Displacer Field and leaving a unit

[Valkyrion]

The rulebook states that an IC can only leave a unit during his movement phase.

If an IC with a Displacer Field scatters out of coherency during his opponents shooting phase, what happens? 

Does he become a separate unit for purposes of the following assault phase? If so, which unit can the firing squad assault - the displaced IC or the unit he was part of?

[GreyCrow]

I would say that he is still within the unit, but that both him and/or the unit will have to move to be in unit coherency at the start of your movement phase.

[Gentlemanloser]

Yup.

 

The IC can't leave the unit, so the unit becomes out of coherency.

[Kristoff]

I would say that he is still within the unit, but that both him and/or the unit will have to move to be in unit coherency at the start of your movement phase.

Our you can just declare him as being removed from the unit for those purposes at the start of the Movement Phase, so the unit doesn't have to catch him or vice versa.

[Gentlemanloser]

Can you do that?

 

If you're out of coherency at the start of the turn (can't remember the relevant rules, sorry!), don't you *have* to move into coherency?

[GreyCrow]

I think that an IC can choose to leave a unit by moving out of unit coherency with them, so Kristoff would be right there I believe.

 

A side question, can models with displacer field mishap onto friendly models ? That would be a blast to witness :D

[Gentlemanloser]

Coherency;

 

 

 

in their next movement phase, the models in the unit must be moved in such a way that they restore unit coherency

 

ICs;

 

 

 

An Independent Character can leave a unit during the Movement Phase by moving out of unit coherency with it

 

You could rule this three ways;

 

1: The forced movement of the Coherency rules force the unit to move into coherency

2: The ICs Advanced Rules trump the Coherency Basic rules and you can move however you want (if you want the IC to leave the unit)

3: The IC has *already* left the unit, as they are out of Coherency in the Movement Phase

 

That being said, if the unit was falling back, locked in combat or gone to ground, the IC couldn't leave the unit.  And the unit would be out of coherency.

[Quozzo]

RAW its #1. An IC must leave a unit by moving out of unit coherency, ergo if the unit is not in coherency then the IC cannot leave. The unit must then try to move into coherency.

 

The question is: Can you move an IC into coherency and then back out in one turn?

[SvenONE]

I'd say just declare him out of the unit.  You're playing Dark Angels as it is and I doubt anyone would really give you that hard of a time.  If they are, just move back into coherency.  I believe the rule says if it's in the assault phase you would be making your end-of-phase pile-in move at the end.

[GreyCrow]

Well, you could move the remaining models of the unit first, then move the IC out of unit coherency ^^

[Gentlemanloser]

I'd probably go with a mix of 2 and 3 for RAW.

 

1 would be RAW if it wasn't a Basic and Advanced thing. :/

 

Edit: Unless there's an Advanced rule on forced movement...

[Kristoff]

RAW its #1. An IC must leave a unit by moving out of unit coherency, ergo if the unit is not in coherency then the IC cannot leave. The unit must then try to move into coherency.

 

The question is: Can you move an IC into coherency and then back out in one turn?

Not quit true. An IC can choose not to move, and the unit leaves him behind, and it's fine and legal. No where does it specifically state the IC alone must move.

 

A case for this is Transports. A Techmarine or Engineseer can be in a Transport with a unit, and the disembarks, but the tech doesn't.

 

And I should point out that by the Movement Phase, he has moved out of Coherency if he isn't in it by the end.

[Gentlemanloser]

That's an interesting point.  :)

 

The RAW is "by moving out of".  Not "being moved" or "end up out of".

 

But by RAW, taking the physical action to 'move'.

 

If you don't declare an IC as 'stationary' does it count as having 'moved', even if it doesn't move any distance?

 

The IC rules for disembarkation (page 81) are Advanced rules, just like the IC rules themselves.  Which takes precedence in a conflict?

 

Let's assume there is some method for an IC to embark on a Transport outside of the Movement Phase.

 

The Transport rules would rule the IC automatically joins the embarked unit.  The IC rules would prohibit this, as an IC is unable to join a unit outside of the Movement phase.

 

So which wins out?

[Quozzo]

 

RAW its #1. An IC must leave a unit by moving out of unit coherency, ergo if the unit is not in coherency then the IC cannot leave. The unit must then try to move into coherency.

 

The question is: Can you move an IC into coherency and then back out in one turn?

Not quit true. An IC can choose not to move, and the unit leaves him behind, and it's fine and legal. No where does it specifically state the IC alone must move.

 

A case for this is Transports. A Techmarine or Engineseer can be in a Transport with a unit, and the disembarks, but the tech doesn't.

 

And I should point out that by the Movement Phase, he has moved out of Coherency if he isn't in it by the end.

 

The unit can't leave the IC behind if the unit was not in cohesion as the only way an IC can leave is if it moves out of cohesion. I'm not suggesting it is the IC which must move, but that it must move out of cohesion, either by the squad moving or the IC. In any case it must move out of cohesion yet it is not in cohesion, ergo it must get into cohesion before it can move out of it.

 

Edit: You cannot leave a room, if you're not in the room. To to leave a room you must first enter the room.

[Gentlemanloser]

Thing is, this is also a valid interpretation (of the messy IC rules).

 

You leave a room by not being in the room.  Are you in the room?  No.  Then you've left it.

[Emperors Immortals]

Just take a step to the left, declare you've left unit.

 

Done.

 

Good thread btw.

[Gentlemanloser]

If you're forced to move into coherency, maybe you can't take that step to the left.  Or remain stationary.

 

Can you remain stationary as the IC, but have the unit move into coherency?  Or does every model in the out of coherency unit *have* to move?

[Valkyrion]

So, for the purposes of the assault phase, the displaced model could end up 6" away from his unit and end up being the only model in charge range. In the fight sub phase the rest of his unit is 6" away, so cannot fight, right? 

The models then pile in 3" but are still 3" away, so still cannot fight.

 

The combat is then resolved against the IC. The IC dies, but the rulebook gives no mention of a maximum distance for future wound allocation - only that 'the wound is allocated to the next closest enemy model locked in combat'. So wounds could overspill?

 

So you could have a situation where the IC dies and his unit are too far away to contribute anything at all to the fight?

 

I think I've got this right, or am I just overthinking it...?

[SvenONE]

Well we just have to establish this: An IC cannot join or leave a unit in any other phase other than the movement phase.  Simple as that.  If he/she ends up out of cohesion, this is no different than say a barrage attack that blows a unit out of cohesion.

 

When the movement phase rolls around, you can declare right then and there that he's leaving, you're allowed to do it says so right in the rules.

 

So, for the purposes of the assault phase, the displaced model could end up 6" away from his unit and end up being the only model in charge range. In the fight sub phase the rest of his unit is 6" away, so cannot fight, right? 

The models then pile in 3" but are still 3" away, so still cannot fight.

 

The combat is then resolved against the IC. The IC dies, but the rulebook gives no mention of a maximum distance for future wound allocation - only that 'the wound is allocated to the next closest enemy model locked in combat'. So wounds could overspill?

 

So you could have a situation where the IC dies and his unit are too far away to contribute anything at all to the fight?

 

I think I've got this right, or am I just overthinking it...?

 

Let me see if I have your example correct:

 

In your opponent's shooting phase, they shot, scored wounds which were allocated to your Displacer Field Bearing IC,who makes the save and thus scatters away from the unit it's joined to, and closer to the enemy shooting it (or some other enemy).  In your opponent's assault phase a unit, whichever is closest, assaults and your IC unit now 6" away from his squad (but is still for all intents and purposes part of the unit).  Is that right?  If so then your next line of thinking is correct, your units will be too far from the fight as 3" isn't enough to cover the distance.  There is no maximum distance either, Furioso Dreadnought against an Ork Boyz mob comes to mind, so you keep allocating wounds until the pool is gone.

 

Even though those units aren't in base contact, they are still part of the combat.  If the IC dies but the wounds don't spill over, everyone is going to End Of Combat Pile In 3" towards one another and most likely come into base contact.  

 

Combat is only going to end when no one is in base contact at the end of the assault phase.  As long as your initial charger made it into base contact, we got ourselves a rumble!