Kastor Krieg Posted June 21, 2014 Share Posted June 21, 2014 http://i.imgur.com/30VlLKx.jpg Source is HH2: Massacre. Two actions by Space Wolves, both "redacted". I guess the only question is what the heck happened right before the Dropsite Massacre?! oO Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/292780-so-we-actually-know-when-the-two-legions-were-hunted-down/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
Emperor's Furor Posted June 21, 2014 Share Posted June 21, 2014 I don't think they are the missing two legions, I think they are some incidents like the destruction of the Iron Warriors home world etc. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/292780-so-we-actually-know-when-the-two-legions-were-hunted-down/#findComment-3725187 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slips Posted June 21, 2014 Share Posted June 21, 2014 You're right I too noticed this and wondered if they were the 2 missing legions but the time line doesn't seem right since thats when the Emp put Lorgar down for the whole Religion thing and got the Ultras to do what the event says. I'm also pretty sure that Corax had been recovered by that point and had been told to drop the subject of the 2 missing upon his meeting with the big E. Maybe I'm just misremembering things. Maybe its FW throwing us a bone/Easter Egg-thing..kinda? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/292780-so-we-actually-know-when-the-two-legions-were-hunted-down/#findComment-3725188 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kastor Krieg Posted June 21, 2014 Author Share Posted June 21, 2014 I don't know that it's "too late into the story". Take a look, Alpharius assumes command of XXth Legion fifteen years later. And only then, as it was said, the events of the books began unfolding. And here's a thought I once had. WHAT IF there were never a 2nd and 11th Primarch? Or rather, if they are Alpharius and Omegon and the "late discovery" 20th legion was stood up to give them both a "second chance"? :> Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/292780-so-we-actually-know-when-the-two-legions-were-hunted-down/#findComment-3725194 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slips Posted June 21, 2014 Share Posted June 21, 2014 well, its at this point that I'd go read the Alpharius and Omegon conspiracy theories/pieces on 1d4chan and maybe add to them haha Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/292780-so-we-actually-know-when-the-two-legions-were-hunted-down/#findComment-3725199 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Valkyrion Posted June 21, 2014 Share Posted June 21, 2014 We know (or at the very least it's heavily implied) it happened before Ullanor, but we don't for certain it happened before Monarchia do we? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/292780-so-we-actually-know-when-the-two-legions-were-hunted-down/#findComment-3725206 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beachymike123 Posted June 21, 2014 Share Posted June 21, 2014 I don't think they are the missing two legions, I think they are some incidents like the destruction of the Iron Warriors home world etc. Just so you are aware the destruction of Olympia is the destruction of the Iron Warriors' home world. I would have thought that the 2 missing legions would have happened earlier though than as shown here, if it is what happened. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/292780-so-we-actually-know-when-the-two-legions-were-hunted-down/#findComment-3725228 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kol Saresk Posted June 21, 2014 Share Posted June 21, 2014 http://i.imgur.com/30VlLKx.jpg Source is HH2: Massacre. Two actions by Space Wolves, both "redacted". I guess the only question is what the heck happened right before the Dropsite Massacre?! oO No. The Legions disappeared before this timeline happened as the timeline began with the events at the beginning of the First Heretic. Those events mention that the Legions had already been wiped out and had caused Lorgar grief and that the XVII Legion itself had participated in at least one of the exterminations, just before which one makes the infamous "speculation/rumormongering" that what was left of the two Legions might have been absorbed into the XIII since it experienced a rapid growth increase at around the same time. The only way we would get a time window is if we ever found out when Alpharius was "officially" discovered(not when he took command of his Legion) by the Imperium, which according to Extermination, is unknown even to the Imperium as all twenty of the Primarchs are supposed to have met before the two Lost Primarchs became Lost. In summary, we ain't got jack. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/292780-so-we-actually-know-when-the-two-legions-were-hunted-down/#findComment-3725236 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Valkyrion Posted June 21, 2014 Share Posted June 21, 2014 The only way we would get a time window is if we ever found out when Alpharius was "officially" discovered(not when he took command of his Legion) by the Imperium, which according to Extermination, is unknown even to the Imperium as all twenty of the Primarchs are supposed to have met before the two Lost Primarchs became Lost. Except Deliverance Lost suggests Corax didn't meet the other two, IIRR Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/292780-so-we-actually-know-when-the-two-legions-were-hunted-down/#findComment-3725243 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adra'Melek Posted June 21, 2014 Share Posted June 21, 2014 All Deliverance lost says it that two brothers were missing. Gone forever or not found yet? We know Alpharius was found last so how does the Emperor know he wasn't lost as well? The semi-official answer is that it's referring to two Primarchs not found yet, Alpharius and a missing one. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/292780-so-we-actually-know-when-the-two-legions-were-hunted-down/#findComment-3725248 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kol Saresk Posted June 21, 2014 Share Posted June 21, 2014 The only way we would get a time window is if we ever found out when Alpharius was "officially" discovered(not when he took command of his Legion) by the Imperium, which according to Extermination, is unknown even to the Imperium as all twenty of the Primarchs are supposed to have met before the two Lost Primarchs became Lost. Except Deliverance Lost suggests Corax didn't meet the other two, IIRR All Deliverance lost says it that two brothers were missing. Gone forever or not found yet? We know Alpharius was found last so how does the Emperor know he wasn't lost as well? The semi-official answer is that it's referring to two Primarchs not found yet, Alpharius and a missing one. This is why I said "supposed" because the "semi-official" answer of "Its referring to those not yet found" does not match the tone of the scene and seems like it was an afterthought to explain how all twenty were supposed to have met. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/292780-so-we-actually-know-when-the-two-legions-were-hunted-down/#findComment-3725249 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leif Bearclaw Posted June 21, 2014 Share Posted June 21, 2014 Well, as far as the Lost Legions, who knows? All we seem likely to get is the occasional [data redacted] and (to borrow a phrase from the Mass Effect 3 ending debacle) 'lots of speculation for everyone!'. However, that timeline does bother me. In the novels, when does Horus have his planning meeting where he tells Maloghurst that he's changed Russ's orders and Magnus 'won't be leaving Prospero alive'? I thought it was in Galaxy in Flames (been too long since I read the initial 3 books), which would put Prospero after Istvaan III, but that timeline has it happening before. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/292780-so-we-actually-know-when-the-two-legions-were-hunted-down/#findComment-3725250 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Olis Posted June 21, 2014 Share Posted June 21, 2014 Either way, we have a definitive date for when the two missing primarchs were not around: 964.M30. Which is something, I suppose. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/292780-so-we-actually-know-when-the-two-legions-were-hunted-down/#findComment-3725254 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kol Saresk Posted June 21, 2014 Share Posted June 21, 2014 Well, as far as the Lost Legions, who knows? All we seem likely to get is the occasional [data redacted] and (to borrow a phrase from the Mass Effect 3 ending debacle) 'lots of speculation for everyone!'. However, that timeline does bother me. In the novels, when does Horus have his planning meeting where he tells Maloghurst that he's changed Russ's orders and Magnus 'won't be leaving Prospero alive'? I thought it was in Galaxy in Flames (been too long since I read the initial 3 books), which would put Prospero after Istvaan III, but that timeline has it happening before. Well considering the large amount of [Data Redacted] that seems to flow through Imperial History in general, it is entirely plausible that Maloghurst was simply unaware of Prospero happening yet as the information was possibly being kept censored to all but the highest security clearances. I mean, afterall the original orders were capture, not attack and by both accounts, the Space Wolves fired the first shots and were unprovoked by the Sons. So there might have even been a small investigation to find out why that happened so since "A daemon made me attack my brother" sounds like a pretty sorry excuse. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/292780-so-we-actually-know-when-the-two-legions-were-hunted-down/#findComment-3725258 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Komrk Posted June 21, 2014 Share Posted June 21, 2014 Corax was the second to last found if I remember correctly. So either the Emperor knew about Omegon or one of the other legions had already been dealt with. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/292780-so-we-actually-know-when-the-two-legions-were-hunted-down/#findComment-3725260 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adra'Melek Posted June 21, 2014 Share Posted June 21, 2014 Corax was the second to last found if I remember correctly. So either the Emperor knew about Omegon or one of the other legions had already been dealt with. Second to last of the 18 that were around at the heresy. 3rd to last out of all 20 (supposedly). I think the tone of what the Emperor said to Corax only suggests the 2 are already dealt with if you know they're going to be dealt with. If the Emperor didn't know he was going to have to have two of his sons destroyed I imagine it would make him sad that he still had two missing. But when we know he's going to destroy two of them it seems a bit tame...if that makes sense. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/292780-so-we-actually-know-when-the-two-legions-were-hunted-down/#findComment-3725265 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Perrin Posted June 21, 2014 Share Posted June 21, 2014 Alpharius taking command of his Legion isn't the same as him being found. We know that all the Primarchs met each other, that the references to the Missing Primarchs in TFH are going to be retconned, and that the conversation in DL is referring to a Missing Primarch and Alpharius simply because they were both still missing. Is it possible that one of the redacted could be the Night of the Wolf? It doesn't list the World Eaters as being involved in either event, but if they did it would make it too obvious. Could the REDACTED before the Dropsite Massacre be the Webway War? I'm not entirely sure on the timing of all those events as The Outcast Dead kind of muddled things. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/292780-so-we-actually-know-when-the-two-legions-were-hunted-down/#findComment-3725276 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kol Saresk Posted June 21, 2014 Share Posted June 21, 2014 Alpharius taking command of his Legion isn't the same as him being found.This times infinity. Taking command does NOT equal when you are found. Even Extermination points to this as it isn't even clear to Imperial records when Alpharius was "found", only that the XX was the last Legion off the production block, that it spent a significant amount of time under the Emperor's personal command and that Alpharius took command of it only two decades before the Heresy. Not that Alpharius was found two decades before the Heresy. So, no matter what, The First Heretic serves as a fixed point in time that the Lost Legions had already been lost by. And since The First Heretic begins with the censure at Monarchia, which is also the beginning point of the above timeline, the [Data Redacted] events with the Space Wolves and others are NOT related to the Lost Legions. As to everything else, it should be pointed out that Gav Thorpe wrote Deliverance Lost and it wouldn't be the first time he wrote a novel that tried to rock the boat, a la Angels of Darkness. EDIT: The Webway War is an ongoing event. It began when Magnus broke the barrier on Terra and as far as I know, stopped with the Siege when the Emperor was placed upon it after Horus was killed. Although I wouldn't be surprised if it was actually an ongoing thing even in 40K. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/292780-so-we-actually-know-when-the-two-legions-were-hunted-down/#findComment-3725303 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Emperor's Furor Posted June 21, 2014 Share Posted June 21, 2014 Alpharius taking command of his Legion isn't the same as him being found. We know that all the Primarchs met each other, that the references to the Missing Primarchs in TFH are going to be retconned, and that the conversation in DL is referring to a Missing Primarch and Alpharius simply because they were both still missing. Is it possible that one of the redacted could be the Night of the Wolf? It doesn't list the World Eaters as being involved in either event, but if they did it would make it too obvious. Could the REDACTED before the Dropsite Massacre be the Webway War? I'm not entirely sure on the timing of all those events as The Outcast Dead kind of muddled things. Is that being retconned? Where was that said? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/292780-so-we-actually-know-when-the-two-legions-were-hunted-down/#findComment-3725310 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kol Saresk Posted June 21, 2014 Share Posted June 21, 2014 Alpharius taking command of his Legion isn't the same as him being found. We know that all the Primarchs met each other, that the references to the Missing Primarchs in TFH are going to be retconned, and that the conversation in DL is referring to a Missing Primarch and Alpharius simply because they were both still missing. Is it possible that one of the redacted could be the Night of the Wolf? It doesn't list the World Eaters as being involved in either event, but if they did it would make it too obvious. Could the REDACTED before the Dropsite Massacre be the Webway War? I'm not entirely sure on the timing of all those events as The Outcast Dead kind of muddled things. Is that being retconned? Where was that said? It isn't, precisely because the date Alpharius took command is not the same date as when he was found. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/292780-so-we-actually-know-when-the-two-legions-were-hunted-down/#findComment-3725315 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Emperor's Furor Posted June 21, 2014 Share Posted June 21, 2014 Ah k, I know Vulkan was found pretty early but didn't take command of his legion for a while and only acted as the Emperor's Left/Right Hand in battles till the salamanders nearly got destroyed. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/292780-so-we-actually-know-when-the-two-legions-were-hunted-down/#findComment-3725318 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Juan Juarez Posted June 21, 2014 Share Posted June 21, 2014 Alpharius taking command of his Legion isn't the same as him being found.This times infinity. Taking command does NOT equal when you are found. Plus every tale where the discovery of a Primarch is mentioned you get the little crumbs about them about them meeting and getting to know their brothers. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/292780-so-we-actually-know-when-the-two-legions-were-hunted-down/#findComment-3725323 Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_son_of_Dorn Posted June 21, 2014 Share Posted June 21, 2014 Are there even any snipps of info where any of the primarchs even met the deleted 2? As much as its abit of flavour and mystery and a chance of previous betryal whicy was routed out the missing/deleted two are just an oversight imo now Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/292780-so-we-actually-know-when-the-two-legions-were-hunted-down/#findComment-3725334 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Juan Juarez Posted June 21, 2014 Share Posted June 21, 2014 I seem to recall something of Dorn starting to speak of them/one of them until Malcador silences him - but I may have made that up because I can't remember where, unless it was one of the short stories. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/292780-so-we-actually-know-when-the-two-legions-were-hunted-down/#findComment-3725336 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adra'Melek Posted June 21, 2014 Share Posted June 21, 2014 Was that in Lightning tower? I seem to remember some statues of the Primarchs and empty plinths or covered statues. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/292780-so-we-actually-know-when-the-two-legions-were-hunted-down/#findComment-3725348 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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