Butters Posted June 19, 2014 Share Posted June 19, 2014 Does the Iron Halo and the Invul save from the Terminator armor stack for a 2+ Invul save, or is this just wishful thinking? (note this would only be possible if you actually paid for the Terminator Armor) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/292694-marneus-calgar-rules/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stercus Posted June 19, 2014 Share Posted June 19, 2014 No. You only get to roll one invulnerable save. Pick the best one. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/292694-marneus-calgar-rules/#findComment-3723324 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Idaho Posted June 19, 2014 Share Posted June 19, 2014 Since the question has been answered, instead of wasting a thread I would like to know the consensus on Calgar choosing Warlord Traits with his special rules. On and Terminator armour should totally grant a model with a better invulnerable save a reroll each phase. Otherwise it's just rubbish compared to Artificer armour. Oh and we all know that the 5+ invulnerable should be taken in addition to the armour save. Hey ho. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/292694-marneus-calgar-rules/#findComment-3723440 Share on other sites More sharing options...
markham82 Posted June 19, 2014 Share Posted June 19, 2014 Captain please report to the Master of the forge, its seems your power armour are feeding you too much combat stims. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/292694-marneus-calgar-rules/#findComment-3723487 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dam13n Posted June 19, 2014 Share Posted June 19, 2014 Now Cap... you know we're not here to debate the validity or sensibility of the rules GW produce. Rather to present a reasonable and fair interpretation of what those rules are (not what we'd like them to be). ;) As far as Calgar goes... He gets to roll 3 times on the Space Marines Warlord Trait table (re-rolling duplicates) and pick whichever he wants (of the three). Now if you could choose to roll on the Warlord Trait tables in the BRB, then this special rule would have no effect as it specifically states that it only allows the extra rolls when the Space Marine Warlord Trait table is used. In point of fact however, it doesn't look like he can choose to use the standard trait tables at all, as the appropriate sentence starts with "He rolls three times on..." which doesn't allow for a choice. He always rolls on the Space Marine Warlord Trait table. Which is... interesting. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/292694-marneus-calgar-rules/#findComment-3723510 Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Librarian Posted June 19, 2014 Share Posted June 19, 2014 Now Cap... you know we're not here to debate the validity or sensibility of the rules GW produce. Rather to present a reasonable and fair interpretation of what those rules are (not what we'd like them to be). As far as Calgar goes... He gets to roll 3 times on the Space Marines Warlord Trait table (re-rolling duplicates) and pick whichever he wants (of the three). Now if you could choose to roll on the Warlord Trait tables in the BRB, then this special rule would have no effect as it specifically states that it only allows the extra rolls when the Space Marine Warlord Trait table is used. In point of fact however, it doesn't look like he can choose to use the standard trait tables at all, as the appropriate sentence starts with "He rolls three times on..." which doesn't allow for a choice. He always rolls on the Space Marine Warlord Trait table. Which is... interesting. But it only says he rolls three times on the Warlord table with a page reference. And the table on the page which is refered to starts with " ...a SM Warlord may either roll on one of the Warlord Trait tables in the BRB or roll on the table below." I think it is fine to roll on the ones in the BRB. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/292694-marneus-calgar-rules/#findComment-3723536 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dam13n Posted June 19, 2014 Share Posted June 19, 2014 Except it states that he rolls three times on the Space Marines Warlord Trait table. The wording of the Warlord Traits section of Codex:SM states that a Space Marine Warlord may roll on a BRB trait table or the table below (the Space Marine Warlord Trait table). So a warlord who is a standard space marine captain has the choice as detailed above. The problem comes from the way the Calgar's Warlord rule is phrased, in that it specifically mentions the Space Marines Warlord Trait table, which is the one in the codex. This therefore bypasses the stage at which you would usually get to choose to go to the BRB. Of course this is a strict ruling based upon the wording of Calgar's special Warlord rules. I doubt that I'd ever try to enforce it in an actual game (unless my opponent was a =][= description deleted =][= ). Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/292694-marneus-calgar-rules/#findComment-3723547 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Idaho Posted June 19, 2014 Share Posted June 19, 2014 But does the Space Marines traits section not allow a model to choose? I'll check the wording when I get home (i.e. find the book) but this could just be wishful thinking. *edit* too slow! Though I think Calgar's best off going for the Codex selection anyway. Captain please report to the Master of the forge, its seems your power armour are feeding you too much combat stims.Nooooooo! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/292694-marneus-calgar-rules/#findComment-3723597 Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Librarian Posted June 19, 2014 Share Posted June 19, 2014 Except it states that he rolls three times on the Space Marines Warlord Trait table. The wording of the Warlord Traits section of Codex:SM states that a Space Marine Warlord may roll on a BRB trait table or the table below (the Space Marine Warlord Trait table). So a warlord who is a standard space marine captain has the choice as detailed above. The problem comes from the way the Calgar's Warlord rule is phrased, in that it specifically mentions the Space Marines Warlord Trait table, which is the one in the codex. This therefore bypasses the stage at which you would usually get to choose to go to the BRB. Of course this is a strict ruling based upon the wording of Calgar's special Warlord rules. I doubt that I'd ever try to enforce it in an actual game (unless my opponent was a =][= description deleted =][= ). "He rolls three times on the Warlord trait table". No explicit "Space Marine Warlord Trait table" in this sentence, or is there a different wording in the digital codex? And the explanation to the table on page 76 says either roll on a table in the BRB or use the one below. To every table belongs a headline and an explanation - they are part of the table. As 40k uses a permissive set of rules the table without the explanation wouldn't do anything. It would just be a listing without any function. But I agree that those GW guys are grandmasters of explicit ambiguous wordings. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/292694-marneus-calgar-rules/#findComment-3723790 Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Librarian Posted June 19, 2014 Share Posted June 19, 2014 But does the Space Marines traits section not allow a model to choose? I'll check the wording when I get home (i.e. find the book) but this could just be wishful thinking. *edit* too slow! Though I think Calgar's best off going for the Codex selection anyway. Captain please report to the Master of the forge, its seems your power armour are feeding you too much combat stims.Nooooooo! I was thinking that Calgar might be best off going for the codex section, too. But now with the new 7th warlord traits.... If he could roll three times on the BRB he would have a 50% chance to infiltrate with three units, for example. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/292694-marneus-calgar-rules/#findComment-3723791 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dam13n Posted June 19, 2014 Share Posted June 19, 2014 I was looking at the digital version (only one I can look at when at work). The hard cover is as you said. Good old GW... different wordings in different versions of the same book. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/292694-marneus-calgar-rules/#findComment-3723796 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seahawk Posted June 19, 2014 Share Posted June 19, 2014 I'm sure glad my physical copy isn't the stoopid one, where I can roll 3 times on any table and pick the one I want. :D Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/292694-marneus-calgar-rules/#findComment-3723812 Share on other sites More sharing options...
SvenONE Posted June 19, 2014 Share Posted June 19, 2014 I'll throw in my two cents! As a little bit of precedence as far as which table to choose from I'll use Azrael as an example (updated via FAQ): If Azrael is your Warlord, he can choose any one of the Dark Angels Warlord Traits on page 28 (there is no need to roll). So it's pretty straightforward (to me) that he's only getting warlord traits from page 28. Additionally (since I can't resist), I don't see why they couldn't write the same language in for Calgar, I mean re-rolling 3 times? at that point why bother you're most likely going to get the one you want... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/292694-marneus-calgar-rules/#findComment-3723872 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Idaho Posted June 19, 2014 Share Posted June 19, 2014 Yeah the book says "he rolls 3 times on the Warlord Traits table (pg76)..." Looking at page 76 does tell us we can roll on one of the Warlord Traits tables in the 40K rulebook or roll below. So if we follow the table rules we can roll on any rulebook table too. If we only follow the Calgar reference, we are following his rules to the letter, but not the table. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/292694-marneus-calgar-rules/#findComment-3723916 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raeven Posted June 19, 2014 Share Posted June 19, 2014 The interactiveedition just says warlords traits table. Nothing about the Space Marine specific table. So you can pick between either. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/292694-marneus-calgar-rules/#findComment-3723922 Share on other sites More sharing options...
GreyCrow Posted June 19, 2014 Share Posted June 19, 2014 How does that rule synergize with the ability for the warlord to reroll their warlord traits in battle forged armies ? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/292694-marneus-calgar-rules/#findComment-3723927 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raeven Posted June 19, 2014 Share Posted June 19, 2014 Three rerollable for trait, no duplicates. Or just let him pick what he wants. About the same difference. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/292694-marneus-calgar-rules/#findComment-3723931 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Butters Posted June 19, 2014 Author Share Posted June 19, 2014 Well as of the latest FAQ there is nothing that says you CANNOT roll on any table, so that means you can, right? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/292694-marneus-calgar-rules/#findComment-3724112 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Strazhakov Posted June 21, 2014 Share Posted June 21, 2014 Am I the only one here that does not roll for Warlord traits at all? I like the system but despise the randomization. Gifts of Mutations or Warp Storm tables I get but why not randomize equipment and army lists while were at it? In our casual games we just use the houserule that anyone can pick their Warlord trait as they wish as long as they give a good reason for why the Warlord should have it. It also kinda balances itself because at least to my knowledge every codex has at least 1 or 2 strong traits. This way my friend can field his Alpha Legion without Huron/Ahriman shenanigans etc. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/292694-marneus-calgar-rules/#findComment-3725661 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Butters Posted June 21, 2014 Author Share Posted June 21, 2014 It makes sense. I know the only really good space marine one is Storm of Fire. The other that give you plus +1 to assault results if you commander is locked in combat is alright as well. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/292694-marneus-calgar-rules/#findComment-3725698 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Idaho Posted June 22, 2014 Share Posted June 22, 2014 Getting a VP for killing an enemy Warlord is potentially game winning but just not easy enough to pull off However I'd never NOT roll and I'd follow the rules when doing it. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/292694-marneus-calgar-rules/#findComment-3726070 Share on other sites More sharing options...
McFisty Posted June 22, 2014 Share Posted June 22, 2014 Since the question has been answered, instead of wasting a thread I would like to know the consensus on Calgar choosing Warlord Traits with his special rules. On and Terminator armour should totally grant a model with a better invulnerable save a reroll each phase. Otherwise it's just rubbish compared to Artificer armour. Oh and we all know that the 5+ invulnerable should be taken in addition to the armour save. Hey ho. Terminator armor also allows the model to teleport deep strike. That's the benefit which artificer armor does not grant. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/292694-marneus-calgar-rules/#findComment-3726174 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Idaho Posted June 22, 2014 Share Posted June 22, 2014 It's probably not the time and place but I don't think many people take Terminator armour on their captains and Chapter Masters for deep strike and relentless. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/292694-marneus-calgar-rules/#findComment-3726329 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Butters Posted June 23, 2014 Author Share Posted June 23, 2014 mmmm depends. sometimes its nice to send them in with a 10 man of assaults with thunder hammers just for a game changer. it basically free almost every other unit on the board because everything turns to shoot at them. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/292694-marneus-calgar-rules/#findComment-3727025 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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