Raeven Posted June 19, 2014 Share Posted June 19, 2014 Gee, i didnt realize there was a point limit in the codex'. (So there are rules that limit what minis you can bring in an Unbound list, is the whole point) I never said there weren't, which is why your strawman was so frustrating. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gentlemanloser Posted June 19, 2014 Share Posted June 19, 2014 It's no strawman. What do you feel does limit the minis you can take in an Unbound army then? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jolemai Posted June 19, 2014 Share Posted June 19, 2014 Anything with the Character (unique) tag. I.e. you can't have an army of Dante's. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gentlemanloser Posted June 19, 2014 Share Posted June 19, 2014 What makes 'Unique' different to a "1 per x" restriction? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dam13n Posted June 19, 2014 Share Posted June 19, 2014 So, an amendment to the statement at the heart of this discussion: You may take any units in your collection to make up your army up to the total agreed points limit for the game being played. Essentially makes it a little clearer. If you have a unit of henchmen, then surely as a "unit in your collection" unbound should allow you to use them. I do agree on the Unique part though. Having multiple Calgars, Dantes, Logans or Cormacs* "just isn't cool man". *See the Liber Astartes forum for this little gem. What makes 'Unique' different to a "1 per x" restriction? A unique model is just that, unique. Whereas Henchmen aren't. Yes, they normally require an Inquisitor if you are using the grey knights codex, but what of the inquisition one? That has no requirement for Inquisitors beyond taking one as a HQ in an Inquisition detachment. The "1 per X" notation is absent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raeven Posted June 19, 2014 Share Posted June 19, 2014 What makes 'Unique' different to a "1 per x" restriction? It's in the base rule book and is very specific, only one of each unique "model" per army. As far as I know, there aren't any unique units. All unit's is about as unrestrictive as you get. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gentlemanloser Posted June 19, 2014 Share Posted June 19, 2014 So, an amendment to the statement at the heart of this discussion: If you're going to amend it to make it work/fit your arguement, why not amend it more? I mean, I could just offer this amendment; You may take any units in your collection to make up your army up to the total agreed points limit for the game being played, but you still need to abide by any Codex restrictions placed on the selection of units in an Unbound army. And you Definitely can't take more than one of each Unique unit. Edit: On a more serious note, I can't find the passage that state Unbound ignores Detachment Restrictions. :/ but what of the inquisition one? Oh you could totally take as many of those as you wanted. Raeven, you didn't answer; What do you feel does limit the minis you can take in an Unbound army then? Is it just Points Limit and Uniqueness? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raeven Posted June 19, 2014 Share Posted June 19, 2014 ::sigh:: Point limit, Uniqueness, Has to be a unit. Yep. Pretty much it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gentlemanloser Posted June 19, 2014 Share Posted June 19, 2014 So if those, why no others? If "bring anything you own" isn't actually "bring anything you own", what has made you decided on those restrictions? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Venemox Posted June 20, 2014 Share Posted June 20, 2014 I believe the exact quote is: simply use whichever units from your collection you want. (I bolded it because the BRB did) The part about detachment restrictions and Primary Detachments are simply there to allow use of rules that refer to the Primary Detachment. Hence, it's under the header The Primary Detachment. Under The Force Roster, there is a callout box about Unique Models. This is the same section that tells you to write down which units you are bringing, which detachments they belong to, which is Primary, and who the Warlord is. All things that apply to Battleforged and Unbound armies equally. This section is seperate from the ones about Battleforged and Unbound army method selection. It applies while I'm writing down the details of my army (whichever method I used to build it), and tells me (in no uncertain terms) that I can only ever include one of each Unique model in an Army. Point limits are determined before you define how the Army is built, and therefore applies to both methods equally(if point limits are used, they are optional). What I can't believe is we're arguing the semantics of a rule that tells you to ignore the rules, and do as you please. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kristoff Posted June 20, 2014 Share Posted June 20, 2014 Still, even Unbound armies have a Primary Detachment, even if it is just one model of the Warlord. But I figure that much like Apocalypse before, something like a 0-1 unit of Death Company would have already been discussed and cleared any way. After all, we can be intelligent adults about this, right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gentlemanloser Posted June 20, 2014 Share Posted June 20, 2014 What I can't believe is we're arguing the semantics of a rule that tells you to ignore the rules, and do as you please. Becuase it doesn't actually do that. You yourself have stated there are adiditonal rules that restrict what you can bring, and you don't ignore these. So which rules do we ignore, and which rules have to stay inforced? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
markham82 Posted June 20, 2014 Share Posted June 20, 2014 You enforce the ones you and your opponent agree to enforce and ignore the ones you agree to ignore. Example Gentleman: Markham I want to have a battle with you where I bring a 10000pts force and you bring a 2000pts force. Markham: Sure, but I would like to bring 2 unique models to the fight. Gentleman: No, because then you have a broken list. Markham: Ok, please let me know what other things are not allowed and also I don't have the models that would stand a chance against your +/- 27 knights so would you consider toning down your list a little or find another stupidly rich guy who can buy that amount of models Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gentlemanloser Posted June 20, 2014 Share Posted June 20, 2014 Who needs rules! ;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Xcapobl Posted June 20, 2014 Share Posted June 20, 2014 Well, what about that 'Counts as...' situation. Here I have a home-made Chapter. Let's call them the Sanguinius' Angels. Their chapter master is a dude named Infernius. He is almost as old as the oldest known Space Marine, who happens to be his idol. He loves everything about Dante. Infernius even goes as far as to mimic Dante in every way, including his wargear (aptly renamed, of course). For the game I mention to my opponent I use the Blood Angels Codex. This specially modelled character with a uniquely identifying paintjob in silver uses all the rules and stuff Dante uses, but he is Infernius. What would this do to the unique situation with regards to allied detachments, or just even unbound army building? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teetengee Posted June 20, 2014 Author Share Posted June 20, 2014 Forge the narrative: cough more seriously, if my opponent had a super fluffy way of representing two of the same unique (perhaps alpharius omegon situation) I would be fine with it. In all honesty, as long as they let me know beforehand I might be ok with it just to see how it plays with no fluff at all. That being said would dante fanboy really be as effective as dante (and therefore use the same statline)? who knows. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raeven Posted June 20, 2014 Share Posted June 20, 2014 Well, what about that 'Counts as...' situation. Here I have a home-made Chapter. Let's call them the Sanguinius' Angels. Their chapter master is a dude named Infernius. He is almost as old as the oldest known Space Marine, who happens to be his idol. He loves everything about Dante. Infernius even goes as far as to mimic Dante in every way, including his wargear (aptly renamed, of course). For the game I mention to my opponent I use the Blood Angels Codex. This specially modelled character with a uniquely identifying paintjob in silver uses all the rules and stuff Dante uses, but he is Infernius. What would this do to the unique situation with regards to allied detachments, or just even unbound army building? There are no rules to allow Infernius and his counterpart Dante to play in the same game together. By using Dante (albeit under a different name) you are using a unique character. What you are doing is house ruling, so you would have to discuss it with your opponent whether they would be willing to allow it or not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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