Forgefane/Trygon Fluff Query

[Nuclear Fridge]

I remember from the release of the plastic Trygon/Mawloc kit a piece of fluff in WD on how Forgefane - a fortress world ruled by the Iron Warriors - got overrun by the 'Nids. The leading Warsmith ended up vanishing down a Mawloc's gullet.

I can't remember if it was part of Hive Fleet Kraken behind the attack, or the name of the unlucky Warsmith. I need to know because I want to build the attack on Forgefane into the fluff for my small (but growing) Iron Warrior army. The minor-league "Warsmith" leading my force realised that Forgefane was doomed, and decided to get out while he could with what few forces he could scrape together...

[Clone]

All I could find: http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Forgefane#.U6wI8rGsXIU

[Leif Bearclaw]

Urgh, Forgefane, one of a plethora of bits of NId fluff I despise for its Sueishness.

 

I don't think the warsmith was named, but it was Hive Fleet Leviathan, not Kraken. Also, I believe the Nid dex has the world falling in a day, so would there have been enough time for anyone to get out? Unless the did a runner before the spores landed, but what kind of Iron Warrior doesn't trust in his fortifications?

[Nuclear Fridge]

All I could find: http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Forgefane#.U6wI8rGsXIU

Thanks, that's exactly what I was looking for!

 

I mean, I can remember the part of the story that deals with how the different outposts and fortresses were linked by underground supply tunnels... until the 'Nids started breaking into the tunnels. My fluff involves my Chaos Lord leading a munitions convoy overland to the central keep... just in time to watch the 'Nids overrunning the place. That's when he decides to get the **** out of there.

[Nuclear Fridge]

Urgh, Forgefane, one of a plethora of bits of NId fluff I despise for its Sueishness.

 

I don't think the warsmith was named, but it was Hive Fleet Leviathan, not Kraken. Also, I believe the Nid dex has the world falling in a day, so would there have been enough time for anyone to get out? Unless the did a runner before the spores landed, but what kind of Iron Warrior doesn't trust in his fortifications?

 

Heh! You're forgetting the cardinal rule of White Dwarf there. Doesn't matter what sort of newly-released model you're touting in this issue, it's got to kick major backside!

 

And my would-be Warsmith is outside the fortifications when he realises things are untenable. He can't fight his way past the hordes of gribbly 'Nids to get back inside a fortress.

[Leif Bearclaw]

Heh! You're forgetting the cardinal rule of White Dwarf there. Doesn't matter what sort of newly-released model you're touting in this issue, it's got to kick major backside!

There beating major face, then there's this kind of BS. It's somewhat compounded for me because I don't really like a lot of the Nid fluff, becuase it's too riddled with just this kind of . But my real objection to Forgefane isn't that the Nids win, its that they destroy the place in a day. So they just waltz through an Iron Warrior fortress world (one of the gnarliest propositions to assault in 40k, just ask the Imperial Fists) like its no big thing, while a couple of companies of loyalists and a pair of guard regiments hold and beat Leviathan at Tarsis Ultra. Just like the Tau dex has 30 Riptides conquering an entire Hive World, its the worst kind of scaling failure. The fluff treats entire planets as analogous to cities too often imo. I'd also like a bit more internal consistency.

And pigs may fly .

[daboarder]

Its the new blood. They can't write without having a pre existing story

[Nuclear Fridge]

...And pigs may fly .

I hear that! For my own part, the death of Forgefane is going to be a long, drawn-out, horrible affair. Rivers of gore and lakes of ruptured Nid bio-ichor. None of this WD "over before you know it FTW coolness!!"

Its the new blood. They can't write without having a pre existing story

And a story that a five-year-old would be ashamed of writing, at that.

[insidion]

Heh! You're forgetting the cardinal rule of White Dwarf there. Doesn't matter what sort of newly-released model you're touting in this issue, it's got to kick major backside!

There beating major face, then there's this kind of BS. It's somewhat compounded for me because I don't really like a lot of the Nid fluff, becuase it's too riddled with just this kind of . But my real objection to Forgefane isn't that the Nids win, its that they destroy the place in a day. So they just waltz through an Iron Warrior fortress world (one of the gnarliest propositions to assault in 40k, just ask the Imperial Fists) like its no big thing, while a couple of companies of loyalists and a pair of guard regiments hold and beat Leviathan at Tarsis Ultra. Just like the Tau dex has 30 Riptides conquering an entire Hive World, its the worst kind of scaling failure. The fluff treats entire planets as analogous to cities too often imo. I'd also like a bit more internal consistency.

And pigs may fly .

I also play Nids, and i have to agree that Nid fluff is really bad. Not only is it completely inconsistent, more than half of the fluff in the dex is about nids loosing and being pounded into the ground. They are either extremely overpowered in fluff, or suck really hard.

[Leif Bearclaw]

...And pigs may fly .

I hear that! For my own part, the death of Forgefane is going to be a long, drawn-out, horrible affair. Rivers of gore and lakes of ruptured Nid bio-ichor. None of this WD "over before you know it FTW coolness!!"

Which is what should have happened in the original story. Two factions whose forte is attrition warfare, fighting over prepared positions. Rattenkrieg at its finest .

[incinerator950]

It should have ended with nuclear assault. IW fortifications are not only brutal, they're usually set up with marines ready to take out the planet with them.

[the jeske]

nid fluff stoped making sense when they suddenly got the ablity to warp travel and the "eat a planet" time went down from 4-6 weeks [of just eating] to 2-3 days [including assault on planet]. Old fluff for nids was realy awesome , with all the sub races . There was even a special gene breed that went , lets say offline the hive mind, and was fleeing nid fleets. They were human looking and even tried[the fools] to warn humans about what is incoming.

 

But as much people may dislike what nids do in fluff , one has to remember that aside of nids , only necrons are faction that won its galaxy [with the nid difference being that nids cleaned theirs and then cleaned a few more].

[incinerator950]

Yes, and Nid and cron fluff sucks now. Galaxy cleaning isn't so threatening now.

 

Zoats are what you're referencing iirc. I'm partial to genestealer cults, but GW goes to lengths to ignore those.

[Nuclear Fridge]

I'm partial to genestealer cults, but GW goes to lengths to ignore those.

 

Which might not be so bad... if they're ignoring something, it means they won't go and **** it up with contradictory and badly-written fluff.

[daboarder]

Heh! You're forgetting the cardinal rule of White Dwarf there. Doesn't matter what sort of newly-released model you're touting in this issue, it's got to kick major backside!

There beating major face, then there's this kind of BS. It's somewhat compounded for me because I don't really like a lot of the Nid fluff, becuase it's too riddled with just this kind of . But my real objection to Forgefane isn't that the Nids win, its that they destroy the place in a day. So they just waltz through an Iron Warrior fortress world (one of the gnarliest propositions to assault in 40k, just ask the Imperial Fists) like its no big thing, while a couple of companies of loyalists and a pair of guard regiments hold and beat Leviathan at Tarsis Ultra. Just like the Tau dex has 30 Riptides conquering an entire Hive World, its the worst kind of scaling failure. The fluff treats entire planets as analogous to cities too often imo. I'd also like a bit more internal consistency.

And pigs may fly .

I also play Nids, and i have to agree that Nid fluff is really bad. Not only is it completely inconsistent, more than half of the fluff in the dex is about nids loosing and being pounded into the ground. They are either extremely overpowered in fluff, or suck really hard.

Thats because they let the little pissant write the codex twice in a row.

I mean what kind of stupid fool has a physics degree, and yet still seems to think its plausible for a winged creature to fly in a vacuum.....stupid little prick

[Nuclear Fridge]

...I mean what kind of stupid fool has a physics degree, and yet still seems to think its plausible for a winged creature to fly in a vacuum.....stupid little prick

The same sort of fool who no doubt thinks that spacecraft battles would have enormous dolby-quality sound effects booming across the intervening void!

I dare say he'll get to write the next iteration of the 'Nid codex as well. Brace yourself for 'exciting' fluff that'll probably have three Space Marines - armed only with combat knives and an empty missile launcher - wipe out a Hive Fleet assault force within five minutes of their landing...

[CoffeeGrunt]

 

Just like the Tau dex has 30 Riptides conquering an entire Hive World, its the worst kind of scaling failure. The fluff treats entire planets as analogous to cities too often imo. I'd also like a bit more internal consistency.

 

If it makes you feel better, Damocles ret-conned it so that immediately after winning on Agrellan, the Tau are lured to the home world of THE NEW KNIGHTS BUY ONE NOW golly ONE JUST CUT OPEN A RIPTIDE, SWEEEEEET!

 

So Shadowsun, Tau's master of ambush warfare, is lead into an ambush. "Let's attack that single citadel surrounded by trees, with a strange fog our sensors can't pierce outside the front gate. Oh no, it was hiding an army! Curse your sudden but inevitable betrayal!" This immediately after the fio'tak fist of a couple of dozen 'Tides smashes the main fortress of Agrellan after a siege lasting weeks, because leading with the Riptides would have been stupid.

 

Oh yeah, Razorsharks shooting down Thunderhawks, because Razorsharks are definitely a better air-to-air fighter than even a Storm Talon. Also Shadowsun leading the Khan into a trap, almost killing him, then Corax deploying a sudden rush of 50 Land Speeders to save him and losing most of them. The Khan cutting open Shadowsun's chest was the interesting part, though, but obviously wasn't continued to see if she dies after her bodyguards basically dogpile him because that's a £24.99 miniature son.

 

*Slinks back into pit of nerd rage.*

 

GW's fluff is hella stupid a lot of the time.

[Leif Bearclaw]

Just like the Tau dex has 30 Riptides conquering an entire Hive World, its the worst kind of scaling failure. The fluff treats entire planets as analogous to cities too often imo. I'd also like a bit more internal consistency.

If it makes you feel better, Damocles ret-conned it so that immediately after winning on Agrellan, the Tau are lured to the home world of THE NEW KNIGHTS BUY ONE NOW golly ONE JUST CUT OPEN A RIPTIDE, SWEEEEEET!

So Shadowsun, Tau's master of ambush warfare, is lead into an ambush. "Let's attack that single citadel surrounded by trees, with a strange fog our sensors can't pierce outside the front gate. Oh no, it was hiding an army! Curse your sudden but inevitable betrayal!" This immediately after the fio'tak fist of a couple of dozen 'Tides smashes the main fortress of Agrellan after a siege lasting weeks, because leading with the Riptides would have been stupid.

Oh yeah, Razorsharks shooting down Thunderhawks, because Razorsharks are definitely a better air-to-air fighter than even a Storm Talon. Also Shadowsun leading the Khan into a trap, almost killing him, then Corax deploying a sudden rush of 50 Land Speeders to save him and losing most of them. The Khan cutting open Shadowsun's chest was the interesting part, though, but obviously wasn't continued to see if she dies after her bodyguards basically dogpile him because that's a £24.99 miniature son.

*Slinks back into pit of nerd rage.*

GW's fluff is hella stupid a lot of the time.

Oh God, so who did Gw let win Damolces? Because that's my biggest beef with the Tau, they're the only faction that never seems to lose, even their 'defeats actually aren't, because reasons'. No Tau dex, the Zeist campaign wasn't a diversion, you lost, stop retconning your defeats, take your lumps like every other army in the setting.

Also, Razorsharks, really? They're bloody ground attack planes, Barracudas I'd accept, but Razorsharks?

Apologies for the tangent.

[CoffeeGrunt]

Well, the Zeist campaign still resulted in massive losses of Tau life, as well as the first Damocles Crusade and Hive Fleet Gorgon, both of which tore apart of swathe of colonies up to Dal'yth. They won in the end by not dying out, but ultimately still lost a lot. There's also various smaller stories where they lose, like a water world where they fight the Space Wolves.

 

No no, Gentleman. The Razoshark is our Air Superiority Fighter™! Six S7 shots at BS3, yay!

 

The Tau won Agrellan still, but couldn't take Voltoris because of stupidity. They've left it off there, and the book ends with the Imperium deciding to finally muster the army necessary to wipe the Tau from the galaxy. I can see this being pulled away by other threats, though, and the Empire itself will be a tough nut to crack anyway. The First Damocles Crusade was a complete surprise, but now the Tau know Imperial tactics and have even reverse-engineered the Codex Astartes, not to mention that they know the units the Imperium will field. It's a pity GW will never move that fluff forward, I'd like to see what comes of it.

[Leif Bearclaw]

Well, the Zeist campaign still resulted in massive losses of Tau life, as well as the first Damocles Crusade and Hive Fleet Gorgon, both of which tore apart of swathe of colonies up to Dal'yth. They won in the end by not dying out, but ultimately still lost a lot. There's also various smaller stories where they lose, like a water world where they fight the Space Wolves.

 

No no, Gentleman. The Razoshark is our Air Superiority Fighter™! Six S7 shots at BS3, yay!

 

The Tau won Agrellan still, but couldn't take Voltoris because of stupidity. They've left it off there, and the book ends with the Imperium deciding to finally muster the army necessary to wipe the Tau from the galaxy. I can see this being pulled away by other threats, though, and the Empire itself will be a tough nut to crack anyway. The First Damocles Crusade was a complete surprise, but now the Tau know Imperial tactics and have even reverse-engineered the Codex Astartes, not to mention that they know the units the Imperium will field. It's a pity GW will never move that fluff forward, I'd like to see what comes of it.

And yet the current Tau book turns Zeist into 'lol while the Marines were elsewhere Shadowsun rolls up another couple of sectors' (another beef, the Tau empire is barley the size of a single sector on a good day, but Vetock seemed to not know this). Gorgon doesn't even slow their expansion down, while HIve Fleets leave the Imperium licking its wounds for years. Same for that big Ork invasion in the new book. Trie about the Wolves under the ocean, and that did make me smile, but that really is the exception in my experience.

 

Plus, yes, the Tau know Imperial tactics, but the reverse is also true, so there's no significant advantage there. Admittedly, I'm going on BL fluff, where the Imperium has somewhat competent commanders and general staff. Whereas codex fluff too often boils down to 'send in the next wave', 'not one step back' and 'I will kill it with my sword, then everything shall be fine'.

 

Reverse-engineered the Codex Astartes? Wut.

 

God I hate the Tau fluff, in almost every nook there's more mary sue.

 

At least the Nids, for all their 'no really we're the real apocalypse, I'm super serious', take their lumps ,like everyone else.

[CoffeeGrunt]

Dude, there's tonnes of stories where the Tau get messed up. Look up the Dark Eldar one, it's a bit hilarious in their own way. Not to mention every Codex has someone punching a Tau in it. Personally I dislike some of the Space Marine fluff for the same reason. Every Chapter has a Mary Sue of some description, some more than others. 

 

The Tau fight with blow and counter-blow, they adapt their tactics and thus are hard to predict. This actually reflects pretty well on the tabletop, too. Gorgon devastated the Empire and took centuries to rebuild from, and the War of Confederation against the Orks forced the entire Empire into full-scale total war, which is the only reason it's still standing after Damocles. The real clincher is whether they ever discover real FTL travel and lengthen their reach, otherwise they're in a doomed corner that'll likely get swept by the Nids.

 

Farsight reverse-engineers the Codex Astartes to a degree, because when every one of your soldiers rigidly adheres to a book, it doesn't take much to interpret the patterns and routines.

[Leif Bearclaw]

Farsight reverse-engineers the Codex Astartes to a degree, because when every one of your soldiers rigidly adheres to a book, it doesn't take much to interpret the patterns and routines.

Cue Legatus coming in with 'that's not what the Codex is etc.' .

True I'd forgotten the DE one. I might be somewhat skewed in my view over how the current book dealt with Zeist (and Taros, the FW version is a small bush war rather than the major conflict alluded to in the Tau book), which I've already covered my diastase for.

[CoffeeGrunt]

To the Tau, it was a big victory, though. That's the amusing part.

 

The Farsight fluff was written by Phil Kelly, btw, so blame him for reverse-engineered Codices. :P

[Leif Bearclaw]

To the Tau, it was a big victory, though. That's the amusing part.

Oh yes, and if things like Longstrike's fluff (he's the tank ace right?) we clearly written from a Tau pov (akin to the histories of the Elves in their 6th ed fantasy books, marvelously biased and great fluff pieces for the race's character), then that'd be fine.

But the current codex writing style is far more sterile and 'factual', which then causes irritation in me whne it flat out contradicts other fluff, as none of Longstrike's deeds happened in the Taros campaign. The Tau specifically and successfully avoided the kind of slugging match vs Imperial armour Longstrike apparently won, and the Warhound went down to a heavy railgun from the AX-10, not a hammerhead. Thing is, they could've made up a different war to make Longstrike famous, instead they on an established incident, that FW had already covered far better than they ever could.

[CoffeeGrunt]

Indeed. Personally I have a few issues with the Tau fluff, but eh, doesn't matter too much when I'm playing with the toy dollies on the field.