Athrawes Posted June 22, 2014 Share Posted June 22, 2014 I disagree that all of the mentions of the Lost legions are harmful to the setting, or even unsatisfying. I know that for me personally, it has given just the right amount of conjecture to open up the DIY aspect of the Horus heresy. I've been overwhelmed by the positive encouragement and the excitement for my II Legion project, and if one fan with limited information is able to craft a unique legion with large appeal (I know of at least 4 people now who have been talking to me about starting their own II legion army based off of the lore for mine), than black library or Forgeworld certainly could. But in truth, I'm glad they that they don't want to. Because it has opened the door for intense DIY in the Forgeworld Heresy setting. anything that encourages creativity and wonder within the hobby is a good thing. And besides, no feeling in this hobby is ever going to top being able to design my own Primarch with art and model from the ground up. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/292780-so-we-actually-know-when-the-two-legions-were-hunted-down/page/3/#findComment-3726194 Share on other sites More sharing options...
deathspectersgt7 Posted June 22, 2014 Share Posted June 22, 2014 Big WIN!!! for Athrawes Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/292780-so-we-actually-know-when-the-two-legions-were-hunted-down/page/3/#findComment-3726237 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Memento Of Prospero Posted June 23, 2014 Share Posted June 23, 2014 I disagree that all of the mentions of the Lost legions are harmful to the setting, or even unsatisfying. I know that for me personally, it has given just the right amount of conjecture to open up the DIY aspect of the Horus heresy. I've been overwhelmed by the positive encouragement and the excitement for my II Legion project, and if one fan with limited information is able to craft a unique legion with large appeal (I know of at least 4 people now who have been talking to me about starting their own II legion army based off of the lore for mine), than black library or Forgeworld certainly could. But in truth, I'm glad they that they don't want to. Because it has opened the door for intense DIY in the Forgeworld Heresy setting. anything that encourages creativity and wonder within the hobby is a good thing. And besides, no feeling in this hobby is ever going to top being able to design my own Primarch with art and model from the ground up. I did say that some allusions are fine, it's just the ones that are misleading that bug me ;) I had to more or less re-explain my original post as what I meant to say came out rather wrong, and the more I kept reading it, the more the :cuss meter kept rising in my head. It sounded like nothing constructing at all. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/292780-so-we-actually-know-when-the-two-legions-were-hunted-down/page/3/#findComment-3726548 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Valkyrion Posted June 23, 2014 Share Posted June 23, 2014 i must admit that the mentions of the missing primarchs are my favourite parts of the series. The first six books or so absorbed me, but I found that in later books I kinda skim read through to the dialogue bits - I'm genuinely not interested in fight scenes unless someone important dies in one, but the first few books had that initial shock factor of the marines that were being killed by their own. But the thing with dialogue is that you have to read it from the POV of the characters, not as the all seeing all knowing reader you are - that's why (and I'm not just trying to blow smoke up ADB's arse) the conversation in TFH is the best of the missing primarch scenes in the series. It's like when a celebrity dies young and the pub conversation goes from drugs to suicide to murder to the freaking illuminati had him killed. The innocent supposition of things beyond their ken and control. same with Angels of Darkness - if you read it as Astelan saying 'waiting to see who won' then it's fine. If you read it as 'Gav Thorpe has just said the Lion was waiting to see who won! OMG golly gee etc' then it's not fine. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/292780-so-we-actually-know-when-the-two-legions-were-hunted-down/page/3/#findComment-3726759 Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_son_of_Dorn Posted June 23, 2014 Share Posted June 23, 2014 2 missing primarchs.........along time ago in a galaxy far far away............one became a sith lord the other a jedi, they would go onto near kill one another before they allied, joined forces with the protos and encased all their clone troopers in terran marine armor to combat the zerg who would then become the tyranids and invade ultramar. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/292780-so-we-actually-know-when-the-two-legions-were-hunted-down/page/3/#findComment-3726797 Share on other sites More sharing options...
blackoption Posted June 23, 2014 Share Posted June 23, 2014 2 missing primarchs.........along time ago in a galaxy far far away............one became a sith lord the other a jedi, they would go onto near kill one another before they allied, joined forces with the protos and encased all their clone troopers in terran marine armor to combat the zerg who would then become the tyranids and invade ultramar. So... one of the Primarchs is Jim Raynor? And if you added a star trek and Dr. Who reference... that might have been on of the nerdiest synopsis's ever. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/292780-so-we-actually-know-when-the-two-legions-were-hunted-down/page/3/#findComment-3727209 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kol Saresk Posted June 23, 2014 Share Posted June 23, 2014 2 missing primarchs.........along time ago in a galaxy far far away............one became a sith lord the other a jedi, they would go onto near kill one another before they allied, joined forces with the protos and encased all their clone troopers in terran marine armor to combat the zerg who would then become the tyranids and invade ultramar. So... one of the Primarchs is Jim Raynor? And if you added a star trek and Dr. Who reference... that might have been on of the nerdiest synopsis's ever. The other is a Time Lord who travels around in an invisible TARDIS and calls himself "Q". Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/292780-so-we-actually-know-when-the-two-legions-were-hunted-down/page/3/#findComment-3727240 Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_son_of_Dorn Posted June 23, 2014 Share Posted June 23, 2014 Jim raynor and tycus, after jim became a grand master jedi and annihilated the zerg death star they lost their way and became the tyranids, cmon guys, you all know the necrons are the ancestral battle droids of the sith emperor before he married kerrigan and was defeated by the unsc enterprise which encounters horus's ship the vengeful spirit before erebus can steal the anamthe, 30k BASICS on a serious note no more trolling unless someone mentions vespid gas and Graham Mcneil........ Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/292780-so-we-actually-know-when-the-two-legions-were-hunted-down/page/3/#findComment-3727249 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kol Saresk Posted June 23, 2014 Share Posted June 23, 2014 Oh, you can throw HALO in but not Dr. Who or Firefly? I see your treachery. http://images6.fanpop.com/image/photos/36600000/Avatar-The-Legend-of-Korra-image-avatar-the-legend-of-korra-36690187-500-281.gif Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/292780-so-we-actually-know-when-the-two-legions-were-hunted-down/page/3/#findComment-3727254 Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_son_of_Dorn Posted June 23, 2014 Share Posted June 23, 2014 ah mastercheif, the 1st thunder warrior.....and does no one else realize the webway portal under the big E's throne is painted blue and has the word 'police public call box' printed on it? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/292780-so-we-actually-know-when-the-two-legions-were-hunted-down/page/3/#findComment-3727259 Share on other sites More sharing options...
blackoption Posted June 23, 2014 Share Posted June 23, 2014 Getting back on topic... The lost legions are a bit of paradox for GW and FW. Mysteries entice people, they want to know more. The mystery theoritical allows for player input and designs on what actually happened to the lost legions. But the Practical makes it a little more complicated. The more that is revealed (either through factual statements or deductive reasoning) both helps and hinders. It helps by filling information and allowing for grounded developments of these fan legions, but it also restricts those fan developments by equal measure. Normally I am skeptical of any lost legion development (in part because I have my own believes and imaginings of the lost legions). That being said, Athrawes work on his Thunder Legion is top notch if not Forge World quality. So what is the right answer to this mystery? I think GW's answer will be to give vague, difficult, and conflicting information because they (currently) want to keep the legions lost. I believe it would require a substantial leadership change for any substansive answer from GW on the lost legions. While the nerd in me hates this and wants the void of information fille (potentially by material like Athrawes or other quality writers) the artist in me enjoys the void of information as it allows freedom to create. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/292780-so-we-actually-know-when-the-two-legions-were-hunted-down/page/3/#findComment-3727425 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raulmichile Posted June 24, 2014 Share Posted June 24, 2014 Getting back on topic... I think GW's answer will be to give vague, difficult, and conflicting information because they (currently) want to keep the legions lost. I believe it would require a substantial leadership change for any substansive answer from GW on the lost legions. I would rather say: GW they have never had any intention of getting those two legions into life. They have always been intended as something to give a historical depth and sense of loss due to 10K years of turmoil Imperial history is; a snippet in Space Marines history so they can be looked as real ancient institutions, more ancient than Imperial records can remember, nothing more. Now that they are delving into the birth of the Imperium era they are forced to "include" these lost legions into the lore. That's it. My guess is that they will never give any further information regarding the lost legions (although I accept it would be cool...) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/292780-so-we-actually-know-when-the-two-legions-were-hunted-down/page/3/#findComment-3727942 Share on other sites More sharing options...
hopkins Posted June 24, 2014 Share Posted June 24, 2014 As has been mentioned by various BL people at seminars and events, there was an absolute, ironclad mandate after The First Heretic for no author to mention the Lost Legions again, at all, in any capacity. But count up the allusions to the Lost Legions in novels that came after it. As far as I know, I've made zero since then. For better or worse (perhaps worse, given how popular the mentions are) that's not exactly a track record shared by all. This cover was the biggest case of trolling so far http://img2.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20120809191033/warhammer40k/images/3/35/Large-sigillite.jpg Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/292780-so-we-actually-know-when-the-two-legions-were-hunted-down/page/3/#findComment-3728038 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kol Saresk Posted June 24, 2014 Share Posted June 24, 2014 It's a II and XI. Its not necessarily his fault if people interpret it as the II and XI Legions. :P Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/292780-so-we-actually-know-when-the-two-legions-were-hunted-down/page/3/#findComment-3728055 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kastor Krieg Posted June 24, 2014 Author Share Posted June 24, 2014 The greatest trolling is not that. It's the mask. The Sigillite was secretly a Harlequin. *dodges* Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/292780-so-we-actually-know-when-the-two-legions-were-hunted-down/page/3/#findComment-3728140 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Juan Juarez Posted June 24, 2014 Share Posted June 24, 2014 The greatest trolling is not that. It's the mask. The Sigillite was secretly a Harlequin. *dodges* Or to cross IPs, a Faceless Man. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/292780-so-we-actually-know-when-the-two-legions-were-hunted-down/page/3/#findComment-3728155 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kol Saresk Posted June 24, 2014 Share Posted June 24, 2014 The greatest trolling is not that. It's the mask. The Sigillite was secretly a Harlequin. *dodges* Or to cross IPs, a Faceless Man. Not really. There are those assassins who can change their faces in the 40K universe. And they've been around longer. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/292780-so-we-actually-know-when-the-two-legions-were-hunted-down/page/3/#findComment-3728269 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slips Posted June 24, 2014 Share Posted June 24, 2014 The greatest trolling is not that. It's the mask. The Sigillite was secretly a Harlequin. *dodges* Or to cross IPs, a Faceless Man. Not really. There are those assassins who can change their faces in the 40K universe. And they've been around longer. Callidus Assassins is the name you're looking for :D! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/292780-so-we-actually-know-when-the-two-legions-were-hunted-down/page/3/#findComment-3728281 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Juan Juarez Posted June 24, 2014 Share Posted June 24, 2014 The greatest trolling is not that. It's the mask. The Sigillite was secretly a Harlequin. *dodges* Or to cross IPs, a Faceless Man. Not really. There are those assassins who can change their faces in the 40K universe. And they've been around longer. Aye, except Nemesis put me that whole sctick. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/292780-so-we-actually-know-when-the-two-legions-were-hunted-down/page/3/#findComment-3728300 Share on other sites More sharing options...
depthcharge12 Posted June 24, 2014 Share Posted June 24, 2014 Were the two legions fully hunted down? Do we really know? I mean as in First heretic a few of the main characters are speculating that some of the lost legionaries are absorbed into the ultras, but that's just hearsay. I'm asking because I could make some 1st legion destroyers and have them with no background or record as they aren't really DAs but shamed lost legionaries condemned to a slow and painful death as destroyers Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/292780-so-we-actually-know-when-the-two-legions-were-hunted-down/page/3/#findComment-3728341 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adra'Melek Posted June 24, 2014 Share Posted June 24, 2014 Nothing happened to them. Therefore everything happened to them. They are Schrodinger's Legions Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/292780-so-we-actually-know-when-the-two-legions-were-hunted-down/page/3/#findComment-3728373 Share on other sites More sharing options...
tdemayo Posted June 24, 2014 Share Posted June 24, 2014 Getting back on topic... I think GW's answer will be to give vague, difficult, and conflicting information because they (currently) want to keep the legions lost. I believe it would require a substantial leadership change for any substansive answer from GW on the lost legions. I would rather say: GW they have never had any intention of getting those two legions into life. They have always been intended as something to give a historical depth and sense of loss due to 10K years of turmoil Imperial history is; a snippet in Space Marines history so they can be looked as real ancient institutions, more ancient than Imperial records can remember, nothing more. Now that they are delving into the birth of the Imperium era they are forced to "include" these lost legions into the lore. That's it. My guess is that they will never give any further information regarding the lost legions (although I accept it would be cool...) Yeah, I've always seen those two Legions as a hook, onto which players can hang whatever they want in their own, personal version of the 30/40k universe. I've known several players who took great pleasure in inventing their own Primarchs and Legions for those roles. Ever revealing too much about what "really" happened would be counter-productive. The BL was very clever in moving the two lost Legions back from the Heresy itself, to the even dimmer and mistier time that preceded it. It would be impossible to leave them mysterious if they were running around in the current 30k time line. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/292780-so-we-actually-know-when-the-two-legions-were-hunted-down/page/3/#findComment-3728454 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kastor Krieg Posted June 24, 2014 Author Share Posted June 24, 2014 Not all Legionnaires were hunted and killed, the ranks of the 13th have swollen greatly at that time. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/292780-so-we-actually-know-when-the-two-legions-were-hunted-down/page/3/#findComment-3728498 Share on other sites More sharing options...
blackoption Posted June 25, 2014 Share Posted June 25, 2014 Not all Legionnaires were hunted and killed, the ranks of the 13th have swollen greatly at that time. As much as I thought that quote from TFH was interesting, even the author has said (on these forum boards) it was nothing more substantial than gossip and rumor mongering. So while it is perhaps technically possible, I do believe it is beyond extremely unlikely. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/292780-so-we-actually-know-when-the-two-legions-were-hunted-down/page/3/#findComment-3728934 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kastor Krieg Posted June 25, 2014 Author Share Posted June 25, 2014 Not all Legionnaires were hunted and killed, the ranks of the 13th have swollen greatly at that time. As much as I thought that quote from TFH was interesting, even the author has said (on these forum boards) it was nothing more substantial than gossip and rumor mongering. So while it is perhaps technically possible, I do believe it is beyond extremely unlikely. Except SOMEHOW at Second Founding the reportedly beaten and battered 13th had the manpower to spawn all the freaking Chapters, eclipsing most other Legions. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/292780-so-we-actually-know-when-the-two-legions-were-hunted-down/page/3/#findComment-3729107 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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