Bonzi Posted June 13, 2014 Share Posted June 13, 2014 Now that I'm in the final painting stages of my White Scars army my thoughts of fancy turn towards the Tempestus Scions. I really really like their models and rules and I'm thinking about starting a new army in one go. I say this because I have a punch card worth 20% off my entire next purchase. Here is what I'm thinking. Tempestus Scions Command Squad: x3 grenade launchers, medipack 10 Scions: plasma pistol, x2 plasma guns Taurox Prime: battle cannon, tl-autocannon 10 Scions: plasma pistol, x2 plasma guns Taurox Prime: battle cannon, tl-autocannon 5 Scions: x2 melta guns 5 Scions: x2 melta guns Valkyrie: multi-rocket pods, heavy bolters 950 Astra Militarum Commissar Yarrick Veterans: x2 plasma guns, demolitions -Chimera: multilaser, hhb, dozer blade, auger array Manticore: camo 545 The Astra Militarum is mostly there to for the artillery and the fact that I have some Vostroyan troopers & a Chimera already so I won't have to buy them. I like the Manticore because I gives the feel of my special forces Scions calling in cruise missile strikes against hard targets and because it gives me a way to bust open vehicle heavy lists at range and to kill hordes. -What I like about the list is that it lets me use some models I already own and it seems balance/fun. -What I don't like about this list is that it isn't pure Scions. What I'm looking at is the Tempestus Storm Scions box set ($285 cost, $337 value), two additional boxes of Scions ($35ea), and a Manticore artillery ($49). Total: $404.00 (minus 20% discount) equals out to $323 for $456 worth of new models. I'm on the fence and I'm open to suggestions. I love Tempest Scions. I love Astra Militarum artillery, especially Wyverns and Manticores. I want a fun/cool army more that an ultra competitive one but I'm just not sure how to get there without breaking the bank. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/292400-starting-tempestus-scions/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
shandwen Posted June 13, 2014 Share Posted June 13, 2014 I've played a couple games with the Scions, and I have to say i love the missile/autocannon taurox prime load-out, but that does create a very expensive light vehicle. The mini-cannon seemed very "meh" to me. The lack of arty (or really anything else) in the scion book does make me sad, but with a few valkryies any infantry will be punished enough to do without the big guns. And any enemy armor really has to be dealt with either the scions themselves or the tauroxs. The deep striking squads of melta are very fun though, and the models are gorgeous! Have fun, and good hunting! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/292400-starting-tempestus-scions/#findComment-3717411 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Argel-tal Posted June 13, 2014 Share Posted June 13, 2014 I recently played a game using 2 x 10 Scion squads with 2 x meltas in taurox primes as well as 1 x 5 man command squad with 4 x plasma guns in a taurox prime and it was glorious! Their ability to destroy vehicles and high toughness MC's was fantastic! Also the fast vehicle special rule the taurox has gives your scions the ability to get in kill their target and get out with little danger to themselves. Watch out with plasma guns though... I rolled a large number of 1's and killed a couple of my guys! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/292400-starting-tempestus-scions/#findComment-3717502 Share on other sites More sharing options...
WarriorFish Posted June 13, 2014 Share Posted June 13, 2014 Welcome to the Guard :D I think mixing a Scion and Guard force is good, it's appropriate to the background and lets your Guard support areas the Scions are lacking. It's a cool idea too, which is always the most important thing :P I think your army is pretty good, but GLs on a Command Squad seems a bit of a waste? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/292400-starting-tempestus-scions/#findComment-3717564 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kierdale Posted June 13, 2014 Share Posted June 13, 2014 I agree with WarriorFish that GLs on your Scion command squad seems like unfulfilled potential. If you can shuffle the points, I'd go for something more hard hitting: plasma since you've got the medpack, or masses volley guns... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/292400-starting-tempestus-scions/#findComment-3717595 Share on other sites More sharing options...
march10k Posted June 13, 2014 Share Posted June 13, 2014 I've only used mine once using C:MT...their orders are much better than C:AM orders if you're using special weapons. I ran a command squad with four plasmas and two ten man melta squads. The concept worked out great, each melta squad dropped in more or less on target and nuked a target...unfortunately, one of them whiffed against AV10, rolling snake eyes to pen, while the other shot missed. The other one blew up a dreadnought and pulled another unit off an objective into assault. The command squad...landed within 12" of terminators, gave itself the twinlinking order, and promptly killed three stormtroopers and no terminators! Rotten dice!!! Doesn't invalidate the concept, though, they are amazing! In the longer term, I'll run the air cav formation, I have one valkyrie now, and two more are vowed for ETL, leaving a deficit of one. That'll run 960 points with five man squads and about 1200 with ten man squads. I'd probably run that with an IG ally, not sure if a AD or CAD. Definitely Pask, probably a couple of forward sentries squads with empty chimeras, not sure what else fits. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/292400-starting-tempestus-scions/#findComment-3717700 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grimdeath Posted June 13, 2014 Share Posted June 13, 2014 A deep striking command squad with 4 flamers is glorious...Good hunting! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/292400-starting-tempestus-scions/#findComment-3717759 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nicodemus Doloroso Posted June 13, 2014 Share Posted June 13, 2014 This list looks pretty good to me, although I am forced to agree with my colleagues and say that Grenade Launchers on the Command Squad feels like an under-utilization of their options and abilities. Otherwise it looks like a fun and fluffy list. That Militarum Tempestus Storm Scions box set is one heck of a deal! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/292400-starting-tempestus-scions/#findComment-3717900 Share on other sites More sharing options...
shandwen Posted June 13, 2014 Share Posted June 13, 2014 I'm hoping to actually run the 'ox formation in the future, with either Black Templars or Astra. The scions do not pack many bodies, but all the special rules and weapons they carry rocks on the field. And like March10k said their orders are very, very good. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/292400-starting-tempestus-scions/#findComment-3717910 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bonzi Posted June 14, 2014 Author Share Posted June 14, 2014 Fantastic replies guys, you've given me a lot to think about. I've been scouring the net looking for good information on Militarum Tempestus builds and tactics but there just isn't much being posted about them as a primary force. I'm excited to try the force out for myself so I can put up a few write-ups on Scion tactics. To address some points that have been raised. #1. Grenade launchers. I put them on my command squad because they seem like a good utility weapon that lets my Command Squad maintain it's mobility and keeps it from becoming a giant fire magent. With the GL's I can target monstrous creatures/light tanks with the Krak Grenades and still have a handy anti-horde weapon with the frag option. The GL's are fully effective at 24" range and allow me full movement, meaning my Commander can stay behind my Scion units and issue orders to them and maneuver with them as they advance. With the other weapons my Commander either needs to at the tip of the spear or right on the line with the troops where he will die and I'll loose the benefit of his orders. - If I stick plasma on the squad they will be death incarnate, but will be the number one target of every gun on the field. -If I stick melta on them they will obliterate a tank, then die and give my opponent 'slay the warlord'. -If I stick volley guns on them they will be great...as long as I stand still. -If I stick flamers on them they will be glorious, but probably die to close combat. Gah. There are seriously too many good options here and I'm still making up my mind. I like the Grenade Launchers in look and theory, I love the idea of a flamer squad swamping enemies with wounds, and the utility of a plasma gun barrage is too good to pass up. #2. Missile launchers on the Taurox. I wanted to try and keep my transports cheap (and I actually like the mini-battle cannon as a basic weapon) but there is no getting around the need for some long ranged anti-tank. I really like the Taurox battle cannon turret so I may try a conversion to do an interchangeable cannon/missile set up on the turret. I'm not crazy about the standard hatchback missiles as they are in the kit. Here is a rework of the potential list @ 1,000pts Tempestus Scions Command Squad: x3 plasma guns, medipack 10 Scions: plasma pistol, x2 hotshot volley guns Taurox Prime: missile launcher, tl-autocannon 10 Scions: plasma pistol, x2 plasma guns Taurox Prime: missile launcher, tl-autocannon, auger array 5 Scions: x2 melta guns 5 Scions: x2 melta guns Valkyrie: multi-rocket pods, heavy bolters This list will run me $284 US. With the savings of the box set and my 20% discount I will essentially be getting three boxes of Scions for free. Please continue to share and tricks or tactics you use while running Scions. I'm looking for all the information I can get on what works and what doesn't, and what the greatest challenges is for playing Scions. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/292400-starting-tempestus-scions/#findComment-3718265 Share on other sites More sharing options...
march10k Posted June 14, 2014 Share Posted June 14, 2014 - If I stick plasma on the squad they will be death incarnate, but will be the number one target of every gun on the field. That's silly...they are death incarnate. As long as they have four plasma guns, they're going to be giving themselves, not anyone else, an order every turn. Eight twinlinked plasma shots DESERVES to be the number one target of every gun on the field. If they can't justify themselves before they die, you're doing something wrong. The enemy isn't targeting them because they're an easy kill, he's targeting them because they're so dangerous. They can possibly ruin his plans in a single round of shooting, killing them is just damage control! This goes along with: die and give my opponent 'slay the warlord'. Um...take a commissar lord, and stick him elsewhere, like in a squad that's camping a home objective. The tempestor prime does not have to be your warlord!!! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/292400-starting-tempestus-scions/#findComment-3718308 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nicodemus Doloroso Posted June 14, 2014 Share Posted June 14, 2014 Now they I've read your explanation ofthe thinking behind grenade launcher command squad, it makes good sense. I think each of the options are viable for different reasons and GL could be a kind of stealth mode whereas plasma would be beast mode and priority target. I like your thinking and you've made me reconsider my own plans. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/292400-starting-tempestus-scions/#findComment-3718313 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dusktiger Posted June 19, 2014 Share Posted June 19, 2014 I'm also debating a scions as primary force. I had found one tactics thread somewhere where the guy suggested taurox saturation: give all your squads one, and take your fast slots in them as well, making the fast ones be missile/AC variants. The ones you buy with your squads don't have to transport them, but can stay empty and thus give you more tanks to use as moving cover and augur array buoys for deep strike units. And always move your taurox in groups around the board to use one another's hulls for cover saves. Myself, I'm going to be fielding mine with vox casters in the squads just to improve the chances of orders. The comm squad has a medic and 2 plasma as well, and the first 5 guys I made for my force has 2 volley guns. The command taurox is the Gatling cannon/volley gun variant, which I also converted into a 4x4 with a levelled off engine hood and personnel area in the back. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/292400-starting-tempestus-scions/#findComment-3723979 Share on other sites More sharing options...
march10k Posted June 19, 2014 Share Posted June 19, 2014 It's an interesting idea...how many points are they? I regularly spam Chimeras till the cows come home...with AV12 and 6 shots each, they're well worth 65 points appiece, and most of them end up being super-scorers. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/292400-starting-tempestus-scions/#findComment-3724056 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dusktiger Posted June 20, 2014 Share Posted June 20, 2014 iirc, its 80pts base, then your looking at the extras for missiles or the gatling cannon. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/292400-starting-tempestus-scions/#findComment-3724202 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bonzi Posted June 20, 2014 Author Share Posted June 20, 2014 The cost for Missiles on Taurox seems ridiculous but it is the armies only source of long range anti-tank outside of single BS3 lascannons on Valks. The biggest bonus's to the Taurox over Chimmy that I've heard of so far is the 'fast' and 'all-terrain' rules which let you bounce your Primes from cover to cover while firing both main weapons. Standard loadouts seem to be: #1. Missiles + TL autocannon for ranged anti tank and anti infantry. Expensive but vital to popping light and medium armor from range. #2. battle cannon + TL autocannon. Same role as above but cheaper and more points efficient (weapons all have same range & ap) #3. TL gatling gun + TL volleygun + storm bolter. Pure anti-infantry death. Can put out something like 17 shots at 24". Personally I am thinking of a two to one ratio of #1's and #2's as a default build for a Scions ground army. I plan on leaving the anti-infantry to the Valks with their twin rocket pods and heavy bolters. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/292400-starting-tempestus-scions/#findComment-3724222 Share on other sites More sharing options...
WarriorFish Posted June 20, 2014 Share Posted June 20, 2014 Taurox aren't bad, the Prime is obviously better for a cost - the trouble is that a vehicle that's speedy and throws a lot of fire power out soon attracts attention and this is very bad when the Taurox is made of paper. It must be spammed in some form as saturation is essential for them to survive long enough. Do this and I can definitely see the Taurox doing well, but it'll be a bit expensive to do! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/292400-starting-tempestus-scions/#findComment-3724326 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kierdale Posted June 20, 2014 Share Posted June 20, 2014 Nothing big, but perhaps something to keep in mind when Deep Striking your Scions: Deep striking into Difficult Terrain counts as Dangerous Terrain...which Scions can ignore via Move Through Cover. Ergo they can 'safely' be DS'd into Difficult Terrain providing both a cover save against incoming fire and a potential hindrance to enemy charges. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/292400-starting-tempestus-scions/#findComment-3724388 Share on other sites More sharing options...
march10k Posted June 20, 2014 Share Posted June 20, 2014 That's brilliant! If only that protected them from the effects of the grav chute insertion special rule... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/292400-starting-tempestus-scions/#findComment-3724451 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nicodemus Doloroso Posted June 20, 2014 Share Posted June 20, 2014 That's brilliant! If only that protected them from the effects of the grav chute insertion special rule... Why wouldn't it? Move through cover just says that they automatically pass all dangerous terrain tests. The grav chute rule says you take a dangerous terrain test if you scatter. Therefore, RAW and RAI as far as I'm concerned means they are immune to wounds from scattering via grav chute. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/292400-starting-tempestus-scions/#findComment-3724455 Share on other sites More sharing options...
march10k Posted June 20, 2014 Share Posted June 20, 2014 Ah, I guess you're right. I wondered about that, but I only re-read the grav chute insertion rule, not the move through cover one. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/292400-starting-tempestus-scions/#findComment-3724461 Share on other sites More sharing options...
WarriorFish Posted June 20, 2014 Share Posted June 20, 2014 Good point Kier :) Reason to get Scions #16... wait, this is a rules thing! I can still use my old Stormie models thank the Throne :P Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/292400-starting-tempestus-scions/#findComment-3724465 Share on other sites More sharing options...
march10k Posted June 20, 2014 Share Posted June 20, 2014 Good point Kier Reason to get Scions the C:MT Air Assault Formation #16... wait, this is a rules thing! I can still use my old Stormie models thank the Throne Fixed that! Seriously, and they get to reroll scatter when they jump, upon which they are twinlinked with split fire...ULTIMATE PARATROOPARZ!!!! /edit/ Yeah, and on the models, you know my feelings, and what I'm using! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/292400-starting-tempestus-scions/#findComment-3724475 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nicodemus Doloroso Posted June 20, 2014 Share Posted June 20, 2014 I am definitely thinking of doing airborne formation myself. The local gaming scene is definitely not Forgeworld friendly, and at the local tournaments Codex: Inquisition is banned. So in my planned Inquisitorial Storm Trooper army, if I can't bring C:I, might as well go all-out on the Scions (I guess I could bring C:GK and Coteaz but ... I just don't really like Coteaz, and the GK priest doesn't have Battle Hymns). You know, even in 1500 pts I think you could actually bring both the airborne AND ground assault formations if you really wanted to. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/292400-starting-tempestus-scions/#findComment-3724496 Share on other sites More sharing options...
WarriorFish Posted June 20, 2014 Share Posted June 20, 2014 I think the formations are good, such that you should look at them first when building a list that includes Scions. Assuming you have the models of course! Why are the Inquisition banned at the tournaments? Did an Inquisitor take away someone's teddy as a child? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/292400-starting-tempestus-scions/#findComment-3724506 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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