cyborgcommunist Posted June 19, 2014 Share Posted June 19, 2014 I've been running essentially the same army since 5th edition, a 10 man Paladin Deathstar with Draigo plus some Strike squads to go with. All that I added for 6th ed was an Imperial Knight (Hells yeah weeaboo huge robot). Looking at the 7th ed changes and FAQ though, is the Draigowing dream dead? Paladins lost Holocaust, which was hilarious to use against any horder army. Though the deathstar now gets Objective Secured with Draigo, I'm pretty sure the Draigowing gets wrecked in the new Maelstrom missions, they're not that good at moving around too much once they DS in. The Brotherhood Banner seems like a rather meh buy now (though an extra 9 attacks for 25 points should still be alright, but nothing survives the Paladins base number of attacks anyway.) There also seems to be an abundance of S8 or AP2 weapons coupled with the expensive Apothecary upgrade which sucks outside of 10 men Deathstars. But, Draigo now gets sweet psychic powers! The Titansword lost it's S10 warp-dust power against Daemons and Psykers but it's still got Daemonbane which is pretty a'ight. (Side Note: Are MCs still considered Daemons?). The new "to-go" unit seems like Purifiers now so I might change one of my Strike squads to the Flamey guys. I don't want to play the Baby-carrier (it's hideous) but the NDK seems like a pretty solid choice as always. But is the Draigowing still viable? I've always had fun playing it but it seems like I might get curb-stomped in 7th (I've yet to play my 1st 7th ed game) and getting tabled sure ain't fun. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/292700-is-the-draigowing-dead/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grand Master Caloth Posted June 19, 2014 Share Posted June 19, 2014 Draigo is still S10 v psyker and daemon. Not all MCs are daemons, no. I wouldn't say dead, but harder to play. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/292700-is-the-draigowing-dead/#findComment-3723578 Share on other sites More sharing options...
cyborgcommunist Posted June 19, 2014 Author Share Posted June 19, 2014 He's still S10? How? I recall there used to be a line that said all MCs were Daemons, has that been removed then? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/292700-is-the-draigowing-dead/#findComment-3723649 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reclusiarch Darius Posted June 19, 2014 Share Posted June 19, 2014 I would suggest reading the new Knight FAQ on Black Library. It explains the changes to Draigo there. Then read his codex entry if you're still unclear. Paladinwing has been on the backfoot since Riptides were invented. I don't see them coming back in any serious way in 7th. Also, Draigo took a hit because Paladins score without his help now. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/292700-is-the-draigowing-dead/#findComment-3723660 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grand Master Caloth Posted June 19, 2014 Share Posted June 19, 2014 Cause the FAQ only changed the first sentence. Iirc, the line about increasing S against psyker and daemon it's further down Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/292700-is-the-draigowing-dead/#findComment-3723678 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rurik the blessed Posted June 19, 2014 Share Posted June 19, 2014 Are you kidding me? Draigowing is now even better than beffore. Objective secure is a great rule for paladins. Thus, for movility now we have the Infinity Portal. so Draigo and his squad would move everywhere on the battlefield. If you have lucky you can get Clenasing flame, that is much better than Holocaust. so, i think Draigowing would change a little, but i think is better now. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/292700-is-the-draigowing-dead/#findComment-3723741 Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeffersonian000 Posted June 19, 2014 Share Posted June 19, 2014 Draigo's almost worth it just for the multiple OS Solodins that can DS on top of objectives. A handful of Solodins are an awesome complement to an Interceptor-heavy list, and OS Pallies are just that much more awesome! Match Draigo to Mordrak+Ghosts, a half dozen Solodins, multiple Interceptors, NDKs, and Raven squeezed in, and you got a pretty fast list that played to the mission. Of course, that is definitely not a Draigowing. SJ Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/292700-is-the-draigowing-dead/#findComment-3723753 Share on other sites More sharing options...
DinoDoc Posted June 20, 2014 Share Posted June 20, 2014 I thought Draigo's BFF was Coteaz not Mordrak. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/292700-is-the-draigowing-dead/#findComment-3724126 Share on other sites More sharing options...
IndigoJack Posted June 20, 2014 Share Posted June 20, 2014 Draigowing is pretty money if they're invisible. Best way to guarantee that is to ally in Sevrin Loth (assuming FW is kosher). Outside that, Tiggy is your best bet. Honestly, the biggest problem with draigowing isn't how quickly (or not) it can be killed, it's the lack of models you have to score objectives. If you can work a list out that handles that, you'll be pretty good to go. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/292700-is-the-draigowing-dead/#findComment-3724165 Share on other sites More sharing options...
cyborgcommunist Posted June 20, 2014 Author Share Posted June 20, 2014 I see, thanks for all the input guys. The Gate of Infinity and Invisibility sounds like a great way to have the Draigowing still work out. And I definitely missed the line about his S10. And yes, ever since Ap3 and Ap2 weapons became the new black and with the Greatest Good of the Tau showing up, Draigowing has been harder to play. Draigo's almost worth it just for the multiple OS Solodins that can DS on top of objectives. A handful of Solodins are an awesome complement to an Interceptor-heavy list, and OS Pallies are just that much more awesome! Match Draigo to Mordrak+Ghosts, a half dozen Solodins, multiple Interceptors, NDKs, and Raven squeezed in, and you got a pretty fast list that played to the mission.Of course, that is definitely not a Draigowing.SJ The Interceptor heavy lists with Solodins sounds interesting, I might give that a try. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/292700-is-the-draigowing-dead/#findComment-3724535 Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeffersonian000 Posted June 20, 2014 Share Posted June 20, 2014 I've moched one up at 1850pts: Draigo Mordrak + 3 Ghosts 3x Solodins w/ Hammers 2x 10man Interceptors w/ Psycannons, Halberd on Justicar 2x NDK w/ PT, HI, GS Only 13 WC, but with 2 TGS you are almost guaranteed 7 super-scoring units. SJ Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/292700-is-the-draigowing-dead/#findComment-3724576 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ozshock Posted June 21, 2014 Share Posted June 21, 2014 i would swap out the Gatling Psilencer off the NDK and give the interceptors psyammo...works wonders for me Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/292700-is-the-draigowing-dead/#findComment-3725034 Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeffersonian000 Posted June 21, 2014 Share Posted June 21, 2014 i would swap out the Gatling Psilencer off the NDK and give the interceptors psyammo...works wonders for me What Gatling Psilencer? SJ Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/292700-is-the-draigowing-dead/#findComment-3725129 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Juan Juarez Posted June 21, 2014 Share Posted June 21, 2014 i would swap out the Gatling Psilencer off the NDK and give the interceptors psyammo...works wonders for me What Gatling Psilencer? SJ I believe he means the "GS" abbreviated in your NDK entry - though I don't know if you mean the Silencer by that "GS". Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/292700-is-the-draigowing-dead/#findComment-3725156 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Valerian Posted June 21, 2014 Share Posted June 21, 2014 Great Sword Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/292700-is-the-draigowing-dead/#findComment-3725270 Share on other sites More sharing options...
cyborgcommunist Posted June 21, 2014 Author Share Posted June 21, 2014 GS is probably Greatsword, the standard loadout for the NDKs. I'm rather unwilling to field it just because it looks pretty hideous to me XD Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/292700-is-the-draigowing-dead/#findComment-3725506 Share on other sites More sharing options...
cyborgcommunist Posted June 22, 2014 Author Share Posted June 22, 2014 I wonder if a pure draigo wing list would work. 20 paladins with Draigo leading the charge seems like a fluffy ball of fun (up till a Riptide parks his pie plate on them) Considering how good they are now, I'd probably take purifiers in a storm raven to accompany my Deathstar. Transports for my strikes have never seemed like a priority to me I have a few questions about the knights though, I'm rusty with all the FAQs and rules 1. When do you run a NDK? I know exactly what it does but in what army do people normally throw him into 2. Can I FNP ID? Just a clarification as I read this elsewhere 3. Do the paladins casting Hammerhand still transfer the power over to Draigo? 4. Is the Brotherhood banner any good now? Paladins with Draigo casting Cleansing Flame sounds pretty badass to me. So far, they've always chewed through every unit I've charged them at. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/292700-is-the-draigowing-dead/#findComment-3725820 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reclusiarch Darius Posted June 22, 2014 Share Posted June 22, 2014 Relying on getting either 'Invisibility' or 'Gate' is very risky. For one thing they're entirely different Disciplines, and secondly if you don't roll either you now have no way to protect your extremely expensive Terminator squad. And they are now one Riptide away from being melted slop. Solodin Spam isn't really Draigowing, that's a different build that abuses target priority issues in 40k (ie forcing an entire unit to fire on one target at once). It's hilarious but I don't see it winning tournaments anytime soon. 1. When do you run a NDK? I know exactly what it does but in what army do people normally throw him into Every army you can. DK's are expensive but they offer a fast and very lethal punch to your list thats lacking, even with Interceptors as well. DK's demand enemy attention, and they can take a lot of work to kill without significant AP2. 2. Can I FNP ID? Just a clarification as I read this elsewhere No, rulebook explicitly rules that out 3. Do the paladins casting Hammerhand still transfer the power over to Draigo? Yeah Blessings go on every model in the unit, including attached characters 4. Is the Brotherhood banner any good now? On a large squad yes. On a combat squad, it's still good (+1A is nice), but if you had to cut points for other stuff I wouldn't make it a priority. Paladins rarely have issues killing stuff in melee, its getting there that's the hard part. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/292700-is-the-draigowing-dead/#findComment-3725824 Share on other sites More sharing options...
cyborgcommunist Posted June 22, 2014 Author Share Posted June 22, 2014 Every army you can. DK's are expensive but they offer a fast and very lethal punch to your list thats lacking, even with Interceptors as well. DK's demand enemy attention, and they can take a lot of work to kill without significant AP2.I'm currently running an Imperial Knight that I suppose is rather similar? I mostly wanted the pie plate and high Strength shooting. It's a shame the NDK is hideous. If I could convert one to look better I'd probably field one. Paladins are plenty threatening so having a NDK would be a good compliment to draw some fire off too. On a large squad yes. On a combat squad, it's still good (+1A is nice), but if you had to cut points for other stuff I wouldn't make it a priority. Paladins rarely have issues killing stuff in melee, its getting there that's the hard part.Agreed. I'm currently deep striking them down but they still have to survive one round of shooting before they can charge. And it's hard to arrange the spearhead when you gotta place them in a circle. Good thing that their shooting upon DSing is still plenty lethal I'd probably try for Gate and Sanctuary (or Cleansing Flame) for Draigo. Maybe try for Invisibility with my Inquisitor because he'll still get the Prescience I'm fielding him for Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/292700-is-the-draigowing-dead/#findComment-3725832 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reclusiarch Darius Posted June 22, 2014 Share Posted June 22, 2014 I'm currently running an Imperial Knight that I suppose is rather similar? I mostly wanted the pie plate and high Strength shooting. It's a shame the NDK is hideous. If I could convert one to look better I'd probably field one. Paladins are plenty threatening so having a NDK would be a good compliment to draw some fire off too. If you want that just get Guard Allies. Russes and Manticores are both solid long-range anti-everything large blasts. Knights are kinda overpriced for what they do, although 7th does make them absurdly tough (its basically impossible to one-shot them, you need multiple meltaguns to get past all that HP, AV13 and 'I ignore damage results lel' special rules). DK looks fine to me. I don't put the harness of mine, it looks like a Matrix APU (completely exposed pilot). You can mod it pretty easily, its all plastic and if you cut certain sections you can pose it a number of ways. Agreed. I'm currently deep striking them down but they still have to survive one round of shooting before they can charge. And it's hard to arrange the spearhead when you gotta place them in a circle. Good thing that their shooting upon DSing is still plenty lethal I wouldn't recommend Deepstriking them. Have you tried Scouting using 'TGS'? You can't assault in either scenario, but they're on table Turn 1 and shooting stuff at least. I'd probably try for Gate and Sanctuary (or Cleansing Flame) for Draigo. Maybe try for Invisibility with my Inquisitor because he'll still get the Prescience I'm fielding him for I'd generally roll on a single table per psyker, otherwise you miss out on the Primaris and your odds are lower of getting the powers you want. I'd roll Telepathy on both TBH, as you really want 'Invis', and Telepathy has an excellent mind bullet primaris in 'Psychic Shriek'. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/292700-is-the-draigowing-dead/#findComment-3725844 Share on other sites More sharing options...
cyborgcommunist Posted June 22, 2014 Author Share Posted June 22, 2014 I wouldn't recommend Deepstriking them. Have you tried Scouting using 'TGS'? You can't assault in either scenario, but they're on table Turn 1 and shooting stuff at least. Ah yes! They've got objective secured now so I don't need to allocate more scoring units. Thanks for the tip, I'll try it out! If you want that just get Guard Allies. Russes and Manticores are both solid long-range anti-everything large blasts. Knights are kinda overpriced for what they do, although 7th does make them absurdly tough (its basically impossible to one-shot them, you need multiple meltaguns to get past all that HP, AV13 and 'I ignore damage results lel' special rules). The guard do love their pie plates yes. The Knight is just more fun to me. He feels like a massive GK, imma paint him to look the part too. And he's massively hard to kill. In my last match, my friend shot his Oblit's 3MMs and removed 0 hull points. Knight ended the game with 4/6HP I'd generally roll on a single table per psyker, otherwise you miss out on the Primaris and your odds are lower of getting the powers you want. I'd roll Telepathy on both TBH, as you really want 'Invis', and Telepathy has an excellent mind bullet primaris in 'Psychic Shriek'.Invisibility and Psychic Shriek is pretty badass. Ain't Gate in Sanctic? I wouldn't mind that with Sanctuary either. I suppose it'll depend on who I'm facing Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/292700-is-the-draigowing-dead/#findComment-3725859 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reclusiarch Darius Posted June 22, 2014 Share Posted June 22, 2014 Ah yes! They've got objective secured now so I don't need to allocate more scoring units. Thanks for the tip, I'll try it out! No worries man. 'TGS' is great like that, having 4 different uses means it's a rare Knight list that doesn't want any of them. Scouting (like Shunting) also doesn't trigger anything the enemy has, like Interceptor and so forth. The guard do love their pie plates yes. The Knight is just more fun to me. He feels like a massive GK, imma paint him to look the part too. And he's massively hard to kill. In my last match, my friend shot his Oblit's 3MMs and removed 0 hull points. Knight ended the game with 4/6HP Yeah 7th really favours high AV with multiple HP. Knights are hard to kill, but it is 350+ points for 2 battle cannon shots, plus he can be locked in melee. I'm sorta keen to make a Landraider list nowadays, just for lulz. Ain't Gate in Sanctic? I wouldn't mind that with Sanctuary either. I suppose it'll depend on who I'm facing Yeah they moved it from Telekinesis. 'Sanctic' suffers from having few powers we either don't already have or want. I'd just roll it all on 'Telepathy', that way you have solid odds of getting 'Invis'. And if nothing else, 'Psychic Shriek' is cheap to cast and the other Telepathy powers are decent mostly ('Mental Fortitude' is trash but eh). Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/292700-is-the-draigowing-dead/#findComment-3725888 Share on other sites More sharing options...
cyborgcommunist Posted June 22, 2014 Author Share Posted June 22, 2014 Yeah 7th really favours high AV with multiple HP. Knights are hard to kill, but it is 350+ points for 2 battle cannon shots, plus he can be locked in melee. I'm sorta keen to make a Landraider list nowadays, just for lulz. Taking out the Knight is just trollface engaged. Might as well paint that as it's emblem. And yeah, it's overpriced for what it does but what it does, it does really well. Carving up landraiders left and right. Landraiders now would be back to their 5th ed unkillability, though slightly toned down. I used to run 2 Landraiders in a DA list to much personal amusement. Yeah they moved it from Telekinesis. 'Sanctic' suffers from having few powers we either don't already have or want. I'd just roll it all on 'Telepathy', that way you have solid odds of getting 'Invis'. And if nothing else, 'Psychic Shriek' is cheap to cast and the other Telepathy powers are decent mostly ('Mental Fortitude' is trash but eh). Can't win it all after all. At least no one can call GK OP anymore (I think?). The Primaris for Sanctic is awful specific and rather crap. Thanks for the tips man. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/292700-is-the-draigowing-dead/#findComment-3726064 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reclusiarch Darius Posted June 22, 2014 Share Posted June 22, 2014 Taking out the Knight is just trollface engaged. Might as well paint that as it's emblem. And yeah, it's overpriced for what it does but what it does, it does really well. Carving up landraiders left and right. Landraiders now would be back to their 5th ed unkillability, though slightly toned down. I used to run 2 Landraiders in a DA list to much personal amusement. I dunno, melta still kills LR's much the same as it used to (if you pen, which is likely, its a 5+ roll to kill). PFG is what makes DA Landraiders (or any Allied ones they get into) a real prospect. HP loss is harder to achieve on high AV, because at minimum you need S9 to spam into it. Gauss is also potent against AV14 but that's only one army. Can't win it all after all. At least no one can call GK OP anymore (I think?). The Primaris for Sanctic is awful specific and rather crap. Thanks for the tips man. No worries man. I don't think we ever were OP, and these days we are definitely facing uphill battles against a lot of xenos lists. 'Banishment' is fine, you usually never use it, but when fighting Daemons, its solid gold. And you are likely to see a lot of Daemons these days, due to Malefic, so its not that cornercase. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/292700-is-the-draigowing-dead/#findComment-3726465 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grand Master Caloth Posted June 23, 2014 Share Posted June 23, 2014 I just played against a draigo list, 20 palis, techmarine, vindicare, and a BC (after which we discussed possible changes to his build...) but I wiped him while only losing 5 models..... idk, I can see them being a hard challenge due to how few weapons they bring to the table Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/292700-is-the-draigowing-dead/#findComment-3726542 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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