Imperial Knight army.... (insert explicative of your choice)

[Nova_chron]

So earlier this week I played a game against a knight primary detachment, all I have to say is this particular fellow at my FLGS will find it hard to get a game any longer.

 

Perhaps I am just being that guy but when you field 3 knights and a stormwing as your whole army, not many people want to play to begin with. This character tho was a very poor sport about it, as he spent the first two turns complaining that I brought 17 melta weapons against him and used stealth in ruins, and multi levels to survive 5 instant death blasts a turn while maneuvering for range. In short he tabled me and then tried to say the list is not overpowered,I was effectively tabled turn 3...

 

Ranting asside what have you guys thought of to deal with this type of army?

[Shaezus]

I feel your pain brother! We had a guy use 3 knights in a regional tourny last month..he wasn't much liked and our group has put a limit of one on them since then. Their stomp in assault rule seriously needs changing.

I used drop pod dreads and guard allies with manticores and lascannons, deal with one or two no problem but I would say the best strategy vs three knights is..just don't play him. 'specially if he is a googledyflugeldy about it.

[Templar1]

I'm sorry, but fielding three knights just doesn't seem like it would be fun at all, playing as the list, or against it.

[thepowerofwar]

I have yet to play against them( mostly due to avoiding them), but i have watch several games with my friends playing against them and i still don't feel that the fit in a normal 40k game. The last game i watched 1 Knight walked threw half a 2k nid army before a pack of carifexes took it down but they took a lot of wounds to do it. With the new damage chart they got stronger as well. I wouldn't mind them as much if they counted as a normal walker with 5 HP but with the super heavy thing i want nothing to do with them. So I am still going to try and keep up the avoidance of them. 

[Nova_chron]

Yeah I will not be playing them again, at least not until I have a volcano cannon or two on my side of the table...

[Demoulius]

I think the OP is saying that it isent fun to play against :)

 

but tournament players might be facing suchlike lists...

 

As odd as it sounds I think the best solution against them is combat. problem is only hammernators have any hope of combating them somewhat effectivly and they expensive and probably will be shot at alot if your opponent gets a chance.... 

 

Whats probably more effective is very short ranged combat. Melta weapons are your friend in this case as they melt through the armor quite quikly.

 

OR...... fight fire with fire. Strenght D toting gun of somekind protected by a forcefield (or 3) allowing you to actually survive the first turn and do some damage back. Focus on 1 knight at a time and hope you outlast them.... On another note, a full knight list has NO chance in an objective scenario.... So so long as you have 1 or 2 models left to score with at the end of the game you should win the match up

[Morticon]

They should defs be normal walkers with 6HP as opposed to super heavies.  

 

That being said, all is not lost.  

 

The Knight's weaknesses are airborne.  2 Ravens (with bashy dreads?) are a great way to deal with them. 

Also, the changes to D-weapons mean that Inv saves can still be taken in combat, meaning Hammer-nators are excellent -as are Legion of the Damned. 

 

Melta pod vets /hg are also a decent option considering you can take out one of these bad boys with 4 meltas. That means MM Attack Bikes are also hot property.

With a priest nearby, those bikers are getting their jink, and/or their FNP.

 

Then we have Vanguard vets.  You can tool up a squad to have 3 shields, and 6 or so MBs and do some serious damage off the charge. 

 

BA have the tools to deal with these guys :_

[gomericus]

I have five knights,,that I built previous to them coming out in real kits and having rules,after reading over their codex,the only time I will field them is in apoc games. The new kits are amazing,but do not belong in a normal game,,,,but that being said,sure I would let someone use them,,,,Grins and plops down a shadowsword.

[Nova_chron]

That is my plan for the future Gomericus :)

[ServoBadger]

I'm glad I read this topic.  My first GW game was Adeptus Titanicus, where you had experience tables and could come up with fluff for your Titan Legion that developed as you played games with them, and I liked the idea of doing something similar with a Knight running alongside my BAs.  I know you can do that with individual marines - I had a PF Sergeant that punched Old One Eye to death last night, he was epic - but they're so much less durable.  Last night's hero is only one failed save away from being the first kill of the next game, after all!

 

...but I don't want to be That Guy.  So probably no Knight for me!

[librisrouge]

I've faced, and beaten, knights a few times and it isn't to hard but you can't count on the two meltas in an assault squad to do it alone. Consider hammer terminators in a raider with a priest. You're not too likely to lose anybody to its standard attacks and you'll deal an average I'd four HPs damage to it, assuming none of the pens did extra and the land raider was sitting on its duff. Knights aren't good against AV14, which is how I've beaten them with IG, and are expensive. Those terminators should still have 3-4 men to work with a hold up the next knight.

 

I know BA don't have him but I've seen Lysander stand up to and beat two knights on his own, having lost his body guard to their shooting. I also saw one make the mistake of charging an IG blob with five melta bombs. Lots of guardsmen died but the explosion was spectacular! Think along that toughness and strength and you're good.

[Nova_chron]

Yeah I want to try and have mephiston 1v1 a knight for the lulz and I will be building my hammernator squad up to 7 strong soon just need to buy another box

@JustinB one knight acting in concert with your army is not bad at all and I have enjoyed those games. This rant was geared towards primary knight armies where you put 3+ knights on the table as your while army

[Shaezus]

One knight as part of an army is fun to play against. The first time I played against one I wondered why my oppo had deployed the rest of his army as far away from the knight as was almost possible...then he showed me that critical explosion template and I understood :D

[Demoulius]

How many points are these things actually? Im thinking of getting one soon(ish)^tm

And I mean for use alongside an army :p not instead of one

[librisrouge]

370 or 375

 

The weakening of D weapons really brought them more in line. The big problem with them is the same complaint I get a lot from people who play my six Russ lists. Nobody likes it when multiple units in their army are rendered unable to contribute and an army of super heavies, however light by comparison they might be, renders many units useless.

[JamesI]

I have five knights,,that I built previous to them coming out in real kits and having rules,after reading over their codex,the only time I will field them is in apoc games. The new kits are amazing,but do not belong in a normal game,,,,but that being said,sure I would let someone use them,,,,Grins and plops down a shadowsword.

The first time I used my knight, I faced a Shadowsword.  My knight died real fast.

[librisrouge]

That was probably when D weapons denied invulnerable saves. Knights have much better odds now that their Ion save is back in play. Like most of 6th and 7th editions, weight of fire is critical.

[JamesI]

That was probably when D weapons denied invulnerable saves. Knights have much better odds now that their Ion save is back in play. Like most of 6th and 7th editions, weight of fire is critical.

yes, it was in 6th.  Haven't used it yet in 7th.

[Demoulius]

What the.... SD ignored invul saves? I thought it was just armor and cover?

[Black_Sky]

In sixth D weapons were overpowered as all means of defense were thrown out the window. Good thing it was reeled in this edition.

[Jolemai]

Brothers, have courage.

• Did our ancestors scream "NERF!" when Ka'Banda broke our father's back?
• Did Sanguinius himself call the amassing Traitors outside the Imperial Palace "OP!", or did he call for a GM when the arch-heretic was using a cheat code on his battle barge?
• More recently, did the late Brother-Captain Eramus Tycho of the third company cry (anything other than manly tears of joy) at the tide of Xenos filth on Armageddon?

The answer is no, they did not.

Take a loss on the chin and learn from it. Work out their weakness and evolve your "all comers" army lists to be able to exploit them for if they cannot, then they aren't worthy of being called "all comers". Alternatively, tailor a list to specifically beat them and wipe the smile of your smug opponent's face.

Above, there are already examples of what we can do. However:

• Flyers are a Knight's weakness. We have the best Flyer in the game and when specced to Twin-linked Multi-Melta and Twin-linked Assault Cannon it will give them (and anything else) a headache
• We currently have an obscene amount of Melta available to us. Attack Bikes are good value but don't forget about deepstriking, dual-Multi Melta Land Speeders
• Devastators with Multi Meltas and/or Lascannons are seeing a resurgence and are invaluable here. Purchase the extra "red shirts" or even a transport (Rhino=bunker, Razorback=extra shot)
• Drop a Fragioso in behind the Knight to give them a shield-facing headache. Laugh out loud when your Magna Grapple works and then unload with your Melta Gun and two Frag Cannon shots
• Forgeworld has a plethora of toys we can use. Fire Raptors make Stormravens look poor, Rapiers are often overlooked but their Laser Destroyers are ace and cost ten points more than a Multi-Melta Attack Bike, Relic Sicarans are like our Auto-las configured Destructors, but on steroids - they have the speed to get around the armour and cause the damage required, and that's before we look at the super-heavy options for Space Marines.
• The humble Inquisitor with Divination is a boon to any army; they are worth a look

There is also tactics.

• Each weapon has a large blast. Mitigate these by spreading out. The Thermal Cannon is one shot, so it should only hit one tank. The rapid-fire Battle Cannon has two shots. If you Combat Squad your Marines you will not lose many.
• Use Citadelarmyguy's "blast weapon" formation to only allow a few of the squad to be under the template. 
• Play to the mission in queston. You will outscore him so always be mindful of the task at hand.
• Use cover, use multiple floors where possible.
• Prioritise your targets. The Thermal Cannon has a range of 36" whereas the RFBC has a range of 72". Be mindful of your enemy.
• You will dominate the new Psychic Phase, use it to your advantage

Chaos Imperial Knights are just another challenge we must conquer in an ever-evolving 40k and one we are capable of doing better than others. Yes, it may not be fun to get stomped by a list comprising of Knights but when you do finally beat them, the feeling will be worth it.

[Jolemai]

Just to add, the rules for the Cerastus Knight-Lancer can be found here. This chap will rush into combat as soon as possible but is prone to attacks from the rear. Use that to your advantage with suicide units or alternatively, feed it speed bumps of red shirts.

[Nova_chron]

I am already working on vanvet squads with melta bombs 5 in one round of combat should be good I hope

[Jolemai]

Seven VVs is ideally the minimal amount as the seventh model is the one that starts the second concentric circle and thus, gives you that extra bit of charge range. Perhaps give one a Storm Shield to soak up any incoming firepower in addition to everyone a Melta Bomb and you may well be fine. Perhaps a Power Fist if points allow? Also, don't forget to toss that Krak Grenade in the Shooting Phase as you never know!

[Morticon]

I think the Raven will actually be much, much better against a Knight army than a Raptor here. 

 

They have the S8, AP1 shots a TL-MM and then either the AC or the LC - really good for busting Knights.  Then, they can carry a bashy dread or Terms which can finish off the knight!