New to Daemons. Seeking Advice

[DeamonQC]

Hey.  Longtime player here but I never played Daemons and I barely played against them (and never in 7th).

I have Necrons, Dark Eldars and Dark Angels armies.

 

I'm looking to start a Deamon army but I'm not sure where to start.  I'm not seeking an uber competitive build.  At my FLGS we play good build but none of the netlist you see out there (No super psykic death stars, Riptide spam, Flyer spam...etc)

 

What are the good units?  What are the bad units?  Should I limit the number of diffrent gods in the list...etc?

Also if someone could point me at a good up to date daemons tactica it would me awesome.

 

Thanks :)

[TheDarkOne]

Welcome to Liber Malificorum!

 

Whenever I start a new army, i think to myslef is this going to be anything like another army I play? and then I try to define the differences, and what different strategies you can put forward.

 

The Daemons Codex is ripe with variety, partly due to the amount of randomness associates with it. 

 

As long as you're ok with the occasional game where noting will go right, and every random effect will be stacked against you, then you'll be fine. There are however ways to mitigate the randomness.

 

So Daemons can do a bunch of different things. 

 

Daemons can play an in your face assault game.

 

A Khorne based list can put several big units of Flesh Hounds on the board, and a unit of Bloodcrushers. Take a named Herald, Karanak, and attach him to your bloodcrushers. now you have multiple infiltrating beast assault units in your opponnents face! you've just got to keep them alive until turn 2 when they can charge. Rushing flying monsters, or other fast units with this khorne force is a good idea, soul grinder with mark of slaanesh hustles well, as do seekers, and daemonettes. in an assualt based list, daemonettes can be better than bloodletters for troops, as they're more maneuverable, and rending allows them to threaten a wider variety of units. Big fast units that are hard to kill are the key here, and getting into your opponents face ASAP. Heralds are really wicked in lists like this, nameley the Khorne Juggernought Murderface Herald with the Axe, and the Slaanesh Steed I challenge you and you can't refuse and my unit rerolls to hit and I've got like 7 S5 AP2 rending attacks at high Initititive so yea herald is ace.

 

Daemons can play a nightmarish Psyker game

 

We've all see then net outrage about summoning demons, but summoning aside, Daemons can have a ton of warp charge to play with. Horrors are bar none the best deal on trooops for 99 points 11 models and 2 warp charge, that gets flickering Fire, Daemonology Primaris, and a spell from Daemonology. Tzeentch heralds add to the mess, and before you know if you'll have 15 or so native warp charge without trying very hard. And Daemons have access to a lot of different psychic disciplines. Like, A LOT. generating a ton of warp charge is only as good as what you use it for. 3 WC summoning spells are difficult, and the reward isn't stellar. making new heralds, thats great. taking a daemon prince with biomancy? good stuff. a lord of change loves to cast all his divination powers using the big dice pool, and Be'Lakor is utter rediculous when he can monopolize the dice pool. Do you want to play the psyker game? you've chosen the right army.

 

Daemons can play a hybrid list.

 

Build a list with infiltrating dogs, and a ton of warp charge to make them invisible. your opponents will love that. especially if you shell out the points for Be'lakor.

 

Daemons can build an almost all flyers list, with deepstriking small units of troops!

 

The flying circus is still a thing, don't kid yourself, its great fun to have an army of 5 monsters an 6 troop swarm models...

 

Where demons kinda suffer is in normal shooting. We only have flamers, exalted flamers, some whips and Soul Grinders. we make up for it with psychic shenanigans.

 

Some awesome units:

 

HQ:

 

Greater demons, all good, but I'd rank them like so: Lord of Change, Great Unclean One, Keeper of Secrets, Bloodthirster

Heralds, Ranked, Tzeentch, Slaanesh, Khorne, Nurgle (Karanak is a very useful to give bloodcrushers infiltrate)

Blue Scribes, very cool, can become a greater demon every turn (well only once, but has a chance to every turn)

 

Elite

 

Beasts of Nurgle, 4W T5 Shrouded It will not die bests with D6+1 Poisoned 4+ attacks. worth every point.

Bloodcrushers, great, but need herald support.

Fiends, used to be nutty, now still pretty good, being 3W T4 makes them kind of awkward, S8 really hurts.

Flamers, situationally useful. great as summoned demons if you can land them in cursed earth, or I've heard a big squad jumping around can be good, but I've never used them outside of summoning.

 

Troops

 

One for each god, ranked: Horrors, Daemonettes, PlagueBearers, Bloodletters

Horrors are the nuts, great at generating warp charge and if you roll on malefic daemonology for them, they could be a greater daemon turn 1!

Daemonettes are your goto assault troops, they're fast, high weapon skill, high initiative, 2 attacks and S3 Rending, that can hurt most things. 

Plaguebearers used to be great, now they're ok. too many things ignore cover these days, but can be situationaly useful depending on your opponnent. needs a herald for FNP.

Bloodletters have a good statline, but 1 attack, T3 and 1 point per model more than their friends puts them last. summon some to man your fortified guns with BS5!

 

Then there's nurglings. Excellent unit now that they score with objective secured. however S6 ignores cover is a big problem for them, I'm looking at you broadsides and wave serpents.

 

 

Fast

Lots of great choices here.

Flesh Hounds are probably the highlight, though some may argue screamers. the hounds are cheap for what they do, infiltrating T4 2W beasts with 2 furious charge attacks at I4 WS5? for 8 points per wound? YES PLEASE.

Screamers, previously used in a star formation with disc heralds, now, I use only summoned 3 man units to chase tanks. still useful if you want to build a disc herald escort, but you're gonna make your opponnents butthurt and complainy if they think you're using a dreaded screamerstar...

Plague Drones, Good units, fast, high toughness, poisoned attack, possibly better poisoned attacks, or some instant death attacks mixed in? excellent to summon, also great to run in big units. just avoid S10 things like wraithcannons and demolishers. summoning a unit of 3 with an icon is great too. 

Seekers are like scalpels with rockets strapped to them. deadly fast and fragile. they have a lot of attacks, cna move real fast with D6+6" ruin moves, rerolling the D6 with fleet, but being T3 makes them easy fodder for weight of fire.

I live furies, a nice cheap unit with mark of slaamesh is fast with rending, just don't get them into any combat they could lose. a nice 16 strong cloud ought to do it.

 

Heavy:

 

Daemon Princes, can be HQ, can be Heavy. Awesome killing macines. about 350 poitns when tooled out, as ML3 psykers, but can be done cheaper and still effective.

Soul grinder, AV13 can be a problem for some armies, and he's a big meanie. I like MoS and baleful torrent, for fast moving torrenting badass. or the same config with tzeentch as a cheaper alternative. if you want the battle cannon, take the nurgle one. no running, but shrouding may save your life. he also has 3 shots S7 skyfire if you need them.

Burning Chariot, actually decent now that it can move and torrent...

 

I haven't used the other entries, so I won't comment on them more than to say that I don't want to build a slaanesh Chariot. 

[Seahawk]

A very good defensive chunk consists of the following:

 

Herald

10-20 Plaguebearers

Aegis defense line w/lascannon

 

The herald should have the locus that gives them FNP. All told you'll be sitting pretty in a 2+ cover save with 5+ FNP, and the herald can man the lascannon to shoot down flyers. They're weaker to ignores cover weapons and close combat of course, but the rest of your army should ensure that doesn't happen. Use them to keep a home objective safe and secure.

 

If you need another big combat unit, go with bloodletters, as people are still frightened by all the AP3 attacks. More realistically though, give nurglings a try. Tons of wounds, small units, and Shrouding go a long way to keep them alive. As well, you can fulfill your minimum required Troops choices, for two CAD, for only 180 points. No other army can match that. Plus they infiltrate, which is always fun. If you want defensive shooters, go for Horrors joined by Exalted Flamers. Nobody will want to get close to that.

 

The big combat chunks should come from elsewhere in the codex. The HQ slot obviously has greater daemons, and they all fit the bill; it merely comes down to playstyle/theme at that point. The elites slot is great for Beasts of Nurgle and Fiends of Slaanesh. Both have their uses; to make Fiends really strong, try joining a Herald of Slaanesh with the locus that allows them to reroll hits. Then, combine the fiend's initiative penalty with her witstealer sword to bring it down on characters. Stay away from Flamers though, and only get Bloodcrushers for free (by summoning).

 

I don't often use my Fast Attack slots, but for the most part I like Flesh Hounds the most. They are fast and have decent stats, as well as practically ignore any psychic powers targeting them. Plague Drones are a most excellent unit as well, and always worth the points.

 

For heavy support, the go-to unit is now the Burning Chariot. Fast, powerfully armed; it's only weakness is its armor. Learn how to take the shots, and what should be given to the rider or chariot at given times, and it'll perform well. I personally like the Exalted Seeker Chariots a lot. They have better armor than the Burning Chariot, but the rider only has one wound. When they hit though, it's with a sacks of bricks in one hand and a dreadsock in the other. 4D6 impact hits at S4 rending will put a dent in things, and that's only if you take one! Most recently, I had three of each chariot, confounding target priority and ensuring 2/3 did the damage I wanted them to.

[Kilofix]

Regardless of everything else - this is for sure:

 

Plaguebearers and Nurglings are best for capturing and Securing Objectives.

 

Plaguebearers are relatively cheap, have Shrouded - giving them 2+ in Ruins, have FnP with the Herald, have Defensive (Blind) Grenades, and can Glance any vehicle on a 6 with Touch of Rust, though they are also slow. Take them with a Herald of Nurgle on Palanquin, Etherblade and Biomancy.

Nurglings are also relatively cheap, are fast and ignore terrain, have 4 Wounds and have 4 Attacks.

 

Daemonettes are the most cost effective troops for Close Assaulting other Infantry - even TDA.

 

They have Fleet (and bonus move), high Init, 2 Attacks and Rend on 6 - which means they will kill even high Tough / 2+ infantry. But they aren't very good against vehicles.

 

Soul Grinder (or FW Plague Hulk) is the must take Heavy.

 

It isn't very expensive, is AV13, still has 5++, has Skyfire if you need it in a pinch and can take Torrent or Battle Cannon.

[hornywingythingy]

Seventh changed a lot of things for demons, contrary to many of the above opinions, I'm not convinced demons are so good now, I used to play a circus fateweaver list, but also used the hound list to some success, very definitely tournament focussed was my experience.

 

HQ, basically all the fmc got a lot weaker, the loss of change flight mode then assault, alongside the vector strike and no contesting/claiming whilst swooping means assault fmc struggle now, and witchfire shooting really struggles. The guo (great unclean one) is still boss, roll on biomancy for an unkillable gd. The heralds are good, dependant on what unit you want them for, slaanesh heralds are probably the best, the blue scribes are useful, nurgle heralds aren't really worth it unless you are maxing plague bearers, Tz heralds are okay, but with the witchfire problems their utility has dropped. Khorne heralds and karanrak are great in flesh hounds.

 

Troops. Demonettes, flat out the best assault troops, great for claiming objectives in your opponents half. Horrors, warp charge battery and fairly survivable objective holders in cover vs ranged fire. Plaguebearers, not great, lost more than one game due to their inability to run, but the ability to hurt any vehicle is great. Bloodletters, just plain bad.

 

Elites, fiends, overcosted, and now their psychic counter is pretty bad, karanrak is better psychic defense. Beasts of nurgle, too expensive. Flamers, are okay. Skullcrushers too expensive and squishy, they will tend to overkill whatever they assault, if they make it there and then be exposed to return fire.

 

Fast attack. Screamers, great utility, a good anti tank unit, good for grabbing the relic. Flesh hounds, arguably the best unit in the dex. Seekers,squishy but fast and killy, very good with a herald. Plague drones, don't own, haven't used, seem expensive, would be infinitely better if you could buy a fly mount for a herald.

 

Heavy, soul grinder, a really underrated unit, great for almost any list. Skull cannon, not bad if you have the points. Burning chariot, still bad. Seeker chariots and exalted seeker chariots, now horribly bad, shame as some of the best models GW make imho.

 

I think you will enjoy demons, a few tricks can minimize the warp storm table, things like always taking upgrade characters for units gives more targets for the bad roll (instability test for one random demon cha on 3d6) and whilst not the busiest part of the bnc, the community in the demon forum is helpful.

[DeamonQC]

Thanks for the replies.  This should help me put a list together and I'll adjust from there.