A little help...

[Daemon2027]

Hello B&C heresy enthusiasts, I would like you help with something.

 

Meet Brother Ignotus

I built him well over a year ago, for some long forgotten project. But I liked him, in fact he is my favourite toy soldier, and he generally followed my modelling ramblings changing legions and chapters as he went. At some point (possibly around December 2013) I decided to 'bigger-ise' him, which makes him unsuitable for my World Eater 8th company. That and he hasn't the soul of the XIIth. In the past he has been an Iron Warrior, a Son Of Horus, an Imperial Fist, a Night Lord, and more recently, as you can see, an Iron Hand. I feel it's time Ignotus had a permanent home, and brothers to fight next to. This is where I ask for your help, which Legion. The Iron Warriors, or the Iron Hands.

 

Just a little note on his future brother, the idea I have is for a 30k shield wall. Lots of breachers holding the line, or pushing forward testudo style. Artillery and support squads bring fire down on the enemy, recon sharpshooters sowing disorder. Armour hangs in reserve ready to protect the flanks, and when the lines are closed terminators and contemptors hammer the enemy.

 

I feel that either the Iron IV or Iron X are best suited for what I am aiming for. I considered the VII, with their close combat breachers, but wasn't sure if the whole knight thing sort of got in the way of the idea. It can be ignored to a point but I do feel it's part of their identity, and at some point Templars introduced. Also there's not a lot of honour in a shield wall.

 

Thoughts, comments, criticism please.

[Russ Brother 92]

I personally think that the Xth Iron Hands would suit best - I mean they/we have breachers that will blast the foe to kingdom come whilst they run away :D

[sitnam]

I agree, 10th would be best suited for a breacher heavy style. Plus you have Medusan Immortals! And this guy is already modelled as a member of the 10th

[Kizzdougs]

The IV Legion is one of my very favourites, so I'm slightly biased when I vote for them. Perturabo's sons would make great allies for both your World Eaters and Alpha Legion. Alternatively you could run the IWs by themselves with their unique rite of war. Imagine a 20 man breacher squad rapid firing before charging in to claim an objective!

[Daemon2027]

That's been my problem. Both Legions fit what I want to do. The Iron Hands do have the special breachers, but the Iron Warriors have some good rules. I also like both legions, I like both Primarchs. What sort of cultural niche does the Iron Hands have?

Here's an Iron Warrior I painted last year.

And a test for the black I would use on an Iron Hand (I just did the back, nothing else so he's not finished)

[Molokai]

I really like the black you've achieved for that iron hand. Would you mind sharing your technique?

 

Thanks

[Daemon2027]

Sure. Now this was a test so this could use some refinement.

 

Eshin grey basecoat, nuln oil (i usually mix some agrax earthshade with the nuln oil) wash. Once dry a light drybrush of leadbelcher. Another nuln oil wash. A very light silver drybrush on the raised areas and large spaces to give a shine. Then a final drybrush of nuln oil this time mixed with a little 'ard coat (and of course medium).

[Iron Hands Fanatic]

That's been my problem. Both Legions fit what I want to do. The Iron Hands do have the special breachers, but the Iron Warriors have some good rules. I also like both legions, I like both Primarchs. What sort of cultural niche does the Iron Hands have?

Here's an Iron Warrior I painted last year.

And a test for the black I would use on an Iron Hand (I just did the back, nothing else so he's not finished)

 

Tha'ts a really nice blackened Iron you've got there

 

In terms of a cultural niche, its tricky one, as they don't really have a historical analogue to draw from.

 

The best way to look at them is to consider Medusa itself.

This was a centre of industry and technology in the Dark Age of technology, but was lost in the Age of Strife. During this period, it became legendary, a treasure trove of unknown technological marvels, and to the Mechanicum became synonymous to Atlantis, a lost city of wonders.

 

In 30k, Medusa is a wasteland, with unstable geology and labyrinthine sub-surface ruins haunted by horrific machine constructs from the Dark Age of Technology, and the mutant remnants of that era's inhabitants. The system itself is shrouded in a dense debris field, with ruined hulks, fractured planetoids and long-vacant void craft, concealing ancient automated weapon systems and anti-ship mines. The Telstarax - a massive synthetic orbital docking ring encircling Medusa - has sent fragments of ruin to shatter the planet's surface, and pollutants obscure most of it's star's light.

 

The human population are the descendants of a mix of shipwrecked travellers and survivors of sleeper-ships launched from Mars in the Age of Strife to colonize the lost world. Because of the death-world conditions, their society has descended into a form of tribal, nomadic culture, but retaining the strong reverence & affinity for technology that their Mechanicum heritage would suggest. The largest Clans traverse the wastes in colossal land-crawlers, each fighting for the most basic of resources, and each Clan of the X Legion draws its recruits from its Medusan partner, with the planet's small population supplemented by a tithe of recruits drawn from every world the Iron Hands conquer - if they can survive on Medusa, their worth may be considered for ascension into the ranks of the X Legion, but survival is by no means guaranteed.

 

Darwinism seems to be comparable to the Iron Hands' outlook, and they consider themselves warriors alone - they have no concern save for destroying and moving on.

There is a certain level of freedom in how you want to direct the X Legion's cultural themes, as each Clan is effectively a 'sub-Legion', fully autonomous and united only by fealty to the Gorgon and the Emperor, so each will have its own distinctive traditions & practices.

 

The Medusans could be compared to a number of historical tribal cultures, but with their religious aspect occupied by a system analogous to the priesthood of Mars, with the Engineer / Shaman figures of the Iron Fathers tying them to the technological history of the post-apocalyptic waste they inhabit.  

[Reyner]

Iron Warriors, holding the line is their speciality as well as breaking enemy lines with artillery. Iron Hands Immortals make excellent base models for an Iron Warriors Legion Command Squad too :P

[Daemon2027]

Ok you have sold me on the Iron Hands

Looking at the names of the clans I got a Gaulic vibe, but, seeing as they pulled recruits from Old Alba (which I'm assuming is Britain) I thought I could extend this to include the wider Celtic, Romano Gaulic and Romano British culture. I was thinking of using Celtic (and possibly Saxon, mainly for the dragon style art to represent the wyrm) art designs. Nothing to obvious, a bit like the way FW have the dark grey designs on the Raven Guard. In fact I may lean on Saxon culture a bit to, it's not a million miles different from Celtic but provides a different style.

 

Hmmm... This has got me thinking a lot.

 

Should I create my own lesser clan, will allow me to forge my own path as it were. Or maybe use the clan with the twin serpent heads and link them back to my Alpha Legion?

[Molokai]

Hey Demon sorry I can't offer on any advice on naming or artwork but I am thankful you shared your recipe.

[Reyner]

 Or maybe use the clan with the twin serpent heads and link them back to my Alpha Legion?

This. Do this.

[Iron Hands Fanatic]

Ok you have sold me on the Iron Hands

Looking at the names of the clans I got a Gaulic vibe, but, seeing as they pulled recruits from Old Alba (which I'm assuming is Britain) I thought I could extend this to include the wider Celtic, Romano Gaulic and Romano British culture. I was thinking of using Celtic (and possibly Saxon, mainly for the dragon style art to represent the wyrm) art designs. Nothing to obvious, a bit like the way FW have the dark grey designs on the Raven Guard. In fact I may lean on Saxon culture a bit to, it's not a million miles different from Celtic but provides a different style.

 

Hmmm... This has got me thinking a lot.

 

Should I create my own lesser clan, will allow me to forge my own path as it were. Or maybe use the clan with the twin serpent heads and link them back to my Alpha Legion?

 

Yeah, this all seems appropriate - there have never been huge cultural ties, but there are occasional references to different societies, and mixing them seems appropriate - after all, 'Felg', one of the Clans shown in Massacre, is Norwegian for wheel, so Northern European cultures seem appropriate.

 

In terms of patterning / symbols you'd want to use, combining references to the above cultures with some more technological / engineering symbols seems appropriate - for my Clan, I've used circuit diagrams for microchips as a base for electoos / armour engravings [see here]

 

In terms of creating your own Clan / going with Clan Ungavarr, with either you can entirely theme the Clan to your own liking - in terms of the whole AL thing, by all means link them together in terms of past deployments, but I'd be very careful about the whole Legion infiltrator vibe - after all, Ungavarr lost a number of heavy armour units at the Dropsite.

[Daemon2027]

Yeah, it would only be a suggestion of a link to the Alpha Legion.

 

Any cultural reference will be kept low as well, I see the Xth as very Legion first. It's why I suggested Romano Gaulic and British, a cursory look will show the more standard Roman style trappings. Crests on officers, pteruges, lightening bolts, the standard legion look. A deeper inspection will reveal the more tribal markings. I might see if I can mix Celtic art, with the microchip style you have gone for (it looks fantastic).

 

I will think on Ungavarr, I do like the idea of the Serpent as a symbol. Not only does it symbolise the Wyrm Manus fought, but also it's a symbol of knowledge. In fact more so, the symbol of forbidden knowledge, which relates back to the cybernetics and possible AI that's forbidden in the Imperium.

 

What ever I do, I would keep these guys very 'grey' post Isstvan, following their own path of vengeance.

[Iron Hands Fanatic]

Basically, if you can, read / re-read the Iron Hands section from Massacre - it contains some fantastic background, and really captures the ethos of the Legion fantastically, and will continue to provide inspiration.

[Daemon2027]

I did skim read read it last night along with the Iron Warriors. I will read it a bit more in depth tonight.

 

Can a MoS take a cyber familiar, because Ignotus would rock a cyber familiar.

[Iron Hands Fanatic]

Hmmm, I'm not sure - the rule states any 'Character' can take one, but the Centurion is an Independant Character

 

On the bright side, you can equip an entire terminator command squad with cyber-familiars, which makes possibly the hardest infantry unit in 30k

[Phoros]

Independant Characters are Characters by default, aren't they? Says so in the Characters section of the main rulebook, AFAIR.

[Daemon2027]

I suppose if a Praetor can take one, then a Centurion should. He will get one, if he can't it's just part of the vox equipment.

 

I'm looking forward to taking this on. Have been thinking on bionics, it's possible to be quite philosophical on the subject. The creation of strength but the loss of the soul. I have been wanting to paint Manus for ages, can't wait to get my hands on him.

[Iron Hands Fanatic]

I suppose if a Praetor can take one, then a Centurion should. He will get one, if he can't it's just part of the vox equipment.

 

I'm looking forward to taking this on. Have been thinking on bionics, it's possible to be quite philosophical on the subject. The creation of strength but the loss of the soul. I have been wanting to paint Manus for ages, can't wait to get my hands on him.

 

Interestingly, bionics have a different role in the X Legion as opposed to the Iron Hands Chapter. Rather than voluntarily gaining bionics, the Iron Tenth have such an array of cybernetics because rather than using cloned tissue replacements, as other Legions do, the Iron Hands use mechanical augments because it gets them back in the field faster - whilst in a warzone, other Legions might have hundreds of wounded Legionaries out of the fight, waiting as tissue is grown for transplant, Legionaries of the Iron Hands can expect to be back up and fighting within 24 hours of loosing a limb. So it's more a matter of efficiency than ideology - although you can still perceive their love for logic & technology, as well as their inherent brutality & suppression of emotion as distancing them from humanity - and the cracks start to show when the Gorgon falls.

[Daemon2027]

I got the impression Feat of Iron, which i must admit, I read around a year ago, that they had already begun to self 'bionic' themselves. I dont have fond memories of that story, to much, Iron Hand smash, for me.

 

I had the idea of creating background that covers the GC through to post Isstvan, and can document the change. I imagine in, say a Forge Lord, that it may be more pronounced. I imagine a figure, who studies the art of bionics, the balance of flesh and steel, but the loss of the primarch sends him insular to the point he starts to upgrade himself. I feel it could be quite tragic.

[Sevatar]

The MoS can take a cyber familiar, as can all Iron Hands characters - this includes Sergeants, which are Characters.. Me, I would use a scarab beetle :)

[Iron Hands Fanatic]

I got the impression Feat of Iron, which i must admit, I read around a year ago, that they had already begun to self 'bionic' themselves. I dont have fond memories of that story, to much, Iron Hand smash, for me.

 

I had the idea of creating background that covers the GC through to post Isstvan, and can document the change. I imagine in, say a Forge Lord, that it may be more pronounced. I imagine a figure, who studies the art of bionics, the balance of flesh and steel, but the loss of the primarch sends him insular to the point he starts to upgrade himself. I feel it could be quite tragic.

 

Yeah, the existing HH novels that include the Iron Hands basically treat the X Legion like an upscaled version of the Iron Hands chapter. Personally, I treat the FW books as my true cannon, as the most objective / impartial account, and because they set a framework and codify aspects of each Legion that have never been developed.

 

So, if you want to take into account background from the BL HH series, I'd try and re-read them 'through' the lens of the lore set down in Massacre.

 

And yeah, existing content in the Heresy series covering the X legion has been pretty clumsy, but hopefully from now on, the Forge World books will be used as a basis for further expansion.

[Xin Ceithan]

I am quite enjoying seeing how your force's fluff develops along this thread. And I agree that there are few good IH stories out there and I would lovetoseem something closer to the FW fluff.

 

BTW, are Breachers solid core troops choices? I really like the models and have thought about using two squads with a Phobos or two as an anvil force core and build more legion themed units around this

[Daemon2027]

I will be studying Massacre later, and will use that as the foundation of me army.

 

I have a centurion almost ready to show, just needs a little gs and a left arm. He will effectively be the commander of the breacher squads. He will not be finished tonight however, as I have a long evening of drinking ahead of the England game. Also need to attach the cyber familiar to Ignotus (he needs a new name). I have also rewritten my World Eater list to free up my Sicaran for this.

I am quite enjoying seeing how your force's fluff develops along this thread. And I agree that there are few good IH stories out there and I would lovetoseem something closer to the FW fluff.

 

BTW, are Breachers solid core troops choices? I really like the models and have thought about using two squads with a Phobos or two as an anvil force core and build more legion themed units around this

Tha ks, I will change the topic of this thread and keep this one going as there is some good info in here.

 

I not sure on the ability of the breachers outside of zone mortalis (where they are very good) but its more the vision I am trying to build.