Forgefane/Trygon Fluff Query

[incinerator950]

Who was the weeaboo who wrote the Taudex?

[CoffeeGrunt]

Jeremy Vetock. Also did the Dark Angels Codex. 

[Clone]

I actually quite like the tau fluff. If changed from a small empire that could impact the galaxy in a minimal way to one that actually proves to be dangerous. They don't have the limitless manpower of the imperium but they aren't stuck to religious dogma like the imperium. I get that codex astartes is supposed to be this loving document of tactical awesome but not every chapter will see a 10000 year old book the same way. It's part of the imperials history that innovation is losing out to dogma so I don't think it's too much if a leap for a tactical genius to start seeing patterns in imperial tactics (am I opening up a can of worms here I wonder).

 

Yeah sure there are the odd bits of fluff that are there to sell the latest model but hey, it's not like no other codex does that. Anyway, riptides are awesome. Fact. I love that model and when I see that image of the Knight cutting one in half I have to think; why didn't the riptide use his jet pack to fly away... But I suppose the best way to make one model look awesome is to kill another awesome model. That's GW marketing strategy right there.

[CoffeeGrunt]

Riptides are ballin', they're what got me into the hobby, actually. (Dark Crusade was my only real experience before then.) I didn't buy a 'Tide until about six months after my army started, and painted it last to try and get it looking as sweet as I could. Without support they're fairly tame, and against armour they're actually really mediocre now.

[Leif Bearclaw]

I actually quite like the tau fluff. If changed from a small empire that could impact the galaxy in a minimal way to one that actually proves to be dangerous. They don't have the limitless manpower of the imperium but they aren't stuck to religious dogma like the imperium. I get that codex astartes is supposed to be this loving document of tactical awesome but not every chapter will see a 10000 year old book the same way. It's part of the imperials history that innovation is losing out to dogma so I don't think it's too much if a leap for a tactical genius to start seeing patterns in imperial tactics (am I opening up a can of worms here I wonder).

Hey, I'm no fan of the Codex, but having the Tau reverse engineer in within a couple of centuries of first contact would support the view that it's not worth the paper its printed on, which isn't meant to be GW's official line. It also begs the question of why only the Tau have done this. Why not Eldar (who are at least as smart as the Tau, probably smarter) or Chaos also done this?

 

But likewise, the Imperials should be able to see patterns in Tau tactics, because for all their flexibilty, Tau have their own doctrines and technical limitations on their forces, and there will be patterns to exploit. Especially as the Imperium can call on commanders who have been fighting wars for longer than the Tau have been an interstellar empire. Essentially a lot of my beef with the Tau fluff is that it tends to have the Imperium at its most stupid and incompetent, often to the 'how have they lasted 10,000 years?' level. Which is poor form imo.

[Clone]

Who's to say the eldar and chaos haven't reverse engineered the codex? I'm sure kranon didn't forget the teachings of the codex when the crimson sabres turned traitor. I agree with you in that more enemies of the imperium should have figured some of the codex if it really is that rigidly adhered to by some chapters. It's just a cool piece of fluff for farsight that I think fits well with the whole dynamic, constantly evolving thing the tau have going on.

 

The thing with the imperium is that it is a dogmatic empire with a lack of initiative. That is clear and it has only survived so far because of the sheer scale of the imperium and the bright stars that are capable of invention and can think outside the box. Imperial tactics are tried and tested and do work but the culture of the imperium is such that innovation can largely be dangerous for the individual.

 

Tau make the most of what they have and if they are lacking in certain areas they will adapt. That's why the tau even survived against Hive Fleet Gorgon. I wouldn't like to think what Gorgon would to do the imperium once the tyranids had adapted to las weapons for example.

 

Imperials aren't all stupid or incompetent but tau are just more able to think outside the box. From a tau commanders point of view they may seem that way. The tau have a manifest destiny complex and they have been bred to believe they are better than everyone else, whether it is or not is something farsight himself has pondered. Also farsight isn't the average tau commander. He's the brightest and best commander of the empire. He is the tau version of solar macharius or marneus calgar, I'd expect him to perform some great feat beyond the level of the majority of the tau commanders.

 

Each codex tries to make out that each race is the best ever and everyone else pales in comparison. I remember reading about calgar punching out an avatar for throne sake! I wish the authors took on a more balanced view but hey, I get to feel better when buying the latest model if the fluff is ridiculously awesome. Haven't read tr ork codex yet but I'm sure there's some new awesome fluff behind that gorkanaught.

 

p.s. Having said all this one of my favourite pieces of fluff in the tau codex was when a drop assault ends in disaster when the tau simply field plasma rifles on all their suits. It was nice to see a space marine assault fail horribly for once instead winning against all odds. And that has nothing to do with the codex astartes and everything to do with the fact that space marines just didn't expect plasma everywhere.

[CoffeeGrunt]

Yeah, I quite liked parts of the Farsight fluff. The short story of the Apothecary Farsight met was interesting, and showed the honorable conduct the Tau and Space Marines both share. It also showed an element of his insight, he was able to tell the Marines were beyond medical aid, but the Apothecary was harvesting something from them that was incredibly important. Hence no Apothecaries were attacked by the Tau, only the combatants.

 

Tau is interesting because it allows a viewpoint more alike to the modern day, and how they perceive stuff like Chaos is an interesting alternate take. They don't have tactical doctrines because they're continually discovering new enemies that require different tactics to bring down efficiently. It's arguable that the only reason Gorgon seemed so adaptable, is because rather than Sending In The Next Wave, the Tau immediately changed weapons and attacked again. Then Gorgon adapted, the Tau adapted back, and each raced against the other to evolve.

 

Space Marine's shock assault tactics worked incredibly well until Dal'yth, where the Tau simply noted that once they'd dropped in and killed stuff, there was just a whole load of Infantry with no Armour support. Fast moving Plasma Suits soon cut through the ranks without much impunity. Same with the waves of Guardsmen and Tanks, they learned the best ways to deal with them, and while the Tau adapted to come out on top, the Imperium kept trying the same predictable tactics.

 

The Eldar probably don't see the point in trying to understand the foolish doctrines of the Mon'keigh. Chaos are too maddened to care. Orks like Ghazghull are noted to be able to predict what Imperial forces will do, and string them along accordingly. 

[minigun762]

Too much talk about filthy Xenos.

 

Let's refocus please.

[Clone]

Talking about xenos can help us understand how to defeat them! Let them revel in the reverse engineering of the pitiful codex! We shall defeat them with minds as old as the imperium itself!

 

Death to the false... Errr.... Xenos?

[minigun762]

On topic, I really thought this battle was a missed opportunity to have a true slug out. Something like this could have gone on for years in true siege fashion.

[CoffeeGrunt]

Wasn't this a thread about the fluff of a Xeno army?

 

I can't find an awful lot other than Iron Warriors having a convenient fortress exactly designed for Trygons to nom.

[Leif Bearclaw]

On topic, I really thought this battle was a missed opportunity to have a true slug out. Something like this could have gone on for years in true siege fashion.

This could be said about too much GW fluff, missed opportunity....

[incinerator950]

Wasn't this a thread about the fluff of a Xeno army?

 

I can't find an awful lot other than Iron Warriors having a convenient fortress exactly designed for Trygons to nom.

It was about Forgefane so the op could use the background for his Warband, then it got off topic to how GWs fluff department is getting worse, and from that associated with just how much of a weeaboo the Tau writer was.

[Clone]

Maybe his warband has fought against tau and farsight and riptides and and and....

 

Now we can talk about the tau codex again right? Right?

 

 

No fair :(

[Nuclear Fridge]

Wow. I've really created a lumbering monstrosity here, haven't I?

My Iron Warriors warband is small - so far. I needed a reason for that that didn't revisit the threadbare trope of "inevitable betrayal/treachery attempted by trusted lieutenant to big Chaos boss... but the big boss just exiles the upstart forever instead of simply destroying him".

So, the query about Forgefane. My 'lord' - he hasn't earned the title of Warsmith yet - was directed to head a convoy from one of the supply bastions to the central keep on Forgefane, under orders from Kolvax himself. The 'Nids tore apart the central keep just as he got to within line-of-sight of the whole mess.

Realising that he could not go forward (without committing suicide), and he couldn't back (for the same reason), he decided to take his convoy to an evac point and call in the dropships. Lots of equipment and weaponry had to be abandoned in the process. Many of the IWs under his command got badly wounded, and now sport various bionics.

I've blended in a few bits of loyalist SM gear (legs, packs, helmets) to reflect the idea that these IWs have had to patch up their wargear with armour salvaged from SMs they've fought since escaping Forgefane. I'm going to add in a squad of World Eaters for close-quarters hack-and-slash; their leader has been recruited for the chance to chop off heads and spill blood. It's going to look rather patchwork... which is what I want.