Primarch "Origins" novels would be great

[SpecialIssue]

Personally, I would have liked to have seen the Primarchs exactly, or very close to how they are seen and remembered in the 41st millennium.

 

As literal nigh-unstoppable demigods striding the mortal plane, but given their deity-like power through dark science and unknowable secrets.

 

They should have always stood above the story and its telling. They should always have inspired an aura of supremacy and unknowable awe not just to the characters in the story, but to the readers themselves. The Primarchs should always have been kept at arm's length, IMO. The Heresy would be much more interesting the less we knew about everyone's true thoughts and intentions.

 

Instead, (and I feel this extends to the Astartes as well) we got a bunch of jumped-up super soldiers, with capabilities and failings that seem rather fragile for conquering an entire galaxy. It just doesn't live up to my imagination, sadly :(

[b1soul]

I don't think every primarch deserves a novel on his origins. I mean, it could be done but I think short stories would suffice for some. Honestly, I think only Horus' origin tale would warrant a full novel...

 

I think the best way to cover primarch origins would've been a Great Crusade series. We get Terran legions, primarch upbringings, transition of Terran legions to primarch-homeworld-based legions, conquest of myriad non-Imperial human empires. So much to cover...

 

 I want to know what the Haunter went through from cryo opening playing jumpy house on Dorn.

 

Hohoho 

[Hyaenidae]

Honestly, the only thing I'm bummed about is that they didn't cover the Suppression of Olympia. I wanted to see what exactly brought the Iron Warriors from the cold, hard logic of loyalty and fidelity, into the arms of treason.

 

Missed bestseller, there. C'est la vie.

[Anvilarium]

Much truth there, brother. Still, I'll pay vast amounts of money for the next Tallarn.

I want an Iron Hands v Iron Warriors tank battle so bad it hurts

I have a sneaking suspicion that the Iron Hands are going to get ret-conned entirely out of Tallarn...

[Reyner]

Didn't a load of Loyalists turn up at the end of Tallarn: Executioner? You will still hopefully see a tank war! 

[Hyaenidae]

Didn't a load of Loyalists turn up at the end of Tallarn: Executioner? You will still hopefully see a tank war! 

 

 

Indeed, including a kill team of White Scars, battered and angry; and a warship named Lament of Caliban. Executioner is just the first phase of the war, the ragged edge hanging on by their fingernails, and losing badly. I suspect the second phase will be the X Legion landing, angry as hell and itching for something to kill. :)

 

[Wade Garrett]

Meaning no offense to the Iron Tenth and their fans, but I always liked the thought of Tallearn as the battle where the posthuman might of the Legions Astartes was faced down by the Imperial Army.

 

Ordinary men and women, against nightmares born from the maddest sciences and blackest sorcery, armed with weapons to take a galaxy...and humans, plain old non geneseed, me and thee mortals, HELD. THE. LINE.

[Nehekhare]

Tallarn: Executioner was a huge let-down for me. not a single space marine was mentioned. just humans, dying.

[Hyaenidae]

Shocking. I thought it was one of the best shorts in the series, right up there with Crimson Fist, Iron Within, and Savage Weapons.

 

EDIT: And Riven, and Echos of Old Night. Almost forgot.  :sweat:

[Nehekhare]

Guess I'm just like our father in this regard and rather burn the pict than see other's flags atop our conquests.

[Hyaenidae]

Fair enough, man. You and I are on opposite ends of the ol' "Iron Warrior spectrum", but I respect your psychosis none the less.  :P

[Augustus]

Cormac. Cursed be your name. You made me want to start an Ultramarine Army :/

[Conn Eremon]

http://37.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m6ew20xwGW1rziwwco1_400.gif

[Captain Juan Juarez]

It's quite scary to see the range of opinons on the 'net regarding the Heresy series; I read negative comments about books that I enjoyed and think "is there something wrong with me?" and positive comments about books I didn't enjoy and think "Wait, did I miss something?".

 

I understand "mileage may vary" but you'd think given the obsession some of us have - Heathens in particular you are one of the most vocal in your love - there would be some kind of common ground for "good book".

[Hyaenidae]

To be fair, there's something from almost every book I have liked, at least it part, even from books that folks have called terrible. F'rex, I loved the Thunder Warriors in Outcast Dead. The Lightning Bearer has got to be one of the cooler characters I've read about. I despised Angel Exterminatus, but I am an unashamed fan of Cadaras Grendel, who I think is the most badass Legionnaire in existence. 

 

I think a lot comes down to personal images we develop in our heads. I have a very, very specific image of the Iron Warriors in my head, so when something viciously clashes with that mental image that I had, there is resistance, or dislike. Angel Exterminatus clashed very poorly in my head, thus distaste. The image created of the Iron Warriors in The Crimson Fist, though, damn near matched my mental picture to a tee, so I loved it. In comparison, I had a very loose, or even non-existant, image of the Wolves and the Ultramarines, so I thoroughly enjoyed Prospero Burns and Know Know Fear, because it helped build an image I didn't hold previously. I am also now a dedicated fan of Tauro Nicodemus thanks to his portrayal in Iron Within, because any Ultramarine who paces back and forth, spitting blood, after cutting down an honour guard with shield and blade, itching to bring down that last Son of Horus, gets a big thumbs up from me, lol.

 

We all envisage this universe in different ways, and even when we know someone whose image comes close to ours, like myself and M2C or Darth Potato, we still are bound to clash with our ideas from time to time.

 

The joys of a community who love an imaginary universe, while sharing our half-baked thoughts, I guess.  *shrug*

[Anvilarium]

Meaning no offense to the Iron Tenth and their fans, but I always liked the thought of Tallearn as the battle where the posthuman might of the Legions Astartes was faced down by the Imperial Army.

 

Tallarn has always been Iron Warriors vs Imperial Fists/Iron Hands/Guard, with Titan Legios on either side.

 

I just have a feeling, (especially after who turned up at the end of Tallan: Executioner), that the Iron Hands are no longer going to play a part in Tallarn which is a shame as I always thought that Tallarn would be the first battle (post-Issvan V) where the Iron Hands re-united into a semi-coherent force and took their grief out on the Traitors.

[Hyaenidae]

Honestly, I have been guessing for a while that the Iron Hands various warbands would never reunite, and instead would either grind themselves to dust, be hunted for committing tech-heresy, or split into the Chapters of the second founding. The Iron Hands never really got along with their successors, and the line of stories involving the X Legion since their father's death has simply confirmed that in my mind.

 

Still, I have faith that FW and BL will put the Tenth on the ground. 

[Iron Hands Fanatic]

 

Meaning no offense to the Iron Tenth and their fans, but I always liked the thought of Tallearn as the battle where the posthuman might of the Legions Astartes was faced down by the Imperial Army.

 

Tallarn has always been Iron Warriors vs Imperial Fists/Iron Hands/Guard, with Titan Legios on either side.

 

I just have a feeling, (especially after who turned up at the end of Tallan: Executioner), that the Iron Hands are no longer going to play a part in Tallarn which is a shame as I always thought that Tallarn would be the first battle (post-Issvan V) where the Iron Hands re-united into a semi-coherent force and took their grief out on the Traitors.

 

 

 

Honestly, I have been guessing for a while that the Iron Hands various warbands would never reunite, and instead would either grind themselves to dust, be hunted for committing tech-heresy, or split into the Chapters of the second founding. The Iron Hands never really got along with their successors, and the line of stories involving the X Legion since their father's death has simply confirmed that in my mind.

 

Still, I have faith that FW and BL will put the Tenth on the ground. 

 

See, I've never seen the unification of the Xth Legion as necessary to them playing a significant role in the Heresy - and that's entirely due to their structure. Weirdly enough, the Iron Hands are actually really well placed to deal with the loss of their Commander & a number of their elite - purely because of how the Clans work.

 

A Clan is likely anywhere from 500 to 3,000 Legionaries, with huge armour divisions, its own 'Chainveil' Auxiliaries, and servitor contingents. They have their own ships, command chains, and social customs, and are designed to function completely independently. Its this self-reliance that's to their advantage - when the Legion shattered, it didn't break into tiny shards of survivors, it will have fragmented into its constituent Clans, each having an unbreakable chain of command and strong internal cultural ties - if they'd merely been tactical divisions, they would have fallen apart just as the Legion at large did. Instead, you've got these large military bodies, each uniquely equipped to survive alone - and large enough to cause significant damage.

 

Sure, they aren't unified in their intent or ideology - the inherent competition fostered between the Clans during the Great Crusade saw to that - but they will have regrouped, reeling from the Massacre. When they sounded the call to war, or set out into the coldest reaches of the Galaxy for secrets long forbidden, those that came to their side may not have been the Imperial Army - too much bad blood - but their ties with the Mechanicum would have proved their use. Whilst other Legions would have been drawing regiments of human troops in their fold, the Clans would have been marshaling cohorts of the Legio Cybernetica, formations of the Taghmata Omnissiah, and even maniples of the Titan Legions.

 

When you consider that, how many Clans do there need to have been at Tallarn to have a significant impact? A dozen? Twenty? The Iron Lords are too proud to elevate one of their number above the rest, so alliances will fragment throughout the Heresy - but the Clans themselves are still powerful forces, and they maintain the strength they possessed during the Great Crusade with their independence - each Clan is a nation, more than capable of sundering a Traitor-held manufactorum world to shatter their supply lines, or descending upon Traitor forces as they re-arm. Besides, when conflict is spreading around the galaxy, a single Clan can mean the difference between defeat and victory for Loyalist forces - and they will never baulk at the prospect of eradication. Say 10,000 Word Bearers are besieging an Imperial Fortress World - when a thousand sable-hulled battle tanks arrive at their rear with twice that number of bitter warriors in blackened iron power armour, with half a dozen titans and fifteen hundred battle-automata, the Traitors will pause for thought, or they'll burn.

 

Plus, I'm not hugely worried about the direction FW takes the Iron Tenth in with Conquest - from their track record, I'm bound to love it.

[malorn24]

what's all this IV talk? You had your book sorry it sucked LOL. na I will play nice.

I did love the scene when the stone father whatever his name was get drunk off his booty and Grendal has to donkey punch him and drag him back to the ship.

[Hyaenidae]

Very well said, IHF. I'm in full agreement with you, and I'm glad to see I'm not the only one who was already thinking along those line.

 

Plus....c'mon. Mr. John friggn' French, man. He has not only been highly respectful of the history of the Heresy, he's done an excellent job with his writing, does his research, and Tallarn is his baby. If you think he isn't tracking the Iron hands on that hell-hole of a world, or of the impact such warriors will make on the war, you be totes cray-cray, yo.

 

what's all this IV talk? You had your book sorry it sucked LOL. na I will play nice.

I did love the scene when the stone father whatever his name was get drunk off his booty and Grendal has to donkey punch him and drag him back to the ship.

 

Sadly, I'm pretty much in agreement with you on the quality of Angel Exterminatus. The one scene you mention was one of a few handful that was cool. *shrug* 

[malorn24]

I am a VII follower and I am THRISTY for something more than short cameo's in HH. Crimson Fist interesting but way too short. The IF in AE gets pummeled and then turned into deranged mutants. Hopefully someone writes a FULL novel with the Fist in it.

[Emperor's Furor]

Well fists were meant to be at Tallarn, technically they were since an Imperial Fists ship tried to escape the system to worn the loyalists but was destroyed I believe, perhaps they got a message away or something.

[Perrin]

Imagine the chaos if an Alpharius origin novel was announced. I think it would be the fastest selling BL book ever.

[Anvilarium]

Imagine the chaos if an Alpharius origin novel was announced. I think it would be the fastest selling BL book ever.

That will never happen - not even FW gave an official origin for Alpharius in Extermination. Instead, they gave multiple origins (several of which have been mentioned in the BL Heresy Novels), and followed each one with the statement "This is a lie"

[Slips]

Imagine the chaos if an Alpharius origin novel was announced. I think it would be the fastest selling BL book ever.

That will never happen - not even FW gave an official origin for Alpharius in Extermination. Instead, they gave multiple origins (several of which have been mentioned in the BL Heresy Novels), and followed each one with the statement "This is a lie"

Well....the last line in that novel could be "this is a lie" but I fear that (depending on how good the book is) a lot of people would either burn them or just rage so hard Khorne would actually come into being.