Nova_chron Posted June 17, 2014 Share Posted June 17, 2014 So I have fallen in love with breacher marines I love the look of them. So any ideas on an army list to plan and start building around them? Basic limitations I don't want to use a praetor out the gates, probably do a siege breaker and some medusae... I know this is really vague but I have to start somewhere. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/292595-siege-style-army-thoughts/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nakuth Posted June 17, 2014 Share Posted June 17, 2014 Any particular legion you have in mind? If you're taking medsae, I recommend taking nuncio-voxes for all eligible units, as it gives you more options for drawing line of sight, and will help keep the big guns safer than they would be out in the open and mobile in order to see targets. Maybe also take a vindicator (or two), for close-range punch, and maybe a Typhon for the bigger punch. alternatively, a cople of infernus pattern preadtors (with either magna-meltas or flamestorm cannons) would also suit a siege army, as they'd either be creating breaches or entering breaches. Just a few thoughts that first came to mind. Ps. Heathens inbound in 3....2....1.... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/292595-siege-style-army-thoughts/#findComment-3721016 Share on other sites More sharing options...
depthcharge12 Posted June 17, 2014 Share Posted June 17, 2014 I was going to suggest using the shield wall rules for IF, but I think you need the stone gauntlet rite of war which needs a praetor. Benefits include buffs to phalanx warder, terminator, and breachers squads all armed with shields. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/292595-siege-style-army-thoughts/#findComment-3721017 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nova_chron Posted June 17, 2014 Author Share Posted June 17, 2014 Eventually I will do a praetor but not right at first was looking at either IVth or VIIth legion... But was wondering if I could get away with the tenth legion also? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/292595-siege-style-army-thoughts/#findComment-3721022 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nakuth Posted June 17, 2014 Share Posted June 17, 2014 Eventually I will do a praetor but not right at first was looking at either IVth or VIIth legion... But was wondering if I could get away with the tenth legion also? Sure you can. It's perfectly feasible that any legion would have had siege formations, and indeed, the Xth would probably have been very good at this style of warfare, if not as reknowned for it as the IVth & VIIth. It would also allow you to use those lovely Immortals minis for your breacher squads, if you were so inclined. the Gorgon terminator unit would also suit a footslogging or mechanised siege army. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/292595-siege-style-army-thoughts/#findComment-3721026 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iron Hands Fanatic Posted June 17, 2014 Share Posted June 17, 2014 Eventually I will do a praetor but not right at first was looking at either IVth or VIIth legion... But was wondering if I could get away with the tenth legion also? That'd definitely work - although not specifically predisposed towards siege warfare, Breachers seemed to be a mainstay of the Xth Legion, so you can't go far wrong. Plus high-intensity warfare is right up their street, and with their predilection for tanks, it would be very appropriate. Structurally, the approximately batallion-sized formation within the Iron Hands was the Order, a division of variable size usually formed with a particular warzone in mind - so, if the Great Crusade brought 1+ Clan(s) to a fortress-world in need of 'pacification', its entirely feasible an Order specifically geared towards siege warfare would be formed & deployed, centered around Breacher Centuries, so your Siege Breaker Consuls could be the Shield-Centurions of such companies. In terms of makeup, I see the Iron Tenth's armoured divisions as usually armed with direct line of sight, rather than artillery weapons (although they would still have -loads of these as well) - so swapping in a Cerberus / Sicaran Venator for some long range bunker-disintegration, or a squad of predators with Magna-meltas for beaching duties for a couple of your Medusas / Typhons might be fluffy. Oh, and Dreads! The Iron Hands love them some 'noughts, so give em' a chainfist & get em' bunker-busting. Additionally, the Iron Hands are real pally with the Mechanicum, so having some gnarly Castellax might be cool - you could possibly even slip one of those Thanator Siege-Automata in there once its released So yeah, you've got plenty of options if you wanted to go with the Iron Tenth Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/292595-siege-style-army-thoughts/#findComment-3721155 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nova_chron Posted June 17, 2014 Author Share Posted June 17, 2014 I am almost sold on the tenth right there anyone up for making a counter argument? The direct fire weapons are a good point and I will have to look in to them. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/292595-siege-style-army-thoughts/#findComment-3721337 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reyner Posted June 17, 2014 Share Posted June 17, 2014 Siege you say? Counter-argument you want? The Iron Fourth are the only acceptable choice! Here are some reasons for you: Also buddies with the Mechanicum so you can still get your robots in Everything looks cooler with chevrons They will not run away when 90% of them are killed in shooting attacks Their rules are quite decent - the rite of war gives all vehicles extra armour if you ever want to get a Praetor in Tyrant Siege Terminators - regular terminators but every man gets a cyclone missile launcher. Walking MRLS! Stubborn in fortifications (don't quote me on that I am very rusty rules wise) Going back to the RoW if you really, really wanted to you can cram in 12 Medusa Tanks... *cue Baldricks war poem* 20 breachers with an apothecary with Iron Warriors Legion rules are very difficult to remove from an objective (FNP, re-roll failed saves against template/blast and they will not run away unless something is stabbing them) Awesome colour scheme (in my opinion the Iron Warriors look tenfold better than Iron Hands) edit: Also with the RoW if you have a full 20man tactical squad with bolters, pistols and CCWs you have the option to rapid fire (not Fury of the Legion though) then charge! Hmm just thought I wonder if that works with Veteran Tacticals - charging after rapid firing plasma guns with the sniper special rule with a few power weapons? Any of those reasons any good? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/292595-siege-style-army-thoughts/#findComment-3721364 Share on other sites More sharing options...
GodEmperorOfMankind Posted June 17, 2014 Share Posted June 17, 2014 Im sold!!! Oh wait, I was already building Iron Warriors. Great counter arguement right there Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/292595-siege-style-army-thoughts/#findComment-3721409 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nova_chron Posted June 17, 2014 Author Share Posted June 17, 2014 Haha that was brilliantly done, and I do love the iron warriors going to have to think this one thru while I save up the money involved... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/292595-siege-style-army-thoughts/#findComment-3721480 Share on other sites More sharing options...
sitnam Posted June 17, 2014 Share Posted June 17, 2014 Do note that while the IVth and VIIth are the siege specialists, you don't necessarily have to limit yourself to them (or my beloved Xth). One glorious par tof the GC/HH is that marines aren't near as pigeonholed into their specialties. That said, I'll go ahead and make a case for the Imperial Fiists, just for a different perspective: -Your bolt shooting is the most accurate. -Gain stubborn in cover (not Iron Warriors) -Special unit of breachers that seem fairly versatile in loadouts. -Templar swordsmen -No special terminators but you can give yours storm shields iirc and they can deep strike too -RoW makes shield bearing units more survivable and hit harder. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/292595-siege-style-army-thoughts/#findComment-3721555 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iron Hands Fanatic Posted June 17, 2014 Share Posted June 17, 2014 Siege you say? Counter-argument you want? The Iron Fourth are the only acceptable choice! Here are some reasons for you: Also buddies with the Mechanicum so you can still get your robots in Everything looks cooler with chevrons They will not run away when 90% of them are killed in shooting attacks Their rules are quite decent - the rite of war gives all vehicles extra armour if you ever want to get a Praetor in Tyrant Siege Terminators - regular terminators but every man gets a cyclone missile launcher. Walking MRLS! Stubborn in fortifications (don't quote me on that I am very rusty rules wise) Going back to the RoW if you really, really wanted to you can cram in 12 Medusa Tanks... *cue Baldricks war poem* 20 breachers with an apothecary with Iron Warriors Legion rules are very difficult to remove from an objective (FNP, re-roll failed saves against template/blast and they will not run away unless something is stabbing them) Awesome colour scheme (in my opinion the Iron Warriors look tenfold better than Iron Hands) edit: Also with the RoW if you have a full 20man tactical squad with bolters, pistols and CCWs you have the option to rapid fire (not Fury of the Legion though) then charge! Hmm just thought I wonder if that works with Veteran Tacticals - charging after rapid firing plasma guns with the sniper special rule with a few power weapons? Any of those reasons any good? So you choose to fight with rules? Then rules I have for you - Better buddies with the Mechanicum so with the Head of the Gorgon Rite of War, in addition to the Heavy Support Castellax/Thallax maniple from a Cortex Controller, you can also take a maniple as an Elites choice - Chevrons are unnecessary decorations that make you an obvious target - Every Legiones Astartes: Iron Hands model gets -1 strength on all incoming shooting attacks - they don't die as easy as them IV Legionaries - The Head of the Gorgon gives reserve tanks outflank - including transports, so you can encircle those fortifications & shoot the flanks of their vehicles - oh, and even without the rite, you can pay 10 points so that the vehicles in question regenerates hull points - The toughest terminators out there - get yourself a cataphractii command squad, and give every model a cyber familiar- you've got a 2+ armour save & a 3+ invulnerable save - that's the same as some Primarchs, and with -1 strength to shooting,you'll be laughing off the bullets - The Rite gives troops in their deployment zone stubborn - so sit them back and get blasting away - Looking for the capability to take more tanks? with the rite, every unit eligible to take a rhino can instead take a Land Raider as dedicated transport - more killyness - You like Breachers holding objectives? Stick a squad of Medusan Immortals on one, enjoy 5+ FNP, -1 shooting attack strength, stubborn, and and give them volkite chargers, so that when they counter-charge, each model gets to make 2 snap shots instead of sweeping into their retreating enemy - Use the FW colour scheme, and you get different patches of irridescent tones, looks awesome - plus blackened Iron looks 'tenfold better' than brown iron - The rite also allows you to swap out flamers for graviton guns - have a support squad with 10 graviton guns, and that +10 points hull point regen? With the rite of war every vehicle gets it free Awesome, fluff and rules-wise, besides - why settle for anything less than the most technologically advanced Legion out there? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/292595-siege-style-army-thoughts/#findComment-3721585 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Armond Posted June 17, 2014 Share Posted June 17, 2014 I think the X Legion would be a cool choice. If you want a combo of color scheme, rules, and fluff then you got yourself an awesome choice there. Buuuuut, you could outside the normal choices and go with a Legion now known for that type of warfare in the 40k world and create a Company that specializes in that type of warfare because, hey, Legions right? Like how the VIII has an armored Company, which is at odds with the type I warfare typical of their ranks. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/292595-siege-style-army-thoughts/#findComment-3721604 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Knight of the Raven Posted June 17, 2014 Share Posted June 17, 2014 I liked 1000heathens' idea of a Terran siege company of the Raven Guard.I'd suggest World Eaters, but their concept of siege consists of throwing bodies onto the enemy walls until they make a ramp. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/292595-siege-style-army-thoughts/#findComment-3721611 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Armond Posted June 17, 2014 Share Posted June 17, 2014 I liked 1000heathens' idea of a Terran siege company of the Raven Guard. I'd suggest World Eaters, but their concept of siege consists of throwing bodies onto the enemy walls until they make a ramp. You could make it so that it was when they were called War Hounds ;) who is to say they didn't have a renowned siege company? I mean they could even be early crusade, when not most everyone opted for the Butcher's Nails. Could be cool, and a bit unique! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/292595-siege-style-army-thoughts/#findComment-3721622 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hyaenidae Posted June 17, 2014 Share Posted June 17, 2014 Ps. Heathens inbound in 3....2....1.... http://stream1.gifsoup.com/view2/1474222/atomic-bomb-o.gif Boom. As mentioned, every Legion has the potential, though a few obvious ones specialize in Siege Warfare. Really, though, a cool story and a creative excuse can give you a billion potential ideas. A Raven Guard Battalion that never adopted their Father's prefered MO after reunion, too proud to leave behind their shields and big guns, bedecked in honours and glory of a thousand compliances. A Thousand Sons coven that blends the moving wall of psychically mute brothers, with the 'artillery' of powerful sorcerers. An Ultramarine Chapter who spent much time fighting alongside the IV and/or VII Legions, and have adopted their movements and tactics, blended together with the teachings of Guilliman, making them adaptive and dangerous. Heck, you could even make them the founding source of a Successor Chapter such as the Doom Eagles, and add a silver/Iron pauldron in honour of their service alongside the Iron Warriors during the Great Crusade. Tons of ideas, man. The only limit is the ones you place on your own imagination. :) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/292595-siege-style-army-thoughts/#findComment-3721653 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xin Ceithan Posted June 17, 2014 Share Posted June 17, 2014 Very nice thread. I always ogling Breachers when I'm looking up FW Alpha Legion - can do everything. Brilliant colors. Death Guard - literally RAD Just my 2 pence Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/292595-siege-style-army-thoughts/#findComment-3721662 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Juan Juarez Posted June 17, 2014 Share Posted June 17, 2014 Does anyone else hate the Heathens is always so creative and the ideas are always so good? I say we collectively murder him for his brain and eat it... Aside from cannibalistic murder, an Imperial Fist Linebreaker Chapter featuring a - to borrow a colloquialism from my colonial cousins - butt-load of Breacher Squads is what I one day envisage for my own - except it will never happen! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/292595-siege-style-army-thoughts/#findComment-3721676 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nova_chron Posted June 17, 2014 Author Share Posted June 17, 2014 So I am starting to put together a chart this evening of what I want in my legion. Things like paint scheme, ( the iron warriors are out I already paint to much silver ) the look of the legion and what tactics I want to use. I was also able to borrow a friends copy of Betrayal so I can start bashing some ideas together. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/292595-siege-style-army-thoughts/#findComment-3721909 Share on other sites More sharing options...
disease Posted June 18, 2014 Share Posted June 18, 2014 Its the heresy: every legion has siege specialists in large supply... I'd say just go for the legion you like the story of most and make a siege company. Sure we can talk rules all day long, but if you don't want the best part of 100 yellow models, then don't! Which legion is your favourite? Guess what - they have a specialised siege formation! Hell, be different - why not make a white scars formation? it would look so cool to have the red triangles on the siege shields and say 3 vindicators to clear the way" Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/292595-siege-style-army-thoughts/#findComment-3722066 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hyaenidae Posted June 18, 2014 Share Posted June 18, 2014 ...Plus, they've shown in Scars that the Terrans and Chogorisians had vastly different approaches to warfare, plus the Khan let his sons fight as they preferred. Make war as you choose, so long as you fight and kill. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/292595-siege-style-army-thoughts/#findComment-3722104 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother-Chaplain Kage Posted June 18, 2014 Share Posted June 18, 2014 Ps. Heathens inbound in 3....2....1.... http://stream1.gifsoup.com/view2/1474222/atomic-bomb-o.gif Boom. As mentioned, every Legion has the potential, though a few obvious ones specialize in Siege Warfare. Really, though, a cool story and a creative excuse can give you a billion potential ideas. A Raven Guard Battalion... A Thousand Sons coven... An Ultramarine Chapter ... Tons of ideas, man. The only limit is the ones you place on your own imagination. Oooh! How about a company of VIII Legion that hate the Emperor, but hate the traitor Legions(their own included) and Chaos more, and spend the rest of their lives hunting down and killing those they used to call brothers? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/292595-siege-style-army-thoughts/#findComment-3722140 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hyaenidae Posted June 18, 2014 Share Posted June 18, 2014 ...Show-off. :P Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/292595-siege-style-army-thoughts/#findComment-3722143 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slips Posted June 18, 2014 Share Posted June 18, 2014 I'll second the idea of a Scars Siege Formation. in 40k they're (sadly) almost a one-trick-pony with all the emphasis on WE GO FAST! BIKES! SPEED-RHINOS! ZOOM! CHOP! BOOM! Seeing a different Facet of their Legion (one that might've later turned into a separate chapter - so hey customization idea to use along with the general scars theme) one that you wouldn't typically associate to them would be a breath of fresh air and would probably catch EVERYBODY you're playing against off guard if you say you're playing scars but bring a siege list! Also to go along with Heathens : So long as the enemies of the Imperium - whether they be Heretic, Xenos or Mutant, lie dead at your feet then you Honor the Emperor with you're devotion to his ideals! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/292595-siege-style-army-thoughts/#findComment-3722145 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hyaenidae Posted June 18, 2014 Share Posted June 18, 2014 The Emperor is a monster, only surpassed by his sons. Death to them all. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/292595-siege-style-army-thoughts/#findComment-3722149 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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