Captain Coolpants Posted June 17, 2014 Share Posted June 17, 2014 As I'm sure you're all aware, there is a massive ork update coming soon in the form of an updated Codex with many new models. Some of these new models are pretty scary, such as these new big walkers with av13 with loads of Hull points, 4+ strength 10 ap1 concussive attacks, it will not die, loads of guns and so forth. I've not had much experience playing against orks but the 1 game I had I got dominated. Vehicles have death rollers that pretty much insta blow my rhinos, hold wayyyyy too many troops (I didn't quite realise how scary 20 orks coming out of a little tank would be), and all vehicles are assault vehicles. They spam bodies, spam shots and spam attacks. I was completely surprised! The only real anti-horde choice we have are purifiers. But I don't really want to rely solely on them. Dreadknights with heavy incinerators can help for crowd control. But in combat they'll take so many spammed attacks that they will fail their saves, especially after shooting. I'm completely inexperienced with orks. So any of you guys have any tips for playing against them? Will incinerators be a must have choice? Or will we need the psycannons for the vehicles? Thanks guys Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/292597-dealing-with-orks/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Commander Scrymgeour Posted June 17, 2014 Share Posted June 17, 2014 Orks are also surprisingly squishy in close combat. but template weapons are where its at. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/292597-dealing-with-orks/#findComment-3721135 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deamon Wolf Posted June 17, 2014 Share Posted June 17, 2014 In 6th I never lost with my purifier list but that's the cleansing flame In 5th With the old dex it was always wise to have a mix of cannon and template But it will depend on how many battle wagons u will face Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/292597-dealing-with-orks/#findComment-3721148 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reclusiarch Darius Posted June 17, 2014 Share Posted June 17, 2014 Ram Dreadknights into his heavy AV13/14 vehicles. Use PsyDreads to annhilate his Trukkz and other light units (Deffkoptaz etc). Purifiers annhilate Orks en-masse, in shooting and melee. Terminators are hard to deal with for Orks, they have to commit their Meganobz (who will die in the attempt) or use the SAG. Other than that their ranged AP2 options are terrible. Interceptors with incinerators are the bane of Lootaz and any other artillery he takes. Don't use Ravens, they'll get gunned down by Lootaz. Don't use vehicles, they'll get gunned down by Lootaz. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/292597-dealing-with-orks/#findComment-3721149 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Coolpants Posted June 17, 2014 Author Share Posted June 17, 2014 Lmao So you say to take dreadnoughts, but then say don't take vehicles haha. My opponent will be using like 3 wagons (he's starting orks) And has already ordered a big mork Walker thing. Anyone know if these flash gitz will be hard to deal with? They have 2 wounds Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/292597-dealing-with-orks/#findComment-3721192 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reclusiarch Darius Posted June 17, 2014 Share Posted June 17, 2014 Lmao So you say to take dreadnoughts, but then say don't take vehicles haha. Well out of all our vehicle pool, PsyDreads are the least bad. I'm still on the fence about mine, might replace them with another Dreadknight. But Rhinos are a bad plan. My opponent will be using like 3 wagons (he's starting orks) And has already ordered a big mork Walker thing. Anyone know if these flash gitz will be hard to deal with? They have 2 wounds Might not need PsyDreads then, your standard psycannon will rek wagons, and Dreadknights are more useful against the heavier AV13 walker thingies. Flash Gitz are utter garbage, you outrange them and their random AP means they'll die in most firefights. They're also complete worthless garbage in melee, so your Interceptors are fine to jump them. We'll see how the rest of the codex pans out. Orks have never given Knights serious problems, rather like Nids we kinda hard-counter them too well. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/292597-dealing-with-orks/#findComment-3721212 Share on other sites More sharing options...
lt051 Posted June 17, 2014 Share Posted June 17, 2014 Nvm beat to the point Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/292597-dealing-with-orks/#findComment-3721213 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ozshock Posted June 17, 2014 Share Posted June 17, 2014 the flash gitz are completely random...rolling a D6 for both dmg and AP value...i think they are strength 4 base, but a good roll will see them AP1/2 at ST 7-10 even with 2 wounds they will be unreliable for what orcs need to do...they dont shoot with much precision being BS3/2 so everything they fire they need to know will do what it needs to do Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/292597-dealing-with-orks/#findComment-3721217 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reclusiarch Darius Posted June 17, 2014 Share Posted June 17, 2014 They'll get ignored, once again. It's sad really, they're an iconic Ork unit, yet GW can never bear to give Orks a unit that has AP2 and shoots well. At least the old version, you could pay a heavy price to give them more shots, S5 and -2 on the roll for AP. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/292597-dealing-with-orks/#findComment-3721228 Share on other sites More sharing options...
lt051 Posted June 17, 2014 Share Posted June 17, 2014 New models look pretty good, maybe new dex will give them a better/more unique role than just inferior lootas, not that that would be particularly good for us but eh, orks really shouldn't be the army you're worried about, atleast not for now Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/292597-dealing-with-orks/#findComment-3721233 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reclusiarch Darius Posted June 17, 2014 Share Posted June 17, 2014 New models look pretty good, maybe new dex will give them a better/more unique role than just inferior lootas, not that that would be particularly good for us but eh, orks really shouldn't be the army you're worried about, atleast not for now Rules already got spoiled in the White Dwarf. S4 Assault 1 18" I think, and D6 AP. So yeah, once again, Lootaz are laughing all the way to the bank. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/292597-dealing-with-orks/#findComment-3721248 Share on other sites More sharing options...
lt051 Posted June 17, 2014 Share Posted June 17, 2014 Well that's essentially useless, maybe a crazy point drop to make them considerable? Unless they turn them into special weapon spam squads Back on topic I guess: if you deal with lootas early, gk should be able to shoot orks off the board, unless they go super green tide, then just pray you brought purifiers or a couple incinerators Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/292597-dealing-with-orks/#findComment-3721280 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reclusiarch Darius Posted June 17, 2014 Share Posted June 17, 2014 Well that's essentially useless, maybe a crazy point drop to make them considerable? Unless they turn them into special weapon spam squads Nah, I think they're still around the same price. Anyway, BS2, so good luck getting any hits on target lol. Back on topic I guess: if you deal with lootas early, gk should be able to shoot orks off the board, unless they go super green tide, then just pray you brought purifiers or a couple incinerators Yeah, just send a DK with a heavy incinerator up a flank, BBQ most of the Lootaz unit, watch them run off table and laugh. After that its basically target priority 101 until they run out of Boyz, then consolidate objectives. 'Cleansing Flame' can't be used in melee, so its not going to matter much :( but Purifiers still hack Boyz apart with halberds just fine, not to mention mass psycannon or incinerator. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/292597-dealing-with-orks/#findComment-3721282 Share on other sites More sharing options...
lt051 Posted June 17, 2014 Share Posted June 17, 2014 Hmmm.... I'd almost consider a 100 pt incinerator purgation squad instead of purifiers, simply to save points for more TDA against orcs/nids/maybe guard. Weird choice between hitting a few units pretty hard or obliterating one unit. Assuming you have something like a NDK to distract fire Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/292597-dealing-with-orks/#findComment-3721284 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reclusiarch Darius Posted June 17, 2014 Share Posted June 17, 2014 Hmmm.... I'd almost consider a 100 pt incinerator purgation squad instead of purifiers, simply to save points for more TDA against orcs/nids/maybe guard. Weird choice between hitting a few units pretty hard or obliterating one unit. Assuming you have something like a NDK to distract fire The problem is, Lootaz can drown that 5-man unit in firepower too easily. You want a full squad to absorb casualties, hence why Purifiers are superior. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/292597-dealing-with-orks/#findComment-3721343 Share on other sites More sharing options...
lt051 Posted June 17, 2014 Share Posted June 17, 2014 Oh I meant to deal with blobs of orks after the lootas, probably should have clarified. I'd just do standard shunt (NDK or int) for the lootas. I really hope purgations come into their own in our next codex, because the way our current one has evolved has left them useless except maaaaybe as suicide units, if you're feeling lucky. It's a shame Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/292597-dealing-with-orks/#findComment-3721350 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reclusiarch Darius Posted June 17, 2014 Share Posted June 17, 2014 Oh I meant to deal with blobs of orks after the lootas, probably should have clarified. I'd just do standard shunt (NDK or int) for the lootas. I really hope purgations come into their own in our next codex, because the way our current one has evolved has left them useless except maaaaybe as suicide units, if you're feeling lucky. It's a shame It's due to two things. One, GW always panic when they make Heavy Support Marine squads, and make the heavy weapons absurdly overpriced. Second, 'Astral Aim' was poorly implemented and now its gone entirely. Purifiers even beat them on incinerator spam, as they get them free as well. On the plus side, we still have DK's in Heavy Support, which do essentially the same job plus fight in melee and are fast. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/292597-dealing-with-orks/#findComment-3721369 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Coolpants Posted June 17, 2014 Author Share Posted June 17, 2014 All the comments are awesome thanks guys! So it seems that lootas are the biggest priority? Why is this? Also What would you guys recommend for the 2 wound ork Terminator things? (sorry don't know the name) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/292597-dealing-with-orks/#findComment-3721690 Share on other sites More sharing options...
lt051 Posted June 17, 2014 Share Posted June 17, 2014 Lootas aren't op or anything, they are just by far orks best range support, and with decent rolls can really put the hurt on. For meganobs either go for hammer termis of just overload them with storm bolter shots. Also psycannons. Really unless they charge you they shouldn't be an issue Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/292597-dealing-with-orks/#findComment-3721695 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Coolpants Posted June 17, 2014 Author Share Posted June 17, 2014 I'll have to watch out for them then :-P I've never tried a hammer squad. Simply because we can't get shields. Is it worth taking them normally? Not just for meganobs? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/292597-dealing-with-orks/#findComment-3721704 Share on other sites More sharing options...
lt051 Posted June 17, 2014 Share Posted June 17, 2014 Eh, opinions vary. Ap2 is worth a lot in certain matchups. I like half hammer half halberd. Orks are probably the matchup you need it least in though, meganobs are their only 2+ and they aren't super common Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/292597-dealing-with-orks/#findComment-3721713 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Valerian Posted June 17, 2014 Share Posted June 17, 2014 Although we do know some unit specifics (Gorkanaut/Morkanaut and Flash Gitz) from recent White Dwarf leaks, I'd recommend that we table this discussion for a week or two. It's rather futile to go through a discussion of specific counters to Orks when their brand-spanking new codex for 7e isn't even out yet, but is so close that we can almost taste the fungus. Let's come back to this subject in two weeks, or so, when we can talk to specifics, rather than conjecture based on what 5e Orks looked like. V Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/292597-dealing-with-orks/#findComment-3721863 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reclusiarch Darius Posted June 18, 2014 Share Posted June 18, 2014 GW is pushing new monster/vehicle kits. I don't see any indication of a new super unit to stomp us. Orks already have some racial traits which GW is unlikely to mess with; - They're numerous but lightly armoured - Their 2+ saves are limited to one infantry unit and Warbosses/Big Meks - Their vehicles are either dirt-cheap but fragile as glass, or heavy armoured but limited to dedicated/Heavy Support Every indication thus far is Orks are not gonna be anymore powerful than before. We already curbstomp their competitive lists without effort, I don't see any reason to be concerned about the new dex. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/292597-dealing-with-orks/#findComment-3722304 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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