Marneus Calgar Rules

[Butters]

    Does the Iron Halo and the Invul save from the Terminator armor stack for a 2+ Invul save, or is this just wishful thinking?   (note this would only be possible if you actually paid for the Terminator Armor) 

[Stercus]

No. You only get to roll one invulnerable save. Pick the best one.

[Captain Idaho]

Since the question has been answered, instead of wasting a thread I would like to know the consensus on Calgar choosing Warlord Traits with his special rules.

 

On and Terminator armour should totally grant a model with a better invulnerable save a reroll each phase. Otherwise it's just rubbish compared to Artificer armour. Oh and we all know that the 5+ invulnerable should be taken in addition to the armour save.

 

Hey ho.

[markham82]

Captain please report to the Master of the forge, its seems your power armour are feeding you too much combat stims.

[Dam13n]

Now Cap... you know we're not here to debate the validity or sensibility of the rules GW produce. Rather to present a reasonable and fair interpretation of what those rules are (not what we'd like them to be). ;)

As far as Calgar goes...

He gets to roll 3 times on the Space Marines Warlord Trait table (re-rolling duplicates) and pick whichever he wants (of the three). Now if you could choose to roll on the Warlord Trait tables in the BRB, then this special rule would have no effect as it specifically states that it only allows the extra rolls when the Space Marine Warlord Trait table is used.

In point of fact however, it doesn't look like he can choose to use the standard trait tables at all, as the appropriate sentence starts with "He rolls three times on..." which doesn't allow for a choice. He always rolls on the Space Marine Warlord Trait table.

Which is... interesting.

[The Librarian]

Now Cap... you know we're not here to debate the validity or sensibility of the rules GW produce. Rather to present a reasonable and fair interpretation of what those rules are (not what we'd like them to be).

As far as Calgar goes...

He gets to roll 3 times on the Space Marines Warlord Trait table (re-rolling duplicates) and pick whichever he wants (of the three). Now if you could choose to roll on the Warlord Trait tables in the BRB, then this special rule would have no effect as it specifically states that it only allows the extra rolls when the Space Marine Warlord Trait table is used.

In point of fact however, it doesn't look like he can choose to use the standard trait tables at all, as the appropriate sentence starts with "He rolls three times on..." which doesn't allow for a choice. He always rolls on the Space Marine Warlord Trait table.

Which is... interesting.

But it only says he rolls three times on the Warlord table with a page reference. And the table on the page which is refered to starts with " ...a SM Warlord may either roll on one of the Warlord Trait tables in the BRB or roll on the table below."

I think it is fine to roll on the ones in the BRB.

[Dam13n]

Except it states that he rolls three times on the Space Marines Warlord Trait table.

The wording of the Warlord Traits section of Codex:SM states that a Space Marine Warlord may roll on a BRB trait table or the table below (the Space Marine Warlord Trait table).

So a warlord who is a standard space marine captain has the choice as detailed above. The problem comes from the way the Calgar's Warlord rule is phrased, in that it specifically mentions the Space Marines Warlord Trait table, which is the one in the codex. This therefore bypasses the stage at which you would usually get to choose to go to the BRB.

Of course this is a strict ruling based upon the wording of Calgar's special Warlord rules. I doubt that I'd ever try to enforce it in an actual game (unless my opponent was a =][= description deleted =][= ).

[Captain Idaho]

But does the Space Marines traits section not allow a model to choose? I'll check the wording when I get home (i.e. find the book) but this could just be wishful thinking.

 

*edit* too slow!

 

Though I think Calgar's best off going for the Codex selection anyway.

 

Captain please report to the Master of the forge, its seems your power armour are feeding you too much combat stims.

Nooooooo!

[The Librarian]

Except it states that he rolls three times on the Space Marines Warlord Trait table.

The wording of the Warlord Traits section of Codex:SM states that a Space Marine Warlord may roll on a BRB trait table or the table below (the Space Marine Warlord Trait table).

So a warlord who is a standard space marine captain has the choice as detailed above. The problem comes from the way the Calgar's Warlord rule is phrased, in that it specifically mentions the Space Marines Warlord Trait table, which is the one in the codex. This therefore bypasses the stage at which you would usually get to choose to go to the BRB.

Of course this is a strict ruling based upon the wording of Calgar's special Warlord rules. I doubt that I'd ever try to enforce it in an actual game (unless my opponent was a =][= description deleted =][= ).

"He rolls three times on the Warlord trait table". No explicit "Space Marine Warlord Trait table" in this sentence, or is there a different wording in the digital codex?

And the explanation to the table on page 76 says either roll on a table in the BRB or use the one below.

To every table belongs a headline and an explanation - they are part of the table. As 40k uses a permissive set of rules the table without the explanation wouldn't do anything.

It would just be a listing without any function.

But I agree that those GW guys are grandmasters of explicit ambiguous wordings.

[The Librarian]

But does the Space Marines traits section not allow a model to choose? I'll check the wording when I get home (i.e. find the book) but this could just be wishful thinking.

 

*edit* too slow!

 

Though I think Calgar's best off going for the Codex selection anyway.

 

Captain please report to the Master of the forge, its seems your power armour are feeding you too much combat stims.

Nooooooo!

 

 

I was thinking that Calgar might be best off going for the codex section, too.

But now with the new 7th warlord traits.... If he could roll three times on the BRB he would have a 50% chance to infiltrate with three units, for example.

[Dam13n]

I was looking at the digital version (only one I can look at when at work). The hard cover is as you said.

 

Good old GW... different wordings in different versions of the same book.

[Seahawk]

I'm sure glad my physical copy isn't the stoopid one, where I can roll 3 times on any table and pick the one I want. :D

[SvenONE]

I'll throw in my two cents!

 

As a little bit of precedence as far as which table to choose from I'll use Azrael as an example (updated via FAQ):

 

If Azrael is your Warlord, he can choose any one of the Dark Angels Warlord Traits on page 28 (there is no need to roll).

 

 

So it's pretty straightforward (to me) that he's only getting warlord traits from page 28.

 

Additionally (since I can't resist), I don't see why they couldn't write the same language in for Calgar, I mean re-rolling 3 times? at that point why bother you're most likely going to get the one you want...

[Captain Idaho]

Yeah the book says "he rolls 3 times on the Warlord Traits table (pg76)..."

 

Looking at page 76 does tell us we can roll on one of the Warlord Traits tables in the 40K rulebook or roll below.

 

So if we follow the table rules we can roll on any rulebook table too. If we only follow the Calgar reference, we are following his rules to the letter, but not the table.

[Raeven]

The interactiveedition just says warlords traits table.  Nothing about the Space Marine specific table.

 

So you can pick between either.

[GreyCrow]

How does that rule synergize with the ability for the warlord to reroll their warlord traits in battle forged armies ?

[Raeven]

Three rerollable for trait, no duplicates.

 

Or just let him pick what he wants.  About the same difference.

 

[Butters]

Well as of the latest FAQ there is nothing that says you CANNOT roll on any table, so that means you can, right? 

[Strazhakov]

Am I the only one here that does not roll for Warlord traits at all?

I like the system but despise the randomization. Gifts of Mutations or Warp Storm tables I get but why not randomize equipment and army lists while were at it?

 

In our casual games we just use the houserule that anyone can pick their Warlord trait as they wish as long as they give a good reason for why the Warlord should have it. It also kinda balances itself because at least to my knowledge every codex has at least 1 or 2  strong traits. This way my friend can field his Alpha Legion without Huron/Ahriman shenanigans etc.

[Butters]

It makes sense.  I know the only really good space marine one is Storm of Fire.  The other that give you plus +1 to assault results if you commander is locked in combat is alright as well.

[Captain Idaho]

Getting a VP for killing an enemy Warlord is potentially game winning but just not easy enough to pull off

 

However I'd never NOT roll and I'd follow the rules when doing it.

[McFisty]

Since the question has been answered, instead of wasting a thread I would like to know the consensus on Calgar choosing Warlord Traits with his special rules.

 

On and Terminator armour should totally grant a model with a better invulnerable save a reroll each phase. Otherwise it's just rubbish compared to Artificer armour. Oh and we all know that the 5+ invulnerable should be taken in addition to the armour save.

 

Hey ho.

 

Terminator armor also allows the model to teleport deep strike. That's the benefit which artificer armor does not grant.

[Captain Idaho]

It's probably not the time and place but I don't think many people take Terminator armour on their captains and Chapter Masters for deep strike and relentless.

[Butters]

mmmm depends.  sometimes its nice to send them in with a 10 man of assaults with thunder hammers just for a game changer.  it basically free almost every other unit on the board because everything turns to shoot at them.