Strata Posted June 24, 2014 Share Posted June 24, 2014 So I have a potentially interesting question I want to pose to my brothers and sisters of the heresy era. A the ought occured to me the other night, now I'm sure that we all have our primary legions that we see our service pledged to, which then gives us our unique rites and equipment. but these are legions where we all have specialists in the different fields of war. Now I am a proud son of Vulcan, but I look and see my brothers in yellow and see their breacher squads and hey.. I can do that too... But those extra perks from their RoW... Hmm. Now what I want to see is what you think about counts as, playing as in this example, salamanders, but playing them with legion astartes (imperial fists) rules. In my mind, I would see it played out following the rules of the fists, but not taking their special characters, nor their unique units/formations. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/292887-counts-as-in-the-heresy/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
hisdudeness Posted June 24, 2014 Share Posted June 24, 2014 There is no problem with this as long as your opponent knows before hand. You can even take the specific units and characters. Here is the reasoning. The Legion rules are just tactics...mind you, tactics that the are very good at. Now there is no reason (and even fluff support) for characters and units cross training with other legions. You can easily say that you army just returned to the Legion from one of these cross training missions and are still using the tactic. The specific units and characters are just loaned equipment units and a characters are an equivalent skilled character as the other legion named one. I do this all the time with my World eaters and Iron Warriors...I often run them all with WE legion rules no mater the armor color. I just say they are attached units that have learned to fight the way another legion does. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/292887-counts-as-in-the-heresy/#findComment-3727521 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ordo Machinum Posted June 24, 2014 Share Posted June 24, 2014 Myself, I couldn't do it. Not regularly. The heraldry is king! If they look like Salamanders, they should play like Salamanders. Imperial Fists are Imperial Fists. Etc. With respect, I cannot decide among the currently available Legions, so I'm doing robotic space maries courtesy of the Legio Cybernetica. They move, shoot, and die like space marines. They follow the Crusade Army list. They are the closest thing to a DIY heresy space marine legion that I am comfortable with. Am I tempted to make a robotic version of Legion specific squads, like the World Eaters or Raven Guard? Sure. But I won't. Umm, nope. I won't. Really, I'm not going to do it. Not me. No sir. Ciao! (So, which chapter pretends to have high ideals and then abandons them to suit their own needs? Maybe I should build THAT legion.) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/292887-counts-as-in-the-heresy/#findComment-3727523 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hyaenidae Posted June 24, 2014 Share Posted June 24, 2014 To quote a Yankee-lovin', womanizing Southerner... "Frankly, Scarlett, I don't give a damn." I care more about the idea leading to the decision to counts-as. "It's not a phased-plasma fusil, it's a miniature rapid-firing railgun for the dark age of technology." "It's not a World Eater, it a War Hound Praetor who refused the Nails and hid at the opposite side of the galaxy with his men to prevent them from becoming madmen; they consequently know how to conduct a 3 to 5 second rush while firing on the move, without losing their :cuss , screaming about blood, and trying to drop a gargantuan Squiggoth with a kitchen knife." Make up a cool story and tell me all about it while we're chuckin' dice, and I'm down with it, man. It's why the Heresy owns my heart. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/292887-counts-as-in-the-heresy/#findComment-3727619 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brofist Posted June 24, 2014 Share Posted June 24, 2014 There is no problem with this as long as your opponent knows before hand. You can even take the specific units and characters. Here is the reasoning. The Legion rules are just tactics...mind you, tactics that the are very good at. Now there is no reason (and even fluff support) for characters and units cross training with other legions. You can easily say that you army just returned to the Legion from one of these cross training missions and are still using the tactic. The specific units and characters are just loaned equipment units and a characters are an equivalent skilled character as the other legion named one. I do this all the time with my World eaters and Iron Warriors...I often run them all with WE legion rules no mater the armor color. I just say they are attached units that have learned to fight the way another legion does. Yeah, this right here. I play my IWs as Iron Hands sometimes, depending on the kind of army I'm running. Its fun to try new things and so long as your playing with a chill group of people, chances are they won't have a problem. Just don't get too crazy with your proxies. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/292887-counts-as-in-the-heresy/#findComment-3727641 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Strata Posted June 24, 2014 Author Share Posted June 24, 2014 Im glad to see that for the most part everyone seems to be in agreement. That's what i love about the 30k community, it seems to be more layed back and accepting of interesting, fluffy, or just additional ideas then the more stringent guide lines in 40k.. this is what this chapter does, not the other thing. So its perfectly legitiamte that the Salamanders would have a specialized deployment of hardened breacher squads, in my case then, The Dracos Arma, the shields of the dragon. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/292887-counts-as-in-the-heresy/#findComment-3728102 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daemon2027 Posted June 24, 2014 Share Posted June 24, 2014 I have been considering doing some count as Imperial Fists to go with my Iron Hands. Close combat breachers will look awesome in my shield wall. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/292887-counts-as-in-the-heresy/#findComment-3728170 Share on other sites More sharing options...
hisdudeness Posted June 24, 2014 Share Posted June 24, 2014 Don't forget the new Unbound rules...no need to limit yourself now. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/292887-counts-as-in-the-heresy/#findComment-3728558 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Memento Of Prospero Posted June 25, 2014 Share Posted June 25, 2014 Not that I am against flexibility, but it really grinds my gears when "counts as" becomes just a means to cut corners or rob models of their authenticity. Don't tell me your World Eaters models have an affinity for for the wisened ways of the Thousand Sons, because that's just not right. Or suddenly, Night Lords are all about Logistics and emulate ultramarines. Good old Salamander Terror squads. Vulkan would be proud of that from inside his prison/capsule/batcave/wherever he fancies hiding from his sons for the most dubious reasons these days ;) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/292887-counts-as-in-the-heresy/#findComment-3728789 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hyaenidae Posted June 25, 2014 Share Posted June 25, 2014 If someone has crafted a stunning story that even makes the most hardcore Salamander fan go "...I suddenly need to stalk innocent people in the dark", then that's all I need. Convince me you got a good reason to do what you do. That's all i ask. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/292887-counts-as-in-the-heresy/#findComment-3728795 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Memento Of Prospero Posted June 25, 2014 Share Posted June 25, 2014 If someone has crafted a stunning story that even makes the most hardcore Salamander fan go "...I suddenly need to stalk innocent people in the dark", then that's all I need. Convince me you got a good reason to do what you do. That's all i ask. Maybe they are make-believe terror squads and are hunting down innocent victims to save them! In plain sight of the Night Lords they gas their targets unconscious and claim to carefully drag the them away because they want the bodies unspoiled for the flesh flaying they will visit upon them later. Aboard their own flagships that is. While getting as far away as they can in the warp. Yeaaaaah! I CAN SEE IT NOW ;) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/292887-counts-as-in-the-heresy/#findComment-3728807 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ace Debonair Posted June 25, 2014 Share Posted June 25, 2014 (So, which chapter pretends to have high ideals and then abandons them to suit their own needs? Maybe I should build THAT legion.) That's one possible interpretation of the Post-Heresy Dark Angels, come to think of it. Maybe Scouring-era DA are the Legion for you? Back on topic, this is a question I've been wondering about, too. I'm likely dip a toe or two into the heresy-era waters sooner or later, so it's nice to know these things in advance in case I can't settle on a single legion! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/292887-counts-as-in-the-heresy/#findComment-3728845 Share on other sites More sharing options...
SW1 Posted June 25, 2014 Share Posted June 25, 2014 I'm just going to end up with a rainbow coloured collection of 30k models. Lol ... Once I get the dull grey wolves, black/metal IH's and black/dark grey RG out of the way. Planning on painting so much loyalist dark stuff is making painting up some bright traitor stuff very appealing. ;) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/292887-counts-as-in-the-heresy/#findComment-3728852 Share on other sites More sharing options...
High MarshalGR Posted July 20, 2014 Share Posted July 20, 2014 I'm all about the idea behind that as well. What are the motives, the propositions, the reasons for this "change of heart"? Indeed, "In war and in love everything is allowed", but what is the ulterior motive behind that? Give me that and I'm good to go! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/292887-counts-as-in-the-heresy/#findComment-3750154 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.