Primarch "Origins" novels would be great

[malorn24]

I would love to see at least a one book per each of the Primarchs like Xmen Origins movies. They sorta did it for The Lion already but that was about it. Give us some more meat to flesh out the HH.

[Teetengee]

Isn't there only one Xmen origins movie?

[Daemon2027]

I think they meant to make more but didnt. Anyway first class is an origins movie and the best one.

 

I would lime to see more of the primarchs pre emperor, but thats because I would like to read of the worlds and people pre emperor. Doubt it will happen though.

[Bunter]

The last thing the HH series of books needs is fleshing out IMO. They are really really draggin along with the main plot IMO... all a bit reminiscent of the Lost TV series.

[Lord Commander Scrymgeour]

I'd like some more unification stuff personally, or some stuff about the other warlords before the big E smote them

[Hyaenidae]

Less Primarchs, more Legionaries. Stories like Tallarn: Executioner prove the the HH is so much more than just the Primarchs.

[Relict]

Don't we already have an anthology of short stories relating to the various Primarchs?

 

I like the current model where each Legion gets their own day in the limelight. Like how the first three books were centered on the Sons of Horus, Betrayer covered the World Eaters, and Know No Fear dedicated to the Ultramarines. 

[malorn24]

Less Primarchs, more Legionaries. Stories like Tallarn: Executioner prove the the HH is so much more than just the Primarchs.

 

Yes but I still want the beginning. tell the story of the rise to power or slave pit fighter (Angron) and when the big E shows up. The story could be dual with the CM's before the said Primarch is introduced to his legion. I think the idea would sell.

[Conn Eremon]

I think they meant to make more but didnt. Anyway first class is an origins movie and the best one.

 

You need to see the newest one. First X-Men movie that looked like it was made by people who understood the X-Men. So much better.

 

On topic, while I agree with 1000heathens on Tallarn's magnificent portrayal proving you don't need demigods around to make a good story, I find I am solidly in the "Why don't we have both?" camp.

[Hyaenidae]

I love ya, man, but one read of Deliverance Lost, Vulkan Lives, and Angel Exterminatus gives me all the reason I need to see less of the primarchs.

[Conn Eremon]

I love ya, man, but one read of Deliverance Lost, Vulkan Lives, and Angel Exterminatus gives me all the reason I need to see less of the primarchs.

Positive side, man! As bad as I thought two of those were (still can't get myself to read Vulkan Lives), I'll gladly suffer them if it means I get The First Heretic, Legion and Know No Fear. All three of those showed Primarch perspectives, and were intensely entertaining books. But, as always, mileage may vary.

 

I'll rail and gnash my teeth at the bad, but the good makes it worth it. Much like the hobby as a whole. I'll take GW, if it means I can enjoy FW.

[Hyaenidae]

Much truth there, brother.

 

Still, I'll pay vast amounts of money for the next Tallarn.

[captain Angel]

Don't forget fear to tread! I still imagine the angel smashing his way into the ?infernal? Citadel and destroying the greater deamons. It gave a great example of a Primarch.

[b1soul]

The Horus Heresy really is a mess 

 

I would've preferred

 

1. Great Crusade/Primarchs' Origins series

2. an organised Heresy series (without stuff like Battle of the Abyss, Damnation of Pythos, Nemesis, Outcast Dead etc.)

3. Scouring series

4. Nova Interregnum

5. Age of Apostasy series 

6. Unification Wars 

7. "Tales of the Heresy" series (writers get to play around with the Horus Heresy as a setting, stuff like Damnation of Pythos, Nemesis would go here)  

 

The later series could overlap and not necessarily be released one after the other. Crusade to Heresy to Scouring should be released in this order however 

[malorn24]

The idea of an "Origins" book per legion/primarch would only enhance the flavor of the books now. I agree with 1000's that at least two of the books made me cringe. I liked the other one LOL. But part of what attracted me to the 40k univers is all of the BACK STORIES there is so much space to fill in and have fun with.

[no I'm alpharius]

Aren't some of them covered in sections within the books. Pretty sure Vulkan's is and I'm fairly sure I've read intro stories for Kurze and Perturabo. 

... and some would be utterly dull. 

 

"Landed on a pretty comfy world and learned LOGISTICS"

[Hyaenidae]

I'm down with back stories, don't get me wrong. But the series is dangerously close to becoming a bad comic book. Primarch versus Primarch fights are becoming repetitive and boring, not to mention ridiculous. I literally cringed at Horus taking out that Fire Raptor in Vengeful Spirit, and landing like a crappy kung-fu movie. At the risk of sounding like a broken record, the series is delving too deeply into the various Primarch's mindsets as well, killing much of their majesty and turning them into mortals with super powers. 

 

*sigh* Promise, I'll shut up about it now.

[Armond]

Agreed, I prefer stories on the actual troops in the Legions.

 

BTW heathens, PM'd you bro.

[captain Angel]

No 1000, I think that you have some very good points,

 

I completely disagree with them however.

 

In my mind the primarchs are more human and more interesting by the way they are portrayed

 

Although the Emperor created them to be superhuman, they are flawed because they were raised by humans, lion and huanter notwithstanding. It is the nurture of the primarchs that they became human. Each of their personalities was moulded by their experience with their "parents"or lack there of. Just to say that the primarchs should be less than human does not make sense to me.

 

To quote fear to tread

“So they should,’ said Horus. ‘So we should. To be human is to be flawed – no matter what we are or where we came from, we are still human. We share the same ancestry as the people we defend.’

‘Indeed. If we lost that connection… If we truly were beyond humanity, then the Emperor’s sons and the Legiones Astartes would have more kinship to xenos like them–’ Sanguinius gestured towards the corpse of a nephilim blue-skin ‘–than to the children of Terra.”

[Hyaenidae]

It is what it is, brother. I respect your opinion, and I know I'm in the minority in mine.

 

As long as stories like The Crimson Fist and Tallarn keep coming out, I'll be alright.  :)

 

Plus, I always got the FW HH books, which are a dream come true.

[malorn24]

I am in agreement with you 1000. In VS when Horus gets face palmed by a Knights Lance and then goes on to Tonya Harding the Knight I was cringing myself. But that is not what I was thinking.

 

I loved in Fallen Angels the beggining 3/4's of the book that really showed why the Lion is how he is (sorta). I want to know what the Haunter went through from cryo opening playing jumpy house on Dorn. I want to know about Inwit. The sorta went into it in Deleverance but they could have gone deeper. This all started when i read that short story about the World Eaters command teams getting killed trying to welcome thier primarch into thier happy community.

[Hyaenidae]

Now, see, some of the third-person views of the Primarchs have been spot on. I love how Perturabo was thought of by his sons in Crimson Fist, and the Imperial Fists' reaction to him. The Primarchs, seen from these angles (including the Lion in Fallen Angels) add to their power and mystery and majesty. I enjoy that.

 

I just don't care for being in a Primarch's head, seeing his thoughts.It simplifies them, makes them too mortal, in my opinion.

 

*shrug* Like I said, it is what it is. 

[Conn Eremon]

Way I see it, there are two different kinds of Primarchs. The 30k kind and the 40k kind.
 
In 30k, they are biologically engineered, warp-infused humans. They were wrought by science, given powers beyond any other, and possess minds far in advance to any others of the wider species. They are human, but in many ways they are less than human. Like the Space Marines, their abilities have stunted their growth and maturity. Because of this, the human qualities they embody tend to the extremes, for good or for ill.
 
In 40k, they are the demigod sons of the Emperor. They are born of myth, possessing powers beyond mortal ken, and possessed minds that could never be penetrated or understood. They are human, but they are far more than that. Like the Space Marines, they were the very manifestations of the Emperor's will and might. They were legends, embodying the the very archetypes of humanity, as the Emperor encompassed them all.
 
Both are true and correct. One represents the Primarchs as they actually existed, and the other as remembered by the intensely religious, or in the case of their successor sons, intensely religious in all but name. 
 
Personally, I was all for the Primarchs as unknowable demigods in the beginning. As the series has worn on, and it became clear to me that I wasn't going to get that, not really anyways, I became more appreciative of what I had been getting instead.
 
That said, it's no excuse for bad writing. While scenes like McNeil wrote with Mortarion and Horus in Vengeful Spirit were god awful, I don't think that's because of the 30k Primarch image. In my opinion, had they kept to that 40k Primarch image, we would still have the same writers producing the same quality of work, respective to their talents (and our opinions of said talents). While it's possible that McNeill might have shined like a beacon and rose to the level of AD-B and Abnett if he had been writing along the lines of the 40k Primarch image instead, chances are we might have had something that similarly caused many of us to cringe anyways. The Primarchs might have been more along the lines that those like 1000heathens would prefer, but that doesn't necessarily mean the quality of writing would improve as well.
 
That said, I would have loved to see AD-B or Abnett tackle the Primarchs in the mythical style. While I loved, for instance, The First Heretic, I'm sure I would have also loved it if the author had taken the focus completely off of Lorgar, keeping him as an incredibly distant, demigod character. 

 

... and some would be utterly dull.

"Landed on a pretty comfy world and learned LOGISTICS"

Have some imagination man! A man receives a vision in his dreams, urging him to leave his place of safety and head alone into the wilderness. There, where his waking and sleeping visions match, he finds a small child, perfect and abandoned. He takes this small child, and watches him grow with astounding speed into an unbelievably successful man. On a world famed for its archaic, militant academies, this small child rapidly learned everything the greatest masters could have to teach him, overwhelming them in short order with his own intelligence and strength. When tasked with conquering land that had long thwarted his father's rule, the young man did so with minimum bloodshed. When he discovered his father had been murdered by his political equal, taking the global empire for his own, the young man dedicated himself to those lands he had conquered in his father's name. Within the span of a few short years, the tribal, barbaric tribes had become an advanced kingdom under his guiding hand, richer in every aspect to the floundering empire, proving the murderer's inadequacy as a ruler. When the man walked back into the capital where his father once ruled, he confronted his murderer as a superior being in every way. He took back his father's empire, and from this base he spread it out among the very stars. When his true father arrived, he found a man that was more truly his son in spirit, character and force of will than nearly any of his brothers. He found a man at the helm of the greatest empire in the galaxy, barring his own. He found everything he had wanted of his general sons. Though the Emperor's favor veered to another, time will show that this man, Roboute Guilliman, alone of all his brothers, most deserved that favor.

 

And you call his backstory dull?

 

What, because Alpharius' "Uhhh I'unno" backstory is so much better? :p

[Iron Hands Fanatic]

Much truth there, brother. Still, I'll pay vast amounts of money for the next Tallarn.

 

I want an Iron Hands v Iron Warriors tank battle so bad it hurts

[Adra'Melek]

Personally I'm another that prefers the view from outside the Primarchs rather than inside. Like the Bernard Cornwall books which often follow the 2nd guy, or just a 'grunt' in the middle of great events, alongside great people.