Troops haha. An Unbound list of them would be pretty crazy, especially with teleporters. 6 of them would be a pain to deal with.

[Gentlemanloser]

Compared to the GKT squad, you trade a Psycannon for a large Blast.

 

Lose a Wound, but gain T.

 

Loss 6 attacks, but gain S10/AP2 on Initiative.

 

You gain 2 'StormBolter' Shots.

 

You Lose 'nades.

 

 

It's not a bad comparison

[Ozshock]

imo termies are overpriced for what they bring as well...to easy to throw a hundred dice at and lose them to a squad less than half their points...but back to the NDK...without the teleporter he has the same limitations as the rest of our army...24" range

 

who in their right mind would walk termies up the board? you can DS the NDK but the base is so huge finding a spot to land would be difficult especially if the opponent knows it is comine...it NEEDS that teleporter to be effective, i would say drop the shunt, drop the cost to like 20 points and it would be worth it imo...just to make him Jump

30-40 would be fine for just Jump too

[Gentlemanloser]

Walking NDKS and GKT work just fine. ;)

 

Especially if you're not facing Skulls and can Scout some.

[IK Viper]

I agree, TDA is universally to expensive for what you are getting.  GK Terminators are at least troops but still not very good.  Against regular wound you are getting basically the same durability as 2 Strike Marines (exactly the same cost), but have less shots, less attacks on the charge, fewer units (thus fewer Warp Charges) all while being slightly less durable against AP2 shooting than 2 Strike Marines.  If those Marines are getting cover then instantly jump way above the TDA in durability.  The only situation in which TDA outperforms Power Armor is vs. AP3 shooting, but there is not very much of that in the game right now.  It is mostly either AP2 or AP4 or worse, making Power Armor a better buy for the same points as it has more durability and firepower per point, not to mention the MSU's both for scoring and Warp Charge.

 

The NDK is a steal at his base cost for sure.  I just feel that when he is jacked up to around 230 with a PT and a GW he is just to easy to take out.  He is nowhere near as good as a 240 Wraith Knight for example that can both shoot long range, and fight in CC, all while moving with a jump pack and being completely immune to S4 or less.  NDK needs to be about 180-190 with a Sword and PT in order to match up with the other MC's in the game.

[lt051]

I think a teleporting NDK is priced correctly, without a teleporter however, they are on the expensive side. I think a point reduction overall, with an increase in greatsword cost would make a little more sense, might open up other options

[jeffersonian000]

I think a teleporting NDK is priced correctly, without a teleporter however, they are on the expensive side. I think a point reduction overall, with an increase in greatsword cost would make a little more sense, might open up other options

Hush your mouth! DK weapons are way too expensive to "increase the cost" for balance. NDKs are functionally a squad of GKT rolled into a single MC statline with a 75pt transport option. As such, they should be, and functionally are, price appropriately for 5th Ed. They need a minor adjustment for 7th, something we should be seeing later this year.

 

SJ

[boreas]

I think we'll see a price increase for the NDK. As of now, it's a no-brainer choice. Possibly, that might be mitigated by a price decrease for the teleporter. Also, I think the NGS will become a full-fledged weapon. Right now the hammer is useless. Hopefully the psylencer will become useful.

[Deamon Wolf]

MC and Chariacters easy Hammer Hand and Force on Dragio , 1 wound Done

 

trust me Nid MC players hate me :)

[lt051]

 

I think a teleporting NDK is priced correctly, without a teleporter however, they are on the expensive side. I think a point reduction overall, with an increase in greatsword cost would make a little more sense, might open up other options

Hush your mouth! DK weapons are way too expensive to "increase the cost" for balance. NDKs are functionally a squad of GKT rolled into a single MC statline with a 75pt transport option. As such, they should be, and functionally are, price appropriately for 5th Ed. They need a minor adjustment for 7th, something we should be seeing later this year.

 

SJ

Lol wut? For the price of a powerfist you get to reroll everything I cc.... As is if you don't take it you're building your list wrong, which pretty much means is unbalanced. The guns on the other hand, they could use a small price drop, maybe not the incinerator though

[DinoDoc]

No one would take the Psilencer at it is even if it were free.

[jeffersonian000]

No one would take the Psilencer at it is even if it were free.

I would take Psilencers if they were Assault Weapons and free. Heavy it too high of a penelty, and they are too situational to pay for.

 

SJ

[Ozshock]

they were always designed to be an anti daemon weapon...nothing more (perhaps anti horde)

 

as for the Greatsword...what is the point in wasteing the points when 9 times out of 10 you wont even get to use it? in most of the games ive played the NDK has been focused in the first turn, because people know how dangerous it is to be left alone...which is why you NEED the teleporter and incinerator, get in as quick as possible and make him a dangerous target, keeping the fire off ur other dangerous targets

 

in most games, running 2 is the viable option, but its like having 2x LRaiders...you lose alot of points from the other side of the army that really should be bolstered up quite a bit...235 with the teleporter and the incin, add in a greatsword for 25 and another weapon...he essentially becomes 4 tough terminators worth almost 300 points...thats almost a lord of war...which would prove far better to use in ANY circumstance, which is why you really need to keep the points down as much as possible

[Gentlemanloser]

I'm slightly confused;

 

 

 

in most of the games ive played the NDK has been focused in the first turn, because people know how dangerous it is to be left alone

 

 

 

get in as quick as possible and make him a dangerous target

 

Why bother with any upgrades?

 

For the price of one with a PT and HI that gets focused to death first turn, why not take two base instead?

[Reclusiarch Darius]

You know what would make the DK instantly worth Landraider-level price point?

 

Flying Monstrous Creature

 

;)

[jeffersonian000]

You know what would make the DK instantly worth Landraider-level price point?

 

Flying Monstrous Creature

 

;)

DKs did get screwed on that, as the only "jump" MC in the game when all the other MCs with Jump Packs (aka, Wings) became Flying MCs.

 

SJ

[Reclusiarch Darius]

DKs did get screwed on that, as the only "jump" MC in the game when all the other MCs with Jump Packs (aka, Wings) became Flying MCs.

 

I mean don't get me wrong, Shunt is incredible, but FMC defenses are crazy good too. Perhaps it would be a little OP though, now you have to cause a wound to force a Grounding test. 

[lt051]

And not to mention the fluff would have been a little much

[Reclusiarch Darius]

Oh I dunno. They could handwave an explanation for it. There are weirder 'background doesn't match rules' clashes in 40k. 

[Ozshock]

I'm slightly confused;

 

 

 

in most of the games ive played the NDK has been focused in the first turn, because people know how dangerous it is to be left alone

 

 

 

get in as quick as possible and make him a dangerous target

 

Why bother with any upgrades?

 

For the price of one with a PT and HI that gets focused to death first turn, why not take two base instead?

 

the NDK needs that PT to be able to do anything...otherwise it just becomes an old carnifex foot slogging to the front lines...and the HI is a must against tau/eldar (the 2 stronger armeis out there)

 

i usually run 2 like this and roast ALL markerlights first turn...means no inc BS, no reduced cover shenanigans...also means when i blow eldar transports i can roast a whole squad of troops...against SM not quite as powerful but they usually dont have as much as other armies to be able to deal with it effectively

[Reclusiarch Darius]

the NDK needs that PT to be able to do anything...otherwise it just becomes an old carnifex foot slogging to the front lines...and the HI is a must against tau/eldar (the 2 stronger armeis out there)

 

Agreed. It's not just the Shunt move, the 12" normal movement is amazing. If we could deliver a teleport homer reliably into enemy lines, I could see dropping the PT's...but its very hard to pull off. 

i usually run 2 like this and roast ALL markerlights first turn...means no inc BS, no reduced cover shenanigans...also means when i blow eldar transports i can roast a whole squad of troops...against SM not quite as powerful but they usually dont have as much as other armies to be able to deal with it effectively

 

Eh, S6 template still usually burninates a couple of Marines, which is less you have to kill in melee ;) 

[Gentlemanloser]

/meh

 

PT is really even less necessary than before.

 

With a Scoring NDK by default, you can afford to give your footslogging NDKs Scout instead.

 

*If* you know that your NDKs are going to be target priority number 1, and focused down by Plasma whatever you do. Then keep them cheap and walk them up the board uskcing up that Plasma Fire.

 

If you opponent swtich his Target Priority, smile, as you walk the NDKs into thier line and beat faces.

 

Edit:

 

As for burninating Tau/Eldar.

 

NDK, PT, H Incinerator (235)

 

Interceptor x5, Incinerator (150)

 

;)

[Reclusiarch Darius]

 

*If* you know that your NDKs are going to be target priority number 1, and focused down by Plasma whatever you do. Then keep them cheap and walk them up the board uskcing up that Plasma Fire.

 

If you opponent swtich his Target Priority, smile, as you walk the NDKs into thier line and beat faces.

 

Even with minimum gear, you've just fed 185pts+ to the enemy for no result. Walking DK's are a complete waste of time. At least the teleporter gets you into position Turn 1, and affords you the speed to catch stuff like Riptides, tanks, jetbikes etc. 

 

If your argument was in any way true, Carnifex would be amazing for Tyranids. Walking MC are worthless if they can't put out significant shooting. 

[Ozshock]

i am leaning towards interceptors instead...seems like 3x10man squads would be better than 3x NDK's...

 

points wise you have SO many more shots to pump out, give them psyammo with the incin and you can melt face still...combat squad and that gives you 6 more shooting targets...might look at more interceptors into my shunt list...usually try to take even amount NDK to Int