Trying to choose between DA and C:SM; new player

[HaeMonkulus]

I should preface this by saying I'm not an entirely new player.  Back in 4th edition (or was it 3rd?)  I played Sisters, and spent most of my time rolling around in Rhinos and Immolators doing drive-by flamings.  I haven't played since the turn of the millennium, and have long since sold my SoB army.  The very nice models in DV brought me back to 40k (I'm already building a Chaos army from the DV set), and I'd like to start a loyalist army.  My problem is, that though I've read a lot of the 7th edition rules, I don't know much about the developing metagame.  So I am hoping to rely on the collective wisdom here to help me figure out an army that fits my preferences and playstyle.  So here goes: 

 

I really like Terminators.  (So, Deathwing?  Strike Force Ultra?)  I like the DW models better, along with the better variety of Terminators in a squad, but there's just something about an entire squad of Thunder Hammers wading into battle ... 

I want to have some fun during the assault phase (but not interested in Blood Angels--I'm building a Dante/Sanguinary army as a side project).  I have read around the net that Marines shouldn't be getting into close combat ... ? 

 

Either way I go I'm going for an emphasis on Terminators, relying on DCs (a land raider and a storm raven) and a Dread for some shooty support.  For bigger games I'll ally in my Sanguinary Guard units with Dante, or adding an Inquisitor and retinue with a DC.  So would DA or C:SM be more reliable here?  

 

 

So, suggestions?

[Pbenner]

Hey bud,

 

I'll throw my hat in the ring on this opinion; but I want to preface this by saying I have a Terminator Problem, you can look at the link in my Signature to see the extent of my problem, it shows it well.

 

If I was building my army from scratch, this is what I would do right now, added to your DV Terminators;

 

1) Strike Force Ultra - Add to this a pair of Auto Cannons or Las Cannons to make the Dread into a Mortis, trade the Stormraven for a second Land Raider Crusader if you can.  

2) Deathwing Terminator Box (Use this to bling out a squad with the bits, or buy two to do it twice, gets you to 30 terminators, 20 rank and file, a Command Squad, and DW Knights are possible at this point.)  Also gives you a CML, a Plasma Cannon, and a second Assault Cannon so you have plenty of heavy weapon options.  

 

You can use the commander as trade fodder to get a Belial + more, or as your Belial to start.  

 

Once you have this, you're well on your way to 1850 Deathwing.  

 

Paul

[Larhendiel]

Beauty of having space marines is that you can use DA models and play as i.e raven guard if you fancy their tactics.

Or you can just buy the space marine toys you want like stormraven gunship or centurions and ally with DA. In 7th you can even embark transports of each other

[SvenONE]

Yeah you can easily paint them whatever colors you want and play with either codex.  The only thing that will hold you back are say things like centurions which we don't have access to.  Otherwise there's no harm in playing either codex with the same set of models.  

[Larhendiel]

but then..... We have slightly expensive but still terminator troops, plasma bikers, plasma cannon jetbike, knights that with S10 will munch through any super heavies turn they charge, elite ezekiel/azrael bomb in the middle of enemy with power weapons plasma pistols and for happines of our nemies you can shoot the crap and then make them invisible or 3 LRC with banner of devastation and power field generator av14 4++ vehicles anyone?? And most of all; prescience

 

Our codex would be most awesome ever if we had stormtalon, storm raven and centurions.

It actually would be OP imho.

 

But the secret is..... allies

[Noxnoctis22]

I asked somewhat the same question a few weeks ago. I was trying to decide on my 2nd army, my first being a RG army. Below are the 2 posts where DA and C:SM stated their cases.

 

C:SM

http://www.bolterandchainsword.com/topic/291505-csm-possibly-my-next-army/

 

DA

http://www.bolterandchainsword.com/topic/291504-da-possibly-my-next-army/

 

I ended up picking DA and I'm in the process of purchasing my first round of models. Most likely DA from the DV Box Set.

[Disciple of Caliban Sgt]

Haha...................we even have Noxnoctis peddling our crack now! Muahahahahahahaha!.....................Heads off to cell 42 and stands outside the door waiting for the Chaplains.

[Larhendiel]

Just beware of one thing....

we're overpriced in ym opinion. With our codexes you'll have lots of fun I believe. But if you want to win.... Necrons and Tau are your best bet I believe.

Out of maybe like 30 games against crons I won 4, by a margin of 1-4 points.

[Prot]

I play both Chaos and Dark Angels quite a bit... and in 7th edition.

 

My personal experience is I find Chaos easier to play than Dark Angels. Units like BaleDrake and Obliterators for instance are in every competetive list. What Dark Angels units are in EVERY competitive list? (Good luck figuring that out!)

 

On a competitive level in 7th I give the nudge to Chaos... BUT that being said I put both armies neck and neck with very good players on both sides of the table.

 

I want to just say that one thing that brings both of these armies some saving grace in 7th is Malestrom missions. In fact I think Malestrom saves 40K for me as I'm just tired as heck of 'stand back and shoot' armies.

 

7th edition still promotes shooting far more than assaulting. So don't get your priorities messed up. (We are still miles away from what 3rd edition gave us)

 

At the end of the day, realize that you are comparing two bottom feeders in the most competitive arenas. So you better have FUN with your decision.

 

 

P.S.

I haven't lost with my Necrons in 7th edition yet. They got a great boost from Jink and the fact Glancing is even more important in 7th than 6th. But the army does not give me the character, nor satisfaction of winning with Dark Angels. Just a personal observation.

[Noxnoctis22]

Haha...................we even have Noxnoctis peddling our crack now! Muahahahahahahaha!.....................Heads off to cell 42 and stands outside the door waiting for the Chaplains.

 

Can I have cell 22? I heard it's got a fantastic view!

 

Sold 4 out of my 5 Ork auctions on eBay this weekend. More than enough to get my DA army started. Just need to find time to actually paint....

[Disciple of Caliban Sgt]

Good luck on the painting time. I believe Chaplain Lucifer holds cell 22 as a time share so if he's on a off week you can probably get it for the low low price of a traitors soul.

 

I've been looking at the Necrons and if I ever get my DA, Crimson Fists, Crimson Slaughter and Tau Enclaves painted (plus a few daemons on the side) I may actually buy some Necrons. But by then I will very old and very shaky on the painting front.

DoC

[HaeMonkulus]

Thanks for all the help!

I am leaning heavily towards DA, after reading replies here and the linked threads. Now, given that I have three small children and a demanding job, by the time I get an army painted we'll be into 8th edition.

As far as picking winning armies, even if I did go with Eldar or another top-tier army, I am not going to have the time to play often enough to justify having a winning army I don't really want, because I wouldn't win against competitive players who play all the time anyway. I'd much rather collect and paint an army whose story and models I love, and enjoy the challenge of playing them.

The one real drawback about DA is I just don't like the robes. I think they cover up the cool armor. But I've already figured that out--I have a squad of forgeworld Horus Heresy-era Phoenix Terminators, with all kinds of wing motifs on the armor. I take the shields and melee weapons from my DW termie box and voila--Deathwing Knights!

So to summarize--with what I'm reading, if I like the assault phase, I'm probably better off going with DA than vanilla marines?

Also, what's the opinion on a DA chapter that departs radically from the codex paint schemes?

[Noxnoctis22]

 

Also, what's the opinion on a DA chapter that departs radically from the codex paint schemes?  

 

I plan on departing radically as you put it from the DA color schemes. My color scheme will tie back to the core of DA. 3 colors, one for DW, RW and plain old marines. Still playing with the SM Painter. I say paint them the way you like. Much more fun when you enjoy painting them the way you want.

[Azoriel]

So to summarize--with what I'm reading, if I like the assault phase, I'm probably better off going with DA than vanilla marines?

I'm not sure where you got this from - everyone is saying that 7th Edition as a whole is friendlier to assault than 6th edition was, not that the Dark Angels favor assault.  Historically (since 3rd Edition with the intractable rule), the Dark Angels have always preferred shooting over assault but don't have a strong bias for or against either.

 

 

Also, what's the opinion on a DA chapter that departs radically from the codex paint schemes?  

 

 

The Angels of Vigilance use yellow with black robes, whereas the Guardians of the Covenant use a silver with red robes, so there's already some precedence if you don't want to end up looking like one of the other successor chapters.