Proto- 1st Legion rules (help needed)

[depthcharge12]

So I've been playing Athrawes lately and we've been cool with home brew legion rules at the moment since I have 1st legion (without legion rules) and he has 2nd legion with his own rules we are making too.

 

 

I need help from the community to make rules for the 1st while I wait for their oh so juicy arrival. I want them to be good, but fluffy and not over powered.

 

Here's some ideas I've pioneered with Athrawes:

 

 

"Weapons of a bygone age"

Rules - the Dark Angels have a deep armory that contains many old weapons used during the periphery of the great crusade that were handcrafted by master artificers on Mars. Models with the Legion Astartes Dark Angels rule that have volkites may reroll failed deflagrate wounds on enemy models. Additionally, models with plasma weaponry may reroll 1s to hit with plasma weaponry, however due to the old and unstable nature of these weapons, an additional roll of a 1 will cause an automatic wound with no armor saves allowed, or on a vehicle, an automatic reduction of 1 hull point.

 

 

"Alone and against dark void"

Astartes of the first legion were first among all 20 legions created and as such, had to fight alone and unsupported in campaigns. This has made the Dark Angels confidant in their abilities and mission. All Models with Legion Astartes Datk Angels have the USR Stubborn.

 

 

"Tactical genius"

Sons of the Lion have inherited a grasp of on the fly tactical brilliance in fighting and are always seeking to gain the initiative. All units of Dark Angels with an independent character have the counter-attack USR.

 

 

1st legion war gear/archeotech:

 

-photon pistol, S5 AP2 Pistol 2, Lance, Blind, Gets Hot! Range: 10" may replace any model that can take an archeotech pistol

 

-Volkite Cascade, replace Sicaran Heracles Autocannon with this weapon for +45 points

Profile - S8 AP3, Haywire, Beam, Deflagrate, Range 45"

"This weapon is a 'sawed off shotgun' version of the larger volkite carronade mounted on the fell glaive tank. It functions exactly identical to it except that it doesn't cause d3 haywire hits against super heavies."

 

-plasma blade 15 points

Profile: S user AP4, plasma overload*

*an arcane weapon of hazy origins, the user of a plasma blade may "overcharge the batteries". This replaces the above profile with:

S+1 AP2 gets hot! for all the users attacks in that round of assault. May only be used once per game but can be used in either yours or your opponent's assault phase.

 

 

I still need to try these all out. What do you guys think? Do you have a better idea?

 

 

Thanks

 

 

Edit: see kitwulfen post

[depthcharge12]

Should there be some sort of challenge benefit?

[Moonstalker]

Why is the Cascade AP2?  It's supposed to be a sawn-off version of the Carronade, which is only AP3...?

 

I like the idea of the plasma sword.  Weaker than a power sword most of the time, but as good as a paragon blade when you really need it... if you can survive using it.

[depthcharge12]

Why is the Cascade AP2?  It's supposed to be a sawn-off version of the Carronade, which is only AP3...?

 

I like the idea of the plasma sword.  Weaker than a power sword most of the time, but as good as a paragon blade when you really need it... if you can survive using it.

Whoops yeah it needs to be AP3 :)

 

 

As for the sword, it's supposed to be like most of what I think the stuff the 1st Legion has, the right tool for the right time. It's also an alternative for a paragon blade that's ubiquitous.

[marine7312000]

I like the look of these so far. Out of curiosity, are you planning to do stats for the Lion?

[depthcharge12]

I like the look of these so far. Out of curiosity, are you planning to do stats for the Lion?

Yeah I have a good idea, I want him to be fast and hard hitting. I'll post up his stats tommorow

[Iron Hands Fanatic]

The Legiones Astartes: Dark Angles rules need some disadvantages - all other Legions have negatives to balance them out.

 

I'd imagine something representing their insolent pride would be appropriate - some kind of negative modifier to nearby units should a Dark Angels character loose a challenge, and make accepting them compulsory?

[Komrk]

I agree with IHF, there needs to be some kind of negative especially with the amount of bonuses you're getting.

[SillyDreadnought]

Why not put the Volkite Cascade on a predator instead, since Sicarans are a late-Great Crusade/Early heresy era piece of equipment.

[depthcharge12]

The Legiones Astartes: Dark Angles rules need some disadvantages - all other Legions have negatives to balance them out.

 

I'd imagine something representing their insolent pride would be appropriate - some kind of negative modifier to nearby units should a Dark Angels character loose a challenge, and make accepting them compulsory?

I agree they need a disadvantage but I don't think they have "insolent pride", that's more of SoH/AL.

 

 

I'm going to write in that they need to accept and issue challenges whenever possible but I need something more balancing.

[depthcharge12]

"Circles within Circles"

 

Due to the solitary nature of the Dark Angels and their mistrust of outsiders, Allied detachments may never score or contest objectives.

[Komrk]

Preventing allies from scoring seems a little weak due to allies not being point efficient until the point where you would take a praetor, which means taking a rite of war, which means no allies for at least most if not all Rites of War

[Iron Hands Fanatic]

What if you don't take allies - you've got a Primary detachment with loads of positive buffs, but nothing to balance them out - you need a negative that will regularly effect your games - the advantages effect every turn, and so should the disadvantages

[depthcharge12]

I mean I don't think SoH have really any disadvantages other than Bitter Pride, which is of course an allies related thing..

 

 

However this is not entirely about rules, it's trying to play to fluff. I'm just shooting ideas out. I'm open to whatever you guys can think up :)

[Komrk]

Examples would be

 

Raven Guard can't have more Tanks than Infantry

 

Alpha Legion give up a VP if they lost more units than their enemy

[Iron Hands Fanatic]

To be fair, the SoH rules aren't as beneficial as yours - at the other end of the spectrum, Iron Hands can't go to ground, have to pass leadership tests to make sweeping advances, and have to take more infantry than jump infantry, bikes & jetbikes.

 

Here's what I'd suggest:

 

Wings of the Angel:

-If your Warlord takes a dedicated transport, then all units selected able to do so must also purchase a dedicated transport

-If your Warlord is equipped with Terminator / Cataphractii Armour, then you may not select more troops than you have units equipped with Terminator / Cataphractii Armour

-If your Warlord takes a bike / jetbike, then you must take more units with the Jump Infantry, Bike or Jetbike unit type than you have units with the Infantry type

 

Stand Tall:

-Outside of your deployment zone, all units must pass a Leadership test in order to make use of a cover save - if this test is not passed, the Cover Save does not apply to shooting attacks that turn (this does not apply to go to ground)

[depthcharge12]

To be fair, the SoH rules aren't as beneficial as yours - at the other end of the spectrum, Iron Hands can't go to ground, have to pass leadership tests to make sweeping advances, and have to take more infantry than jump infantry, bikes & jetbikes.

 

Here's what I'd suggest:

 

Wings of the Angel:

-If your Warlord takes a dedicated transport, then all units selected able to do so must also purchase a dedicated transport

-If your Warlord is equipped with Terminator / Cataphractii Armour, then you may not select more troops than you have units equipped with Terminator / Cataphractii Armour

-If your Warlord takes a bike / jetbike, then you must take more units with the Jump Infantry, Bike or Jetbike unit type than you have units with the Infantry type

 

Stand Tall:

-Outside of your deployment zone, all units must pass a Leadership test in order to make use of a cover save - if this test is not passed, the Cover Save does not apply to shooting attacks that turn (this does not apply to go to ground)

 

I really like that ruling IHF!

 

The last one didn't make sense at first but I guess you're right since they only made use of cover to our knowledge when using the trenches to assault that castle and using the factory building on Diamat for cover.

 

 

I don't want to keep adding benefits but what do you think about challenges? I think as knights and having the Lions mindset, that the leaders would always call out challenges.

[Iron Hands Fanatic]

 

To be fair, the SoH rules aren't as beneficial as yours - at the other end of the spectrum, Iron Hands can't go to ground, have to pass leadership tests to make sweeping advances, and have to take more infantry than jump infantry, bikes & jetbikes.

 

Here's what I'd suggest:

 

Wings of the Angel:

-If your Warlord takes a dedicated transport, then all units selected able to do so must also purchase a dedicated transport

-If your Warlord is equipped with Terminator / Cataphractii Armour, then you may not select more troops than you have units equipped with Terminator / Cataphractii Armour

-If your Warlord takes a bike / jetbike, then you must take more units with the Jump Infantry, Bike or Jetbike unit type than you have units with the Infantry type

 

Stand Tall:

-Outside of your deployment zone, all units must pass a Leadership test in order to make use of a cover save - if this test is not passed, the Cover Save does not apply to shooting attacks that turn (this does not apply to go to ground)

 

I really like that ruling IHF!

 

The last one didn't make sense at first but I guess you're right since they only made use of cover to our knowledge when using the trenches to assault that castle and using the factory building on Diamat for cover.

 

 

I don't want to keep adding benefits but what do you think about challenges? I think as knights and having the Lions mindset, that the leaders would always call out challenges.

 

 

Well, the Emperor's Children must always accept challenges & always issue them - but if they fail, then the unit they are in will be at -1 Ld for morale that turn.

 

Maybe you could say that if a character declines a challenge, they may not benefit from the 'Look out Sir!' rule for the rest of the game? (as in, they've shamed the Legion)

[depthcharge12]

I think I should just use the general rule of thumb: K.I.S.S. (Keep It Simple Stupid) for most of these. Here's a compiled group without the war gear:

 

 

"Weapons of a Bygone Age"

Rules - the Dark Angels have a deep armory that contains many old weapons used during the periphery of the great crusade that were handcrafted by master artificers on Mars. Models with the Legion Astartes Dark Angels rule that have volkites may reroll failed deflagrate wounds on enemy models. Additionally, models with plasma weaponry may reroll 1s to hit with plasma weaponry, however due to the old and unstable nature of these weapons, an additional roll of a 1 will cause an automatic wound with no armor saves allowed, or on a vehicle, an automatic reduction of 1 hull point.

 

 

"Stand Tall"

All Dark Angels characters must issue and accept challenges whenever possible. While a unit contains a sergeant or an independent character other than a Primus medicae, they may never use "Look out sir!" But the unit gains the Stubborn USR while the character with this rule is still alive.

 

 

Wings of the Angel:

-If your Warlord takes a dedicated transport, then all units selected able to do so must also purchase a dedicated transport

-If your Warlord is equipped with Terminator / Cataphractii Armour, then you may not select more troops than you have units equipped with Terminator / Cataphractii Armour

-If your Warlord takes a bike / jetbike, then you must take more units with the Jump Infantry, Bike or Jetbike unit type than you have units with the Infantry type

[Iron Hands Fanatic]

Seems pretty balanced - the negatives are less extreme, but so are the positives

[depthcharge12]

I need to fix the photon pistol to read S6 Ap2 lance, blind, gets hot! Pistol 2

 

 

I added +1 strength as lance lowers all AV above 12 to 12 so he's able to glance vehicles.

 

 

Is the plasma blade a little too much? I feel it is pretty balanced as it costs more than a power sword, but is worse most of the time until it's ability is activated but it could blow up and doesn't have murderous strike.

[Augustus]

Nicely done depthcharge and great feedback IHF

 

Plasma blades seem like a weaker version of smite which is pretty cool.