First impressions of 7th: More Azrael+Ezekiel

[Darkangeldentist]

There seems to be something of a trend fielding Azrael and posting about it recently and this will add to the library of information on him hopefully.

 

I have now played 2 games of 7th edition, both have been highly entertaining and certainly no less enjoyable than 6th. The first game was pure Ravenwing against Imperial guard (I will always think of them that way) using one of the battle missions. This was brutal and short, if anyone is worried about competitive Dark angels then look no further than Ravenwing with Deathwing knight support (biggish unit) as Sammael leading those guys is brutal beyond words and the tool box you get from combination of banner of devastation and black knights is flat out ridiculous! First turn matters a hell of a lot but I've not had a single game end due to random game length. (Most haven't reached the third turn!) Second game was maelstrom with tactical objectives and this particular mission saw decreasing tactical objectives. So at the start you could potentially get a lot of points but at the game progresses your options for scoring become fewer and fewer. Time consuming but very entertaining and allowed for quite a lot of movement for tactical objectives. (You could discard one objective each turn if you wished.)

 

Game was 2000pts, Dark angels versus Chaos space marines with Daemon allies.

 

I took the following:

 

Azrael (Feel no pain warlord trait.)

Ezekiel

Techmarine with power field

Full tactical squad with vet sergeant wielding a powerfist and a meltagun

Full tactical squad with vet sergeant wielding a powersword and a plasma cannon

Rhino with extra storm bolter

Venerable dreadnought with plasma cannon

7x Deathwing knights (including master)

6x Ravenwing black knights with 2x ravenwing grenade launchers

Land speeder Vengeance with assault cannon

Land raider with deathwing vehicle upgrade (lascannons and heavy bolter)

 

His list was roughly as follows:

 

Chaos lord on bike with pair of lightning claws, 4+ invulnerable save, melta bombs, mutation and couple of other bits, mark of slaanesh

Squad of chaos space marines with powerfist champion and feel no pain banner (mark of Slaanesh)

Squad of noise marines with champion and sonic blasters (mark and feel no pain banner)

Squad of havocs with 2x missiles and 2x autocannons (mark and feel no pain banner)

Helldrake with bale flamer

Chaos bikers with champion wielding powerfist plus mark and feel no pain banner (sensing a pattern here...)

 

Greater daemon of Tzeentch (or maybe not) with upgrades and master level 3

20x Daemonettes

Daemon prince of tzeentch with mastery level 3 and grimoire of true names

Aegis defense line with autocannon turret

 

His psykers went for biomancy and divination, former on the walking prince and divination on the flying bringer of change. He got iron arm, endurance and leech life along with prescience, misfortune and forewarning. Ezekiel tried out pyromancy for a change and got sunburst, fire shield and the primaris (flame breath).

 

My opponent won the roll to go first and after remembering to roll warlord traits discovered that two of his infantry squads could infiltrate so the marine squad and havocs could be lurking almost anywhere. The table had half a dozen large ruined buildings scattered evenly across the table and a forest where the aegis defense line was placed. The objectives were similarly scattered with most closer to me than my opponent, this would prove significant later on. That was where the noise marines deployed whilst the daemonettes looked to attack my right flank the centre got the monstrous daemons and the his bikes and lord deployed to attack my left flank. (His lord got the mutation that grants shrouded, not shooting those bikers!)

Azrael and Ezekiel deployed opposite the daemonettes as a building near the centre would block line of sight from most of the rest of his army to them. The meltagun tactical deployed in the land raider guarding my centre flanked by land speeder vengeance that was using a building to shield it from the noise marines, the other tactical squad combat squaded with plasma cannon staying inside the rhino with techmarine which hid behind the land raider and dreadnouth. The sergeant's half of the second squad deployed in the open within easy(ish) reach of a couple of objectives. His infiltrators then deployed letting me see the chaos marines re-inforce the daemonettes flank by occupying the building near the ravenwing and Azrael. I then scouted closer to the chaos marines.

 

I did not steal the initiative. I won't go into a turn by turn run down so hope the following summary will suffice.

 

 

Early game

 

The Chaos forces early objectives required a lot of searching of objectives and getting into combat. The former was achieved easily as the bikes zipped across the table and daemonettes and chaos marines ran towards the black knights and my two HQs. The lord of change took to the skies and rushed towards me whilst the prince ran forward blundering through the ruins. The havocs tried but failed to wipe out the power sword combat squad you went to ground to hide from their missiles. In response the Deathwing knights arrived safely behind a solid wall guided by teleport homer as the black knights and Azrael/Ezekiel scooted as fast as they could towards the daemonettes. My initial objectives were also mostly objective based with a sideline in destruction. My armoured bunker spread out to achieve two of my objectives and lascannons sought out the havocs whilst the vengeance scooted to the centre and got a large blast on the noise marines followed by the dreadnought's plasma cannon, this killed a several marines, could have been more but cover and feel no pain helped him, the daemonettes were not so lucky and were wiped out in a single turn. This got a small early advantage in VPs. The retaliation was lacklustre save for the demise of the vengeance, did make any saves and it was easily blown out of the sky. The helldrake finished off my combat squad in the open too. The first real show of psychic might was thrown as the prince perils to give himself a super invulnerable save, fleshbane and armourbane alongside the iron arm he originally cast! Other powers were not so impressive and although the charge of the chaos marines against Azrael and the black knights ought to have suicidal my opponent made a near ridiculous number of feel no pain saves...which kind of made up for the number of wounding/rending hits the black knights scored. In the end he lost his champion to Ezekiel in the challenge and half the squad. The lord on bike and his mates went for glory and tried to get the land raider but the power field blocked the exposive charge. He got multiple objective points for destroying my speeder though. I wiped out the chaos space marines in the following round (having failed to hit and run!) and the land raider tank shocked it's way past the bikes to let the dreadnought charge the lord and bikes. The rhino with techmarine inside shuffled just close enough to keep the dreadnought inside the bubble but not the chaos bikes. My objectives were to kill a character and claim the centre objective for multiple points. As the deathwing knights helped to crush the chaos marines they consolidated into range to claim it and granted me the points to stay just ahead on VPs. The dreadnough crushed a couple of bikes suffering a single hull point in the process. 

 

 

Mid game:

 

The daemon prince decided to go for glory against the deathwing knights and backed up by endurance would be very tough to take down. He rolled for an impressive number of warp charge but only endurance was successful due to some terrible luck. The noise marines tried but failed to even scratch Azrael who stood defiantly invulnerable to their sonic weaponry and the autocannon shells. Combat was not as successful for either side as the deathwing activated smite mode leaving the prince on 1 wound for no loss and the Dreadnought crushed another bike for no damage again thanks to the power field. Chaos achieved no objectives on this turn. In return Azrael and Ezekiel stretched their unit out to keep me close enough to the objective for the warlord benefit whilst shooting up the noise marines, amazing cover and feel no pain rolls saw him still left with 3 members of the unit despite a mind worm that periled Ezekiel (my second that game!) and no misses or failures to wound from the black knights. My land raider moved to get me VPs for an obective and being inside the enemy deployment zone. Combat saw us nearly dumbstruck by the daemon prince survive whilst killing a single knight as the dreadnought crushed another biker for the loss of a hull point. So I scored several more VPs this turn.

 

By this time the helldrake has zoomed around far enough to gain sight on Azrael and the black knights but the bale flamer only just managed a wound on him as the greater daemon descended from the skies to consider pursuing the land raider next turn. The psychic phase was again filled with power that seemed to go nowhere with only endurance and forewarning succeeding. Thus again did the daemon prince survive combat for the loss of a single knight. The black knights survived the remainder of the noise marine's shots and the now lonely pair of  havocs scored a glancing hit on the land raider. The Dreadnought crushed another biker finally killing the standard for no damage again, it was now down to just the lord and champion versus the dreadnought and I was now up on VPs by a few points with fewer and fewer possible to score each turn.

 

 

 

End game:

 

The greater daemon decided the dreadnought had to die so abandoned the land raider in the hopes of saving the chaos lord, this extra push proved just enough and the mightly walker fell. The slow grind continued between daemon prince and deathwing knights as he hacked another single member of the unit down for no loss, his saves were great and I just wasn't hitting enough. The last of the noise marine fell to the attacks of the black knights, although it took charging into combat after he against made every save I inflicted wtith shooting. The land raider, happily finished off the havocs with the tactical squad safe inside. The greater daemon flew over in an attempt to save the prince from the remaining knights and this support swung the combat but failed to finish the unit off. His biker lord tried and failed to wipe out the plasma cannon squad who had successfully killed his last aspiring champion with shooting last turn. Azrael sought to rescue the last of the deathwing knights, diving into combat with the knights whilst Ezekiel stayed behind to claim the objective formore VPs and use the enemy weapon platform to shoot the helldrake, hit but he made his saves. Azrael challenged the greater daemon and although he failed to wound it didn't lose any wounds either. A single black knight fell to the daemon prince. Ezekiel and just issuing the challenge scored me more points and we now had to roll to see if the game would end. It did and we counted the cost.

 

14 points to 9, victory to the dark angels!

 

Apologies for the somewhat patchy battle report. It's late and I'm tired.

 

 

Thoughts and conclusions:

 

Tactical objectives are very interesting, most are quite achievable but some are definitely difficult enough to be almost unattainable. Luck will be a pretty big factor whenever using them but although each of us rolled at least one duff objective it didn't actively harm our ability to score at least some VPs each turn and it was only the turn where my opponent failed to score any that really allowed me to get ahead. It seems quite easy to let a small VP difference escalate into an unassailable lead if you aren't careful. It definitely makes mobility very powerful. However having resilient units has also become more important, making it difficult for the opponent to get VPs for killing your own units and characters.

 

Ezekiel and Azrael were really good, their 2+ saves made a huge difference and soaked up a lot of the damage that might have otherwise atritioned down whichever unit they join. Pyromancy proved a little disapointing but only because I ended up getting perils of the warp twice and that hurt my eagerness to cast more once I lost the second wound. However, being able to cast multiple witchfire powers from the same model in a turn is powerful and when most of them cost only a single warp charge you can sometimes sneak quite a few powers past with a bit of luck.

 

Deny the witch is still hard when the powers are blessings but aggressive powers are easier stop but it's still pretty difficult with the way warp charge works. Overall despite my opponent having a lot more warp charge than me I was still able to cast powers quite reliably as was he but getting those powers onto opposing units was a lot riskier. Also quite surprising how difficult it turned out to be trying to guage how many warp charge you need to spend to cast powers. More powers were stopped simply by not rolling enough successes than any deny the witch rolls.

 

Having Azrael and Ezekiel leading the black knights proved to be remarkably potent and in fact had I not failed the hit and run roll might have swung the game even more heavily in my favour than it did. As it was  they dealt a huge amount of damage for little loss and proved an enormous threat throughout the game. Infantry may slow down the bikes but they can still zoom forwards to extend threat ranges when you need it, they make anything hugely dangerous in combat and black knights bring a huge volume of attacks. A lot of models are a lot more frightened of Azrael's sword of secrets when a rad grenade has lowered their toughness (and the plasma before combat) and WS 5 black knights get a lot of hits. Since my opponent was mostly chaos space marines I also got to reroll a lot of dice too. Being able to jump out of combat can also make them a lot more mobile than you'd expect for infantry. I am encouraged the continue trialing them with Black knights.

 

 

Only two troops...

 

My penultimate  note is just a comment on possibly one of the biggest differences I have seen between the list I used and those I see on the forum. I only take a couple of tactical squads and this for many seems to be not enough troops but I have rarely if ever felt this to be the case. With transports now scoring as well I guess I have 3 but the thing is that having a plan for protecting your troops can keep them hanging around. The change to allow all units scoring status really lessens the need to have them in spite of the advantage you get now from objective secured. An interesting thing that demonstrated itself during the game was that if you can plan you unit matchups it is possible to have hammer units crush troops quickly and wipe them out before they might deny you scoring the objective you are fighting over. On the flip side models like Azrael and those near a powerfield can result in Dark angel troops holding back enemy hammer units who unless they are also troop choices won't claim or contest objectives you currently hold.

 

 

 

 

That power field

 

It deserves special mention that I will no be in the slightest bit surprised if/when they FAQ it to not project the fielding from within a transport beyond it's hull. During my game it was awesome and thoroughly ridiculous, my dreadnought should have died much earlier than it did along with the rhino and possibly even the land raider (that melta bomb on the lord got a lot of attempts). It's bonkers good when you can hide it so completely from torrent fire and high volume shooting. Stuff will still go down but it makes tanks a heck of a lot harder to kill.

 

 

I'm impressed by 7th's sutble changes and improvements. A lot of things seem to have gotten better and nothing appears worse so far although I do need more time with the rulebook.

 

 

[Gillyfish]

An interesting and engaging report DaD, thank you. It's really interesting to see how you approached the game and the fact that you ran a list which confounded internet wisdom. Your observation about the power field was also very interesting. Would you still take it if it did get FAQ'ed?

[RayJ]

My understanding of 7th is that no aura/radius effects work from within a transport unless specified. We no longer have the ruling (in the BRB or FAQs) where having one inside a transport allows you to measure the effect from the transport's hull.

That being said, I'm loving Maelstrom missions with the Dark Angels as well, and I will have to look into the Azrael + Ezekiel combo for toying around.

[Cactus]

My understanding of 7th is that no aura/radius effects work from within a transport unless specified. We no longer have the ruling (in the BRB or FAQs) where having one inside a transport allows you to measure the effect from the transport's hull.

That's what I thought until I compared the two rulesets. Under the rules for embarking passengers in a transport it says to make any measurements from the hull. It's unchanged from 6th edition, however it was an easily overlooked rule then and is no more prominent now.

[RayJ]

Previously, there was an FAQ statement that allowed "aura" effects to be measured from the hull if the aura-bearing item was inside a transport. We can pick up that debate elsewhere though. Thanks for the report DaD!

[Darkangeldentist]

Thank you for the replies. The power field is a worthwhile investment regardless, I am still reading the new rules so will have to look carefully at the relevent wording. It's a huge boon to vehicles though and makes them a very powerful option for a firebase. Very tempted by going back to multiple dreadnoughts in fact.

 

Having seen how important it is to grab objectives as and when they become relevent I am more tempted by the Dark Shroud, jinking it is extremely hard to take out with ranged weapons and since it scouts as well it can be anywhere so I might well find a place for it in more lists. The vengeance was fun to shoot but died in predictably quick fashion so probably won't see much table time from me. Although in combination with a locator beacon from a drop pod I could see myself deep striking it...overall an expensive indulgence but one capable of good work.

 

Coming back to reviewing the game again I am increasingly impressed by how much I want to use pyromancy powers. In the last edition they were definitely lacklustre compared to the other options but now with witchfire powers not being limited to one per turn or even at the same target or replacing your regular ranged weapon they seem much better. In fact with the generally low cost you can try your luck sneaking through the single warp charge powers with just a single dice but the important detail is that you are much more likely to cast them regardless of how many dice you use since only one has to be successful.

 

The new casting of psychic powers has really surprised me for how much subtlety it conceals. Simply chucking in masses of psykers for more warp charge gives you a lot of resources but it doesn't change the problem of judging how many dice you throw at each particular power. High cost powers are potent but anything warp charge 3 requires such an investment in dice that even with copious amounts of warp charge you won't be casting many powers. Basic assumption being that you should roll at least twice the warp charge cost if you want the power to succeed but with high cost powers variability becomes a serious factor. On the flip side those single warp charge powers are now more interesting as you can still try to ensure success by throwing lots of dice at it and will be just as difficult to stop as a high cost power, or devoting just one or two for a even chance of casting it and leaving yourself plenty of dice spare for other powers.

 

I think the new psychic phase and what it means for Dark angels is probably worthy of it's own topic.

 

Azrael and Ezekiel joining a unit of black knights were a lot more impressive than I first expected and I think anyone curious about it should give it a try. Whilst the foot-sloggers may slow down the bikes a bit in the early game they add so much resilience to the unit and in turn the black knights add a lot of mobility and flexibility to Azrael and Ezekiel. Giving hit and run to models that can't normally use such a rule is very, very potent. (WS 5 Black knights is also just a bit bonkers when you can also hit the enemy with rad and stasis grenades. Going first and easily hitting even elite troops is just fantastic. Since my game was against chaos space marines, mostly, the inner circle benefit of preferred enemy also came up quite a lot.)

[SvenONE]

I don't know if I missed it, but you attached Azrael/Ezekiel to the BKs and walked them all across the map? Then used them to hit and run since they were all in the same squad? Clever!  The funny thing about your troops selection is that despite having so few of them, you still managed to secure a significant number of objective points.  So far most of my objective securing has come from traditional non-scoring units rather than the Objective Secured ones, granted there were a few instances that Objective Secured DID come into play, but not nearly as much as the non-scoring units.  I generally have been playing RW lists, but I think this edition I may start to go heavy GW.  A buttload of tacticals, dreadnoughts and Predators.  All stubbornly sitting on objectives.

 

I think Pyromancy is a great offensive close combat disicpline for us.  Flame Breath, Sunburst and Molten Beam are good.  In fact, Emperor be Praised, Blessed is he, Molten Beam is INSANELY good.  With how beams work now, any unit that gets hit is basically going to be dead.

[Darkangeldentist]

Objective secured is a small bonus and it played a modest but significant part of my game but it's not something you need to build for at all.

 

If I had actually passed the initiative test hit and run would have really upped the advantage I had in that game but even without bouncing around in and out of combat the combination of Azrael and Ezekiel with the Black knights was brilliant.

 

I agree with you about molten beam, the way beam powers work now it's very potent indeed. I am almost certain my next Deathwing army will see a librarian taking pyromancy and dropping in with Belial for some hilarity with whatever fun I roll up. Spontaneous combustion is a lot better thanI first thought (since as a focused witchfire power you can snipe out special weapons with it) and the collateral damage isn't terrible and I initially missed that fire shield makes nearby enemies act as if in dangerous terrain in addition to the cover save, which is a nice little perk.

[Prot]

Nice Batrep, and although you definitely play Azrael and Ezekeil different than me, I definitely learned a few things.

 

++Since I am originally a Ravenwing player, Black Knights are almost in all of my lists. Having your HQ join them for Hit and run is awesome.

 

++I do disagree with the bit about super scoring units. Since we are playing exclusively Malestrom here, especially when my opponent was hoping to do the old "I'll have this crappy non-troop squad sit on this objective deep in my zone" trick.

 

Thanks when I drop pod Tacticals, or bikes (Azrael super scoring), or Deathwing (super scoring) right on top of them. Now I"m -stealing- his points (if they become available). So now my opponent has to decide..... Do I reinforce that unit? Or do I contest with my own super scoring unit.

 

The gravy is in most cases people aren't bringing as much traditional troops now in the early stages of 7th. I have a feeling that will change, but for right now it is an ace up my sleeve.

 

++ I'm really tempted to try a Landraider Crusader with a PFG. I have yet to use one at all. (I'm still not 100% clear what the legal usage of it is)

 

Thanks a lot for writing this up. I know what a pain it can be to get it all down on paper. Thanks.

[Darkangeldentist]

Some very good points there Prot. Particularly regarding troops and super-scoring. I meant more that building your list to maximise troop presence isn't necessary, plenty of troop choices help but a good plan properly executed using a well -rounded list is still a very viable and strong tactic.

 

Part of the reason I put emphasis on this is because I've seen a few thread talks about the difficulty of including elite and other non-troop options due to the advantage super-scoring gives. This is particularly true of Azrael who opens up so much of the Dark angel book for super-scoring status. My list contained no Deathwing terminators or Ravenwing attack squadrons because I wanted to use other units. It's not a better way to build a list, just different and that is what I want to promote. That there are many viable means of achieving victory and good table presence without constraining yourself to any one particular list or approach to list construction.

 

Your tactic of drop-podding in a tactical squad is brilliant and a prime example of the advantage objective secured status brings. It highlights a particular advantage marine armies have over other factions.