Blood Claws with a GK Techmarine

[L30n1d4s]

Now that 7th edition allows allies to ride in each other's transports, I was thinking of a way to run Blood claws more effectively than has been possible in past editions:

 

-13 Blood Claws with one PF

-Attached Arjan Rockfist from Wolf Guard

-Attached Grey Knight Techmarine with Rad Grenades, Nemesis Daemon Hammer, and Servo Harness

-Land Raider Crusader as Transport

 

The Techmarine is attached to provide multiple buffs:

 

1 - Repair HPs/Immobilized results on the Land Raider if required

2 - Psykout grenades reduce enemy Psykers (like Tyranid MCs) to Initiative 1 and Rad Grenades drop enemy toughness by -1

3 - Techmarine has guaranteed access to Hammerhand which, if he gets it off, gives the entire unit +2S

 

So, on a turn that this unit disembarks, successfully casts Hammerhand, and successfully charges, that gives you 10 x S10 AP2 attacks (PF Blood Claw, Techmarine TH, plus Arjac), 2 x S8 AP1 attacks (servo-harness), and 52 x S6 AP- attacks (from the Blood Claws).

 

With the Rad Grenades thrown in, this means that most MEQ models are T3 (so S6 causes ID to them) and even T6 MCs become T5, which means that the 10 x S10 AP2 attacks cause ID to them as well.

 

In terms of objectives, you have a unit with 13 Power Armor models and 2 TDA/Artificer Armor models that have the Objective Secured rule and have mobility/protection of a Land Raider as well, giving them a very strong chance to get where they need to go, either into assault or to a specific objective.

 

Fluff wise, to keep a SW pure theme, you could model the GK Techmarine as a Iron Priest who has Psychic abilities (i.e. kind of a hybrid "Rune Priest/Iron Priest" type character).

[DobbyKroket]

I like the idea

[wulfgar hammerfist]

Nice idea but very expensive!

[Valerian]

Add up the points.  How much does this unit cost?

[Squark]

Halberd not a hammer for the techmarine. Feels like you're paying death star price for something that doesn't handle wraithknights, dreadknights, and gargantuan monstrous creatures well.

[skeletoro]

well, they'd be strength 6 with hammerhand. With their volume of attacks, and with rad grenades, toughness 8 would be wounded on a 5+.. Not too bad against high toughness foes, again considering volume of attacks.

 

 

 

that said, arjac plus the techmarine will cost more than the blood claws!! Is arjac necessary?

[skeletoro]

How about dropping arjac and taking a storm raven, and a cheap dread?

[Squark]

How about dropping arjac and taking a storm raven, and a cheap dread?

You lose the volume of attacks. And the real danger with the monsters is invisibility, which they can get 50-75% of the time.

[logun]

 

How about dropping arjac and taking a storm raven, and a cheap dread?

You lose the volume of attacks. And the real danger with the monsters is invisibility, which they can get 50-75% of the time.

 

 

how does the wolf tooth necklace affect invisibilty, it states they always hit on a 3+ in close combat.

[Squark]

We have no official ruling. But even if it does, you need a high strength weapon (powerfist at least, preferably S10), which means you're I1. So you want an invulnerable save, eternal warrior, and preferably three wounds. So, Wolf lords or someone with a lot of meatshields.

[Sturm Moonwolf]

I'd add Lukas for that 'lil extra...if you gonna go all in, go all in

[Squark]

Lukas is not a good idea. With the changes to challenges (Characters in challenges are still in base to base with everything they touch, now), he's too much of a liability.

[logun]

We have no official ruling. But even if it does, you need a high strength weapon (powerfist at least, preferably S10), which means you're I1. So you want an invulnerable save, eternal warrior, and preferably three wounds. So, Wolf lords or someone with a lot of meatshields.

 

we probably have the most options out of any codex. 

[skeletoro]

I don't really think 'it can't handle invisibility' really counts against it, much. What CAN handle invisibility?

[Leif Bearclaw]

Just a slight error with the techmarine attacks. Servo arms are now 'merely' AP1 powerfists, they count as CCWs and don't strike separately from the model. So it'd be 4 attacks from the techmarine overall, 2 profile, +1 for charging, +1 for 2 ccws

[Squark]

I don't really think 'it can't handle invisibility' really counts against it, much. What CAN handle invisibility?

Mostly? A lot of high strength instant death attacks. So, mostly Grey Knight terminators

[skeletoro]

As far as I can tell, strength and ID have no special advantage against invis..?

[Squark]

High chance of wounding, and only need one wound. Maximize your odds.

 

 

Also, I can't help but feel this is just replicating a unit that's already in Codex: Grey knights, and one that's cheaper and arguably better at what it does (Death cult assassins and crusaders come stock with power weapons, a better WS, and invulnerable saves).

[skeletoro]

I still don't get it.

 

With either case, you have an expected damage output (number of wounds caused, or whatever metric you want to use) without invisibility. Now, it may be that Grey Knights do more to hurt wraithknights before invisibility - though I haven't done the calculation.

 

Whatever the relative standing of those two builds, all invisibility does is divide the expected result by 3 (you're hitting on a 6 rather than 4+). If grey knights were already better, they still 3are. If the blood claws were, then they still are.

 

That's in terms of average, expected outcome. One side may have higher variance (be more streaky) - perhaps the grey knights because they have fewer dice and can inflict instant death. But expected wounds inflicted is probably the easiest (to calculate) and most informative single measure to use.

[Squark]

The difference is probably just one of firepower (against the offending giant normally, that many High Strength ID attacks is overkill, unless we're talking Gargantuan Monstrous Creatures with Feel No Pain. Which, in a number of metagames, we are, but I digress). Against a suitably monstrous foe, reducing the number of wounds that need to get through from 4-6 to 1 gives the Grey Knight Terminators an edge people who were relying on weight of attacks don't have (especially since the Terminators don't always need Force online. Since, you know, S10 hammers).

 

 

Still, we're getting off topic. My point was that the easiest way to deal with Invisibility is usually a High strength Force weapon (Or, if it's a demon, a Rune Priest :) )

[skeletoro]

Yeah, the overkill point is a good one.

 

Really, ID is pretty useless against most foes and (only?) doubles output vs most others. Against a wraithknight or monstrous creature though, I can really see it being great.

 

I'm a bit surprised though... do they for the most part rely on t6+ and lack eternal warrior?

 

Man, I kind of want to roll some beast slayer biomancy rune priests against chaos daemon now, haha.

 

Ok I'll stop the hijack.

[Squark]

Wraithknights and their little brothers are T8, there's a handful of T7 out there (Kronos Pain Engines and C'tan shards are the only ones that comes to mind, but I'm sure there are others), and Spyders, Riptides, and Most Tyranid Giants are T6, while Daemons run the gamut of Toughness from T5 to 8-9 with Biomancy. Only a few, if any of those, have eternal warrior, but the real danger are the Gargantuans, who all come stock with it. Of course, since many of them have feel no pain, you still want instant death to shut that off.