ZONKEY Posted June 13, 2014 Share Posted June 13, 2014 Just a general question I have been wondering but why did the emperor resort to kidnapping angron rather than using his legions to save him? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CoffeeGrunt Posted June 13, 2014 Share Posted June 13, 2014 His aim was to save Angron, and that's what he did. He didn't know about the decades that preceded it, about the uprising that Angron was so willing to die for. To Angron, it was everything. To the Emperor, it was just a scuffle on a backwater planet, and unimportant in the grand scale of the Great Crusade. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZONKEY Posted June 13, 2014 Author Share Posted June 13, 2014 I guess the emperor didn't think about think about his primarch hating him and asking a rebel leader to lead a oppressive Army :p Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CoffeeGrunt Posted June 13, 2014 Share Posted June 13, 2014 Yup. He assumed all his sons would love him endlessly, which is why he was surprised when half of them didn't. Â I think it was Rowboat Girlyman who said something like, "The Emperor was a brilliant scientist and an excellent tactician, but he was a terrible father." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GreyCrow Posted June 13, 2014 Share Posted June 13, 2014 I've wondered as much as well. Even if the goal was to save him, why didn't he just throw down the War Hounds or the Luna Wolves to dispose of the incoming army ? Â It's not like the Emperor never wiped out armies with shock assaults from drop pods. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZONKEY Posted June 13, 2014 Author Share Posted June 13, 2014 And angron could of had his rebel friends augmented into his legion like Luther and kor phadron, and the emperor didnt prove himself against angron like some of the others Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quixus Posted June 13, 2014 Share Posted June 13, 2014 Just a general question I have been wondering but why did the emperor resort to kidnapping angron rather than using his legions to save him?Because otherwise Angron would not have a reason to side with Horus. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wade Garrett Posted June 13, 2014 Share Posted June 13, 2014 I guess the emperor didn't think about think about his primarch hating him and asking a rebel leader to lead a oppressive Army :p Hey, it worked with Corax. Â And as far as Angron's fellow rebels...we know from Betrayer that the original Butcher's Nails were a far more warping and sinister design than the reverse engineered copies the War Hounds took. Â And even the knock offs caused the XII Legion Astartes to degenerate faster than Angron, because of their non Primarch physiology. Â Imagine what the results of the orignal Nails implanted in mere mortals must have been like, and you can easily see why the Emperor could have felt justified in leaving the gladiators to die. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quixus Posted June 13, 2014 Share Posted June 13, 2014 I can see justification for not using them in the XII Legion but being denied his last stand and leaving his comrades to die must have rubbed Angron wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kilofix Posted June 13, 2014 Share Posted June 13, 2014 The Emperor thinks everyone can be cold and uncaring as he. Â He didn't realize that some of us have feelings. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
helterskelter Posted June 13, 2014 Share Posted June 13, 2014 Though a point here could be Messrs mortarion, vulkan, and russ. He let mortarion walk up that mountain, he accepted vulkans and russ' challenges, he could have done the same with angron, let him fight, then swoop in at the end for, the obligatory look at me I am the emperor skit. Probably would have still sided with Horus, coz daddy didn't help sooner, or it could have gone the way of, you let me fight, now I fight for you, who knows. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZONKEY Posted June 13, 2014 Author Share Posted June 13, 2014 It just feels like angron got the bum end of the deal, I guess it didn't help angron ignored a lot of forms of authority even disliking his titles Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Uprising Posted June 13, 2014 Share Posted June 13, 2014 Another thing I don't get is why he help corax with his rebellion, which was after finding angron but not with angron? Â Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quixus Posted June 13, 2014 Share Posted June 13, 2014 Another thing I don't get is why he help corax with his rebellion, which was after finding angron but not with angron?Maybe he realized that his treatment of Angron was not the best. Or again power of plot, we need 9 loyalists and 9 traitors. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZONKEY Posted June 13, 2014 Author Share Posted June 13, 2014 They also have two missing or destroyed which they cab fill in at some point I am sure, but the story logic behind it doesn't work for me (just my opinion) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cheex Posted June 14, 2014 Share Posted June 14, 2014 From memory, the old Index Astartes article did mention that the Emperor offered to reinforce Angron with his legion, but Angron refused, stating that he wanted to die for the cause. The Emperor was not willing to let that happen, so teleported him up at the last minute. Â That said, I haven't read Angron's story in HH: Betrayal, so I'm not sure if this has been retconned. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Urauloth Posted June 14, 2014 Share Posted June 14, 2014 The emperor is really kind of stupid. Just look at Monarchia. Â I think it was Rowboat Girlyman who said something like, "The Emperor was a brilliant scientist and an excellent tactician, but he was a terrible father." Â Or was he? How much of his brilliant genetic science was actually space wizard hell dimension cheating tomfoolery, eh? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sheesh Mode Posted June 14, 2014 Share Posted June 14, 2014 Think of it this way guys:  Consider yourself as an immortal being that has existed since 3000BC (or there abouts) and witnessed the rise and fall of everything humanity has EVER done. Now he holds himself back and works from the shadows because he wants to give humanity a chance, let the accomplish the great work for themselves without being shepherded like children.  That plan backfires when the Iron Men show up and is followed with the Dark Age of Technology. ALL of humanities work is gone within an age. There are are warpstorms everywhere and xenos have shown up for the spoils. So, the Emperor decides it's time he takes direct control and - seeing how humanity acts on the whole - whips up an army of super warriors to bring them in line. It works within a couple of years.  Well now the Emperor has the stars to retake, but he can't do it alone, not even he is powerful enough to manage such a massive endeavor. So he goes about creating more of himself: the Primarchs. Yet, just as he is done, chaos swoops in throws them across the Galaxy forcing him to continue his plan without them.  Now consider. You are a thousand year old being with no equal and your one means of creating some peers has literally flown out the window.  So he continues the plan, leading his army of super warriors and eventually finds each of the primarchs as he travels the stars. However, we need to consider something. The Emperor has existed without a real challenge since his creation, and now he has the opportunity, what better way to determine the effectiveness of his work? Furthermore, what better way to know his own strength than to fight something as powerful as he is?  Hence the contests between the Emperor and the Primarchs.  Now, back to why the Emperor just teleported Angron away instead of helping him. Think about it from this ancient beings perspective, he is in the middle of a galaxy spanning war to cement humanities rule of the stars where millions upon millions of humans are being sacrificed to achieve this goal. He does not have time to divert forces to a conflict that has no significance on that scale.  Imagine his frustration at finding his expectations so utterly failed. His son hadn't even managed to take over his own world, let alone build it into a thriving center of military and commercial infrastructure.  I think the Emperor just wanted to put the entire scene behind him and move on. To forget about this backward reject a third failure of his vision. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lucien Eilam Posted June 14, 2014 Share Posted June 14, 2014 From memory, the old Index Astartes article did mention that the Emperor offered to reinforce Angron with his legion, but Angron refused, stating that he wanted to die for the cause. The Emperor was not willing to let that happen, so teleported him up at the last minute. Â No, in the IA article, Angron is offered command of his Legion and a place at the Emperor's side, but refuses to abandon the slaves. It doesn't address why the Emperor didn't help Angron, or why Angron couldn't have accepted and used the War Hounds to win. Â From the Emperor's perspective, the high-riders may have just looked a lot more useful to the Imperium than <1000 barely-sane, cybernetically-enhanced former slaves with dangerous ideas about freedom and justice. Maybe he didn't help the slaves win because he didn't want the slaves to win. In the grand scheme of saving the human race and the entire galaxy, they were irrelevant, while a wealthy, technologically-advanced planet was valuable. Â I don't think the Emperor was particularly interested in concepts like honour and brotherhood, beyond them being useful in his armies, and he'd happily sacrifice trillions to achieve his goals. Look what he did to the Thunder Warriors, for example. Â I also think it's become clear in the HH novels that there was an awful lot more to Angron's fall than an old grudge about De'shea. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CoffeeGrunt Posted June 14, 2014 Share Posted June 14, 2014 Â Â Look what he did to the Thunder Warriors, for example. Â Whatever happened to those guys, anyway? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Demus Ragnok Posted June 15, 2014 Share Posted June 15, 2014    Look what he did to the Thunder Warriors, for example.  Whatever happened to those guys, anyway?   I believe they were allowed to die out due to genetic instabilities/disease and or purged by the early Legions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CoffeeGrunt Posted June 15, 2014 Share Posted June 15, 2014 That sucks. What little fluff I've found on them sounds absolutely badass. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Theis Posted June 15, 2014 Share Posted June 15, 2014 If I'm remembering "The Outcast Dead" correctly, one of the surviving thunder warriors who appeared in the novel, their former commander, made a comment to the effect that the Emperor actually arranged to gather all the thunder warriors who had survived the wars of unification, and had them killed. Â There's more on it in this thread, from when the book was released a couple years ago. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZONKEY Posted June 15, 2014 Author Share Posted June 15, 2014 How did angron lead his legion at first? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quixus Posted June 15, 2014 Share Posted June 15, 2014 He did not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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