Scouring Forces

[Tiger9gamer]

So I'm thinking about building an HH army, but I'm planning on my army made so it's the later half/end of the HH and beginning of the scouring. I know the codex crisis happened and everything  but it wasn't suddenly a "Poof, your army is now Codex Space Marines" now was it? anyways my plan is to have a RG decapitating strike army that goes around solving problems and attacking traitors during this era, using legion tactics rather than codex.

 

would this idea work?

[Black Cohort]

I doubt that things went from legions to fully codex chapters overnight, between the communication issues that the imperium of man has and the general chaos going on in the heresy/ scouring it was probably years before most stuff got sorted out. And if you are off on the fringes it could take significantly longer, particularly if you are avoiding the issue for as long as possible.

[Marshal Loss]

My impression was that the Codex Astartes came about after The Scouring, once everything had calmed down somewhat. Might be wrong, although I remember that the Iron Cage was what made Dorn capitulate

[Conn Eremon]

I think some Legions adopted it pretty quickly. The Ultramatines pretty much did go 'poof!' into Successors.

[Hyaenidae]

I think some Legions adopted it pretty quickly. The Ultramatines pretty much did go 'poof!' into Successors.

 

There's a short story in Sedition's Gate basically showing an Ultramarine Praetor already wearing the heraldry of the Novamarines, given the honour of doing so after a battle during the Shadow Crusade. He was awarded the right to do so by Guilliman, Lion El'Johnson, and 'Emperor' Sanguinius.

[Conn Eremon]

 

 

I think some Legions adopted it pretty quickly. The Ultramatines pretty much did go 'poof!' into Successors.

There's a short story in Sedition's Gate basically showing an Ultramarine Praetor already wearing the heraldry of the Novamarines, given the honour of doing so after a battle during the Shadow Crusade. He was awarded the right to do so by Guilliman, Lion El'Johnson, and 'Emperor' Sanguinius.

. . . I need that book.

[Relict]

I would imagine a Scouring Era force of Loyalists (and especially Raven Guard) to be more ad hoc in organization. Given the fact that the years of the Horus Heresy having taken their toll, I envision an interesting mix of armor marks (anything between II and VI goes), mismatched weapons, and a lot of wear and tear in general. 

 

Be an interesting project, since the Loyalist Legionaries of the Scouring Era are basically the ones that are tough/lucky enough to survive. 

[Hyaenidae]

....And ticked off. Seriously ticked off. A resurgent Imperium is a scary thing, when you're on the losing side.

 

I'm really hoping for some FW campaigns focusing on the fall of the Iron Empire around Olympia, and of course the Iron Cage.

 

Woot. Fingers crossed.

[Conn Eremon]

And exhausted. Seriously exhausted. The Scouring has always intrigued me. The idea of the Imperium, after suffering the worst defeat in its history, a defeat that would have and should have proved its death knell, had it not been for the tenacity of those who survived, continuing its no holds barred, all in and all out civil war against Traitors who were in the same situation as they.

 

Honestly, it's a wonder that humanity didn't implode and self-destruct as the Cabal had hoped.

[Brother-Chaplain Kage]

Honestly, it's a wonder that humanity didn't implode and self-destruct as the Cabal had hoped.

 

 

 

http://i.imgur.com/u3opwsZ.jpg

[Conn Eremon]

What is the Emperor, if not a wonder? :p

[Phalanx Warder]

Though the Horus Heresy engulfed mankind, the Astartes shouldered the true blunt of the abuse. Given that Horus cut a B line to terra it stands to reason that many an imperial army unit stood intact after Terra was done to hold together the Imperium.

 

OP. My limited knowledge of the Legion Astartes Crusade list I would venture to say it not only is it in line with cannon but you could pull it off. Though finding a competitive list within the boundarys you set may prove the challenge, if that's your cup of tea then drink!

[Relict]

You can always use the Shattered Legions rules that are rumored to included in the next HH book from FW...

 

I actually kind of look forward to the day when the HH books have covered the entirety of the Heresy and move on to the Scouring. I want to see the Loyalists get down the Traitors' level when it comes to purging their enemies' worlds. 

 

The destruction of the Iron Warriors' holdouts around Olympia, the death of Colchis, the Iron Cage Incident, the reaving of Barbarus, and of course the shattering of the Night Lords...

 

Angron had the right idea of never having a fixed homeworld and beelining it for the Eye as soon as Horus died. ;)

[Sevatar]

Agreed. I really want to see the Loyalists get bloody vengeance on the Traitors. In particular, the Iron Hands. I want to see if they become as brutal as the Traitors.

[Iron Hands Fanatic]

Agreed. I really want to see the Loyalists get bloody vengeance on the Traitors. In particular, the Iron Hands. I want to see if they become as brutal as the Traitors.

 

To be fair, they were never far off that level of brutality even during the Great Crusade

[Dragonkin Arenis]

I would imagine a Scouring Era force of Loyalists (and especially Raven Guard) to be more ad hoc in organization. Given the fact that the years of the Horus Heresy having taken their toll, I envision an interesting mix of armor marks (anything between II and VI goes), mismatched weapons, and a lot of wear and tear in general.

Be an interesting project, since the Loyalist Legionaries of the Scouring Era are basically the ones that are tough/lucky enough to survive.

^- this.

The force I'm working on at the moment (if you haven't seen them already) is a group of loyalist EC's in the Scouring era, and they are equipped with a mish-mash of armour marks and weapons. In truth, anything between mk.II and mk.VII for loyalists is great, as the 'Aquila-Pattern' armour was issued in limited numbers to some of the loyalists on Terra. Legionnaires would use any weapon or armour plate that was serviceable by this point; Mars is most likely under-capacity, the Forge Worlds are in disarray and some legions have to fight their way toward their home planets and their forges to access to what they can create at home. I suspect there would be several different marks of armour within a squad, including some that are non-standard, with large quantities of mks."V" and VI. Personal modification might be a factor that comes into play with a Scouring-era force.

As for organisation, we know that when the Ultramarines came to Tsagualsa to whup the Night Lords, ADB hints that they had split into Chapters by that point, but equally that could simply be explained by "They already had those names" or something like that.

The way I see it, a Scouring-era force from, say, the Imperial Fists can still be played using the HH rules, as they were particularly stubborn about the changeover and would want to keep units such as Breachers, artillery, etc. that were a central part of their battle strategy, but that's not to say that they hadn't made a few changes. The IF's took massive casualties and Dorn probably would have wanted to use what remained of his forces as efficiently as possible, organising them in a manner similar to his Veteran Tactical Squads to give them the versatility their smaller numbers required. Hence, they can use C:SM/DA/BA/SW/etc. to represent a force of that kind.

I'm working on conjecture here, so bear with me.

[Tiger9gamer]

Since i'm still shaky on the scope of the HH, I'm guessing it would be strange to still have 30 man tactical squads running around? maybe they should just be legion veteran squads in stead

[Slips]

Since i'm still shaky on the scope of the HH, I'm guessing it would be strange to still have 30 man tactical squads running around? maybe they should just be legion veteran squads in stead

as far as I know (at work but I'm pretty sure on this) is that Tac Squads start at 10 and are 15?pts for each extra marine up to 20 whereas vets are 5-10?

[Relict]

 

Agreed. I really want to see the Loyalists get bloody vengeance on the Traitors. In particular, the Iron Hands. I want to see if they become as brutal as the Traitors.

 

To be fair, they were never far off that level of brutality even during the Great Crusade

 

 

Correct, but during the Great Crusade, they had a high degree of control (what's with the whole "iron over flesh" thing) with Ferrus ruling over it all. 

 

Now that good old Ferrus has received a Viking haircut courtesy of the Fabulous One, most of his men went insane. Barely contained rage, once unleashed, is a scary thing. 

[Felix Antipodes]

Although several BL personnel have hinted that the Scouring is next on the agenda after HH winds up I'm not sure how detailed they will make it noting that the exact number of 2nd Founding Chapters, like the fate of the missing Legions, has always remained vague.

Don't get me wrong, I'm all for a Scouring series, just not sure what we will get outside the stuff already established in the fluff.

[Spinsanity]

Although several BL personnel have hinted that the Scouring is next on the agenda after HH winds up I'm not sure how detailed they will make it noting that the exact number of 2nd Founding Chapters, like the fate of the missing Legions, has always remained vague.

BL has already fudged the list of second founding chapters, so there's no reason to expect the final tally of the Apocryphas will differ from the etablished fluff, and I would definitely not expect BL or FW to name all the Primogenitors...

 

Flesh of Cretacia is an example where A.Smillie (purposefully or not) played around with the list of second founding chapters...

 

The book apparently takes place in 238.M31 according to the quote on the back cover, yet the Star Phantoms are mentioned on page 20 : "But we would be better served resuming our crusade into the Sakkara sector. The Star Phantoms have already sent a request for aid."

 

The Phantoms have never been mentionned as a possible second founding chapter, for example, so they had to be one of the missing Primogenitors I would assume... Since we also know (from FW's Badab War series) that the 'current' Star Phantoms are a 26th founding chapter, I guess we can assume that by not answering their call for help, the FTs doomed the chapter? o.Ô

 

[Hyaenidae]

Forgeworld has done a brilliant job of expanding on the Crusade and Heresy, while maintaining the feel of the old IA's and fluff; I expect no less a level of respect if they really did cover the Scouring. 

 

As for Second Foundings, since the Legions are now massive in scope, I would understand some expansion. The known Chapters come from a list that is broken and ten-thousand bloody years old, a list maintained by the worst record keepers ever, in a continent sized library that is consistently purged of information for the slightest infraction, lest weak minds break under the weight of dangerous knowledge. 

 

Yeah, a few names are going to fall through the cracks.

[Black Cohort]

With imperial record keeping I am amazed that any of the chapters on the list are accurate.

[Conn Eremon]

Forgeworld has done a brilliant job of expanding on the Crusade and Heresy, while maintaining the feel of the old IA's and fluff; I expect no less a level of respect if they really did cover the Scouring.

 

As for Second Foundings, since the Legions are now massive in scope, I would understand some expansion. The known Chapters come from a list that is broken and ten-thousand bloody years old, a list maintained by the worst record keepers ever, in a continent sized library that is consistently purged of information for the slightest infraction, lest weak minds break under the weight of dangerous knowledge.

 

Yeah, a few names are going to fall through the cracks.

Not to mention that the lists have long been outright stated as inaccurate in the lore.

[Tiger9gamer]

So anyways, just thinking about using the scouring as an excuse to go up against more modern armies without getting guff. Still have to work out the ideas. Wish everything wasnt so point expensive.