Forté Posted June 16, 2014 Share Posted June 16, 2014 Chill out henrywalker. It's not about discrediting certain army lists but what would serve the community better. Currently the Chaos boards are pretty slow for new topics that receive replies. For example, I have a thread in the Slaanesh forum which does get replies but I think there are only 6 active threads in there. I'm guessing the others have more but not by loads. The Vraks list is very niche too. A lot of people don't even have access to the books with the list in and while I agree it's nice to have a place for it what you would also find is that posting with the Chaos mortal stuff you would likely get more replies, input, and people interested in Vraks as a viable possibility for some good army options. Think of the bigger picture because while a small focused forum can be good, how many people have missed your threads due to not looking in that sub forum? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
henrywalker Posted June 16, 2014 Share Posted June 16, 2014 I'd quite like to have specific access to a small group that focuses on and has experience in the issues I want to discuss, if I post in main chaos board it gets swamped Also your argument is exactly why there should be a forum for all traitor guard/mechanicus. They all fit together well and allow a large enough group of users to make the forum worth while however they keep the 'humany' stuff to itself so it doesn't get lost amongst all the power armour. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Forté Posted June 16, 2014 Share Posted June 16, 2014 So you're suggesting: +Chaos Marines+ +Daemons+ +Traitor Astra/Dark Mechanicus+ Could work if more traitor AM/Vraks and Dark Mech users would speak up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
henrywalker Posted June 16, 2014 Share Posted June 16, 2014 Yes exactly. Seems the best and simplest way of dividing it all up Main chaos guys in power armour that the forums supposed to be about Daemon supporters. Human supporters Surely that's most logical Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tenebris Posted June 16, 2014 Share Posted June 16, 2014 I think it is not. First because it is a niche army and FW specific, traitor guard was only acknowledged by GW in the Eye of Terror book, as it is now not even a mention of renegade Astra Militarum bar the Volscani is in the book. By all accounts and purposes the AM is an Imperial army and thus it should be on the imperial boards. The reasoning is not that I have something against traitor guard but to simply allow a post to have more views and feedback. As it is now, if someone wants some feedback on a Chaos army, regardless of legion/renegade or daemon, the go to forum is the Chaos Ascendant for it has the most of active members of the Chaos community. There you get feedback, there you get the deserved attention. Even widely known armies such as traitor legions aka World Eaters, Thousand Sons... they have their own board but they are usually marginalized due to lack of people who actually participate on those boards. To give a strong identity to the renegade/traitor guard I think that the general Chaos board for mortal armies would be the best option. More people will read your posts, more feedback will be heading your way and the added bonus would be to promote the traitor guard. I find it highly unlikely to roll a single board for what is effectively a supplemental, and at this stage a very niche, army. But to help this army take flight in the Chaos community it would be great to write of it on a general board so that the majority of the Chaos community members will see it and write/question/post about it. But truth be told we must follow the main books since they are the core rules which represent our faction. Chaos Space Marines and Chaos Daemons, expanded with Cultists, Traitor Guard, Traitor Knights, Dark Mechanicus... Effectively, Codex Chaos Space Marines is the codex for Cultists, Daemon Engines, Traitor Legions, Renegade SM Chapters... with only a loophole in the main rules of the 7th edition actually granting us the use of Astra Militarum and Imperial Knights. Understand the use of those two armies as a merciful concession and not as a norm or a tip of hat to a faction and its background. Overall, the goal should be to strengthen the Chaos ranks and support the community, allowing it to grow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kol Saresk Posted June 16, 2014 Share Posted June 16, 2014 I think we should worry about the traffic issue. One of the problems the Chaos Community is facing the amount of traffic, specifically the lack thereof. We have seven subforums(counting the Chaos Army Lists subforum) and we see enough traffic for two maybe? Three if we push the limits of definition? And I'm pretty sure that's being rather liberal already. I do not know how much traffic the Vraks lists see in the AM/IG subforums, so maybe those who frequent those topics can answer better than I can. Is there enough traffic to warrant what would end up being six forums(three discussion, three army lists)? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
henrywalker Posted June 16, 2014 Share Posted June 16, 2014 So i should go to the AM forum and post questions like "how do i deal with deploying my leman russ 12 inches from the rest of my army" or "would a davy weapons platoon supplement my obliterator squads fire" or "i'm looking for ideas to convert my guardsmen to look tzeentchy" ? they don't fit there, they are for chaos players to answer. lets have a forum for all those questions about how imperial guard relates to chaos and how WE can play imperial guard. Then lets add our own specific flavours of imperial guard such as vraks and tyrants legion. We could even include knights and all the other imperial goodies that we use in RELATION to chaos, we don't use them like imperials do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sception Posted June 16, 2014 Share Posted June 16, 2014 Renegades discussion can stick to wherever an individual poster feels most comfortable putting it - the loyalist AM board, or just the chaos undivided board. There is no reason to get hyper picky about it, renegade guard posts are not an issue currently, so sectioning them off or corralling them to a particular existing area is a solution in search of a problem. Trust the individual renegade guard posters to decide whether a topic fits better on the AM board or the chaos board. As for vraks renegades, they're terrible and mostly outdated rules, if cool thematically, with few active players. And even if they do get updated later this year (fingers crossed!), let's be honest - they'll still probably be terrible, as like as not worse than they already are, and regardless, they're FW exclusive content, which means that even if the rules for them are great, discussion of them still probably won't generate the kind of traffic that would justify a separate subforum. One discussion board for chaos mortals (including CSMs, vraks stuff, and more chaos leaning renegade AM lists), one for chaos daemons, and one army list subforum for chaos in general - daemons and mortals alike. That's all we really need right now. If things change in the future and chaos needs more space, then things can change again, but for now? having even as many subforums as we have is just clutter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kol Saresk Posted June 16, 2014 Share Posted June 16, 2014 Why can't you do that in the regular Chaos forums though? If you restrict yourself to only a TG specific subforum, will those same questions get more exposure, or less? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tenebris Posted June 16, 2014 Share Posted June 16, 2014 And answer they will if the post being about a relatively niche army would be posted either on the general Chaos board or in the Astra section since things about a Leman Russ belong there. But I doubt many will answer, or even see your post in a separate section which would overall get little in terms of activity. Remember at this stage only the Chaos Ascendant board is somehow working, the others see some activity from time to time but most of the posts are in the Ascendant one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Forté Posted June 16, 2014 Share Posted June 16, 2014 If you could swing other Traitor Guard/Vraks/Dark Mech players to this discussion it would really help you because so far you seem to be the only one speaking up. I'm guessing that is more due to them not looking in the Chaos forum which also does prove a point about traffic too. Send them in to have their say because B&C is here for all but by staying silent they may miss out on an opportunity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teetengee Posted June 16, 2014 Share Posted June 16, 2014 I think we should keep the forums as is for now, it is helpful to just look through Nurgle or Slaanesh when I am looking for inspiration from those gods. Also has anyone ever had a problem posting traitor guard/vraks/knights questions in the general chaos forum. I know I have seen some posts about them there and that seemed like a good place for it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
incinerator950 Posted June 16, 2014 Share Posted June 16, 2014 Well technically we're supposed to be here for power armored factions. Obviously that's alleviated because of allies and forgeworld. I would love more traffic from whatever source, I'm just focusing on where the majority of posters are. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tenebris Posted June 16, 2014 Share Posted June 16, 2014 As it is, we are dispersing the activity in too many sub-boards, three boards should be enough to concentrate the Chaos members and build up some activity. Better three good boards than seven or so scarce. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stormborn Posted June 16, 2014 Share Posted June 16, 2014 As a sporadic poster and reader of the CSM boads which are quite slow moving. I'd agree with most 3 boards sounds about right mortals & CSM, Daemons, army lists ans should hopefully boost the pace a little. Can't see that Vraks needs a special board all for itself as I've only seen 2 members asking for it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
henrywalker Posted June 16, 2014 Share Posted June 16, 2014 why are army lists considered A) worthy of there own section and B) not necessary to sort. Why would we have separate forums to discuss daemons and power armour but then one forum for both their army lists? i know they can be mixed but it still doesn't seem right and if you have an army list that is completely mixed i see nothing wrong with posting it in both forums so both factions can take a look at it from their own perspectives. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dark_Apostle_XVII Posted June 16, 2014 Share Posted June 16, 2014 As another Traitor Guard player, and one who is relatively new to this forum, I would love to see a separate Traitor Guard category where we can all get inspiration for our projects and share our ideas and fluff. When I started out I was looking for something like this myself and found it very hard to come by so can definitely see the benefit, particularly for those players like myself who run our armies using AM (not Forge World as I agree they are quite niche). There is not really a place for Traitor Guard. I have been posting all my stuff in the IG forum as I guess that's the only place it belongs but it would be nice to have a proper place for it alongside Chaos. Saying that though, I also see the need to be cautious about that. There aren't many traitor guard players and as cool as its own forum would be, I doubt it would get the numbers as many have said and I am still very happy in the IG forum, I have had some great feedback from the guys there (despite being imperialists ;-) ). But equally, it would still be nice to be part of the Chaos collective. Perhaps a compromise would be better, where there is a place for traitor guard, which relies on Moderators being less quick to move a topic. For example, if I want to know how to equip my traitor vets or bullgryns, i'll go to the IG forum and ask as its just about their codex, but if I want to ask about how CSM and AM work as allies, or put up my project log, let me post that in the Chaos forums without it getting moved. Plus, would there be a possibility to see Traitor AM included as part of the Chaos ETL? Again, I have been more than happy to play for the Guard this year, but it would be nice to have all the chaos players together even if we don't use Vraks. Perhaps something similar to the Imperial knights would be in order, allowing them to spread across forums? We can use points from C:AM when pledging for Chaos as long as we are obviously making them Traitorous - or maybe even a choice of where to pledge them. As great as an independent forum would be, it would not get the traffic to justify it - having it all in one place is handy, but will be regretted if no one bothers to visit it. Thus, a new Chaos forum which in which traitor guard are welcome, not just CSM might be the best course. A forum where all aspects of chaos can come together as one including Daemon Knights, Dark Mechanicus and Traitor AM which will in turn increase the general Chaos traffic and benefit everyone. Then in the future, if the number of traitor guardsmen picks up, maybe their own forum would be worth it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Forté Posted June 16, 2014 Share Posted June 16, 2014 Too late to add Traitor AM for the ETL (though the Vraks lists were available) but mention it to Captain Semper so he can make note of it ;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Uprising Posted June 16, 2014 Share Posted June 16, 2014 I Play traitor guard, but I feel that the lack of rules and player base warrants no sub forum for them. If we get a new lost and the damned codex or Forgeworld new chaos book does increase it popularity, we could always add it in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dark_Apostle_XVII Posted June 16, 2014 Share Posted June 16, 2014 I meant for next year, but thanks. It is mainly as I don't use Forge World and I like the new AM units so wanted to use what I actually play instead of relying on others to point my vows together from books I don't have ;) You know what I mean though, it would be nice to have a forum where all aspects of chaos are together making traitor guard more welcome and giving them a proper home. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Forté Posted June 16, 2014 Share Posted June 16, 2014 I meant for next year, but thanks. It is mainly as I don't use Forge World and I like the new AM units so wanted to use what I actually play instead of relying on others to point my vows together from books I don't have ;) You know what I mean though, it would be nice to have a forum where all aspects of chaos are together making traitor guard more welcome and giving them a proper home. So maybe a combined Chaos forum would work then. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dark_Apostle_XVII Posted June 16, 2014 Share Posted June 16, 2014 Definitely, it's what I was saying (in a rather long winded way) above. I can see the appeal of a traitor guard forum but everyone has said and I agree it won't be popular enough to make it worth while. So a combined chaos forum would be great, just something to bring traitor guard and chaos together so we are not stuck with the loyalists. This will give other non power armoured chaos forces a home too and bring all us traitors together in one larger, greater forum where more can contribute. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nehekhare Posted June 16, 2014 Share Posted June 16, 2014 get lost amongst all the power armour. there is power armor in chaos armies? haven't seen any in a while... oh hey, by the way, another reorganization proposal: -Chaos Army Lists -Complaint thread all fronts covered ;P Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Tyler Posted June 16, 2014 Author Share Posted June 16, 2014 Okay, the consensus is that the expanded reorganization is unnecessary.We'll consider the other ideas that have been put forth.Thanks to everyone for providing your input. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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