TompiQ Posted June 26, 2014 Share Posted June 26, 2014 Greetings, brother astartes! I originally posted this query in the 30k forums, but the answers there have not yet helped me make this decision, and thus I beseech your aid! A glaive clocks in at 650 points with armoured ceramite, which is just 100 points shy of a Warhound titan of any variety. Which of these weapons would you say be preferable, if added to a force consisting of 2 Typhons, a Medusa squadron of 3, 2 Whirlwind Scorpii, 3 tactical blobs with apothecaries as well as 2 Lightning Fighters? This is in expanding a 3000pts force into at least 4k apocalypse, as the typhons are my standard LoW. What would be your pick, and what inherent dis-/advantages can you spot inbetween them? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/293005-glaive-vs-the-warhound/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daddywarcrimes Posted June 26, 2014 Share Posted June 26, 2014 I'd take the Glaive. Admittedly, the primary reason for doing so would be to keep down the number of non-Astartes units in the army. Then again, I'd also have done with Fire Raptors over Lightning Fighters. Bear in mind that the Glaive is also a much shorter vehicle, making it harder to target compared to the towering Warhound. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/293005-glaive-vs-the-warhound/#findComment-3730251 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moonstalker Posted June 26, 2014 Share Posted June 26, 2014 Warhound has stronger weapon options. You can either vary them depending on what you want it to do, or just go all-out powerhouse with two double-barreled turbolasers. In a head to head, that's an option that will quite reliably kill the Glaive in one round, while the Glaive is still bringing the Warhounds Void Shields down. Speaking of, the void shields are a double-edged sword. For one they can come back up. Regenerating HP of any sort is nice. For two, they are not HP that you can lose multiples of to explodes results. Any pen is only a single void shield. The downside is that they are only AV12 so they are easier to take down in the first place. The height is also a plus and a minus. The Warhound will be easier to see, harder to get cover saves for, etc, but it will also have a more commanding view of the battlefield and be able to more effectively employ its guns. The Glaive? It looks cool (so does the Warhound). It's a better superheavy killer than the Fellblade, because its main gun is like a guaranteed explodes result each turn, and it can't miss. It has less flexibility and lining up really good shots with the main gun seems like it could be more troublesome than just putting down a huge template. Having armored ceramite is good. Not having a WS is actually a weird bonus in this situation. Either superheavy is most likely getting hit on 3+ in melee, but assuming the Glaive survives (which it might, having rear AV12) then it can just move away on its turn. The Warhound is more likely to live through its melee experience with front AV14, but it will be locked in the assault and not shooting. Biggest difference? Real world price. The Warhound is like twice the cost of the Glaive yet only around 100 points more expensive. If you want the most bang for your physical buck, go Glaive. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/293005-glaive-vs-the-warhound/#findComment-3730370 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Noserenda Posted June 26, 2014 Share Posted June 26, 2014 First up Warhound is always going to be killier, Titans are just underpriced...In more depth you look to have built a very static gunline which does not work very well with the Glaive which ideally wants to be enfilading the enemy to be truly monstrous and doing that unsupported wont end well at all! Personally id prefer the Glaive for looks and coolness ;) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/293005-glaive-vs-the-warhound/#findComment-3730384 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kor'Vesh Posted June 27, 2014 Share Posted June 27, 2014 So kitwulfen said that the glaive is great against superheavies - I'm by no means saying he's wrong, but I've always been a bit unsure how the glaive's gun works vs vehicles. Doesn't the haywire rule stop it actually making any armour penetration rolls? Surely that makes it a bit more rubbish versus armour... I hope I'm totally wrong by the way, because it is a stunning tank that I want it to be as awesome on the table as it should be... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/293005-glaive-vs-the-warhound/#findComment-3731386 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moonstalker Posted June 27, 2014 Share Posted June 27, 2014 That's correct, but against a superheavy it will get D3+1 haywire hits, which is like a guaranteed explodes result every turn. Yes, there is still the formality of rolling your 2+ to glance/6+ to pen for haywire, but you are very reliably removing about 3 HP a turn off a superheavy and you literally cannot miss - only be out of range. A Fellblade can potentially scatter off target (low chance, though, with good BS and twin link), potentially fail to pen (unlikely, given S9 Armourbane Primary Weapon), but then it has to get that explodes result. Only a 1 in 6 chance to knock off that 1+d3 HP with the 7th ed damage chart. The Glaive does that every turn without even trying. It's not quite as impressive against lesser vehicles, but that's why you have 8 lascannons strapped to the sides. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/293005-glaive-vs-the-warhound/#findComment-3731411 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marshal Reinhard Posted June 27, 2014 Share Posted June 27, 2014 Simple math says that the Volkite Carronade will on average produce 3 haywire hits, which given the haywire rules and the 7th ed penetration chart means we can ignore penetrating hits alltogether and 2.5 HP's are taken off on average each turn. This is just slightly lower than under the 6th ed chart, where an explodes result was still possible, but the difference is neglible. For comparison the Falchion deals, on average just under 3 HP's a turn, since the hit to D-weaponry. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/293005-glaive-vs-the-warhound/#findComment-3731481 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kor'Vesh Posted June 28, 2014 Share Posted June 28, 2014 Cool. Thanks for the explanation, and sorry for my own poor ability to run the numbers! What are people's experiences with the glaive? How easy is it to get off some decent shots that won't fry your own guys? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/293005-glaive-vs-the-warhound/#findComment-3731771 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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