Emperor's Furor Posted June 26, 2014 Share Posted June 26, 2014 I'm reading the part of the Master of the Legion entry in the most recent mini copy of the Legion Crusade Army List and I'm wonder whether it's a must to have a praetor for a rite of war "The use of one of the Riters of War is always optional as they impose limitations on your army as well as offering other abilities and new configurations of units on the Force Organisation Chart." I'm trying to get a 1k force of word bearers with some daemon allies for a game this weekend as I've only just started the army but atm it seems I need like three HQs, them being the praetor for master of the legion, a diabolist as it's required for the rite and a chaplain as it's reqired by word bearers in general. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/293015-rites-of-war-only-with-master-of-legion/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vardus Posted June 26, 2014 Share Posted June 26, 2014 Not having the mini copy, I can't be sure of the context, but the context is inferred by the text section that it appears in book one and also has the same optional text. I can't really see them changing needing a character with Master of the Legion to take a Rite of War. As for the number of character required under the Word Bearer Rite of War, three is the number: Praetor for RoW, Centurion or Chaplain consul per the Word Bearer special rules and a Diabolist per the RoW. Now the conjecture comes as to whether Erebus counts as both a Praetor and a Diabolist, yes he is a Chaplain, but the Legion Astartes Word Bearer rules state that you must take the extra character anyway! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/293015-rites-of-war-only-with-master-of-legion/#findComment-3730488 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Emperor's Furor Posted June 26, 2014 Author Share Posted June 26, 2014 Not having the mini copy, I can't be sure of the context, but the context is inferred by the text section that it appears in book one and also has the same optional text. I can't really see them changing needing a character with Master of the Legion to take a Rite of War. As for the number of character required under the Word Bearer Rite of War, three is the number: Praetor for RoW, Centurion or Chaplain consul per the Word Bearer special rules and a Diabolist per the RoW. Now the conjecture comes as to whether Erebus counts as both a Praetor and a Diabolist, yes he is a Chaplain, but the Legion Astartes Word Bearer rules state that you must take the extra character anyway! I read an email from someone who contacted forgeworld and asked how both Erebus and Kor Phaeron count, and they replied that Erebus counts as both a Diabolist and a Chaplain whilst Kor Phaeron only counts as a Chaplain. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/293015-rites-of-war-only-with-master-of-legion/#findComment-3730491 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vardus Posted June 26, 2014 Share Posted June 26, 2014 Not having the mini copy, I can't be sure of the context, but the context is inferred by the text section that it appears in book one and also has the same optional text. I can't really see them changing needing a character with Master of the Legion to take a Rite of War. As for the number of character required under the Word Bearer Rite of War, three is the number: Praetor for RoW, Centurion or Chaplain consul per the Word Bearer special rules and a Diabolist per the RoW. Now the conjecture comes as to whether Erebus counts as both a Praetor and a Diabolist, yes he is a Chaplain, but the Legion Astartes Word Bearer rules state that you must take the extra character anyway! I read an email from someone who contacted forgeworld and asked how both Erebus and Kor Phaeron count, and they replied that Erebus counts as both a Diabolist and a Chaplain whilst Kor Phaeron only counts as a Chaplain. The question is now does Erebus fulfill all three requirements of the RoW! Some how I think not, so you could get Master of the Legion and Diabolist or Chaplain and need a Chaplain/Centurion or Diabolist, cutting the required number of characters to two, but if you don't want a named character then three seems to be the number. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/293015-rites-of-war-only-with-master-of-legion/#findComment-3730499 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Emperor's Furor Posted June 26, 2014 Author Share Posted June 26, 2014 Erebus lets you take Daemons as allies anyway even without the Rite of War. So I could just take Erebus and I guess an additional chaplain and have the allies without the rite of war. I only have a chaplain and a diabolist model though atm. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/293015-rites-of-war-only-with-master-of-legion/#findComment-3730500 Share on other sites More sharing options...
SillyDreadnought Posted June 26, 2014 Share Posted June 26, 2014 You could make your Praetor a Diabolist y'know. It's an option for all WB HQ's. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/293015-rites-of-war-only-with-master-of-legion/#findComment-3730502 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vardus Posted June 26, 2014 Share Posted June 26, 2014 You could make your Praetor a Diabolist y'know. It's an option for all WB HQ's. Where is this rule? I can't find it on page 254 or 255 of Massacre. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/293015-rites-of-war-only-with-master-of-legion/#findComment-3730507 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Emperor's Furor Posted June 26, 2014 Author Share Posted June 26, 2014 You could make your Praetor a Diabolist y'know. It's an option for all WB HQ's. It's a Consul option, which means it's like upgrading a centurion to chaplain or champion etc. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/293015-rites-of-war-only-with-master-of-legion/#findComment-3730512 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Emperor's Furor Posted June 26, 2014 Author Share Posted June 26, 2014 So I made this list, is it legal then after jumping through the hoops with the characters? HQ Erebus - 195 Centurion - Pair of Lightning Claws / Artificer Armour - 85 Herald of Khorne / Locus of Fury / Greater Reward - 95 Elites Cataphractii Terminator Squad - 2 Power Swords / 3 Power Fists / Reaper Autocannon - 205 Troops Legion Tactical Squad (x10) - Power Weapon - 150 Legion Tactical Squad (x10) - Power Weapon - 150 Bloodletters (x10) - 100 - 1000 Also since Daemons ain't my primary detachment do I ignore the warp storm table? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/293015-rites-of-war-only-with-master-of-legion/#findComment-3730527 Share on other sites More sharing options...
SillyDreadnought Posted June 26, 2014 Share Posted June 26, 2014 You could make your Praetor a Diabolist y'know. It's an option for all WB HQ's. Where is this rule? I can't find it on page 254 or 255 of Massacre. Ah, darn. Yeah, I misread it. My bad! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/293015-rites-of-war-only-with-master-of-legion/#findComment-3730550 Share on other sites More sharing options...
hisdudeness Posted June 26, 2014 Share Posted June 26, 2014 To answer the OP question...the RoW are part of the Master of the Legion rule. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/293015-rites-of-war-only-with-master-of-legion/#findComment-3730625 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vardus Posted June 27, 2014 Share Posted June 27, 2014 You could make your Praetor a Diabolist y'know. It's an option for all WB HQ's. Where is this rule? I can't find it on page 254 or 255 of Massacre. Ah, darn. Yeah, I misread it. My bad! Hey, no problem, I thought I might have missed something! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/293015-rites-of-war-only-with-master-of-legion/#findComment-3730796 Share on other sites More sharing options...
depthcharge12 Posted June 27, 2014 Share Posted June 27, 2014 You can choose Erebus to count for your master of the legion and diabolist requirements, but then you need to take a chaplain/centurion in addition. So: Erebus Chaplain/centurion Or Praetor Diabolist Centurion/chaplain Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/293015-rites-of-war-only-with-master-of-legion/#findComment-3731086 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sully ad Bellum Posted February 9, 2015 Share Posted February 9, 2015 I'm reading the part of the Master of the Legion entry in the most recent mini copy of the Legion Crusade Army List and I'm wonder whether it's a must to have a praetor for a rite of war So, what is the answer to this particular question? If a legion centurion is your warlord, does he have the Master of the Legion special rule? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/293015-rites-of-war-only-with-master-of-legion/#findComment-3944960 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Father Mehman Posted February 9, 2015 Share Posted February 9, 2015 Master of the Legion refers to Praetors and special characters with the Warlord trait. This is found in the new, red Legiones Astartes rulebook on the entry for Praetors. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/293015-rites-of-war-only-with-master-of-legion/#findComment-3944968 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sully ad Bellum Posted February 9, 2015 Share Posted February 9, 2015 Also in that book: "If the army's Warlord [(see BRB)], they have the Master of the Legion special rule." A centurion can be the army's warlord, so wouldn't that mean they have the Master of the Legion special rule? In the preceding paragraph, however, it states that "a model with [the Master of the Legion] special rule may also include a Command squad as a retinue." Additionally, the Command squad's Retinue special rule states that it "may only be chosen as a retinue for a Legion Praetor or Legion special character with the Warlord special rule...." Finally, the special rules for Praetor include "Master of the Legion," whereas the special rules for centurion do not. I didn't think a centurion could be a "Master of the Legion," but the language cited at the top made me wonder. Perhaps just poor drafting? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/293015-rites-of-war-only-with-master-of-legion/#findComment-3945009 Share on other sites More sharing options...
redmapa Posted February 9, 2015 Share Posted February 9, 2015 Also in that book: "If the army's Warlord [(see BRB)], they have the Master of the Legion special rule." A centurion can be the army's warlord, so wouldn't that mean they have the Master of the Legion special rule? In the preceding paragraph, however, it states that "a model with [the Master of the Legion] special rule may also include a Command squad as a retinue." Additionally, the Command squad's Retinue special rule states that it "may only be chosen as a retinue for a Legion Praetor or Legion special character with the Warlord special rule...." Finally, the special rules for Praetor include "Master of the Legion," whereas the special rules for centurion do not. I didn't think a centurion could be a "Master of the Legion," but the language cited at the top made me wonder. Perhaps just poor drafting? Poor wording, the only centurion that has Master of the Legion is the new Consul-Delegatus and thats his entire purpose, to be a cheaper version of a praetor while also being able to choose RoWs, if any other Centurion could use RoWs then the existence of a Delegatus is pointless. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/293015-rites-of-war-only-with-master-of-legion/#findComment-3945018 Share on other sites More sharing options...
LongGone Posted February 9, 2015 Share Posted February 9, 2015 Unless something changed from Massacre to the little red books, you have to take a Praetor level character to get Master of the Legion and thereby get access to the Rites of War. A centurion or consul doesn't cut it. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/293015-rites-of-war-only-with-master-of-legion/#findComment-3945019 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hesh Kadesh Posted February 9, 2015 Share Posted February 9, 2015 It's unclear. Very poorly written, as per. It refers to models with the rule, then states that if they're the Warlord, then they have the rule. It's unclear whether it means that all Warlords have the Master of the Legion rule, or it has the pointless rule that only Warlords with the Master of the Legion gain the special rule. In my suggested rewrite for the LACAL, I've wrote this for Master of the Legion (note that I've updated the AoD rules for 7th edition, so detachments (as well as made some suggestions for Legion specific Warlord tables, limited to D3 (Primarchs obviously getting all 3). The full panoply... blah blah... When deciding the tactics of the Legion's warfighting ability A Legiones Astartes Crusade Army List Detachment may take no more than a single model with the Master of the Legion special rule per full 1000 points in that detachment. Such a model must always be the Warlord for the army (if there are multiple models with this rule, the owning player may decide which model becomes the Warlord). Such models may take a single unit with the Retinue special rule as part of the same Force Organization slot. Note that the Master of the Legion is still an Independent Character, and may deploy as normal for an Independent Character.In addition, Masters of the Legion, when rolling for their Trait may choose to roll an extra dice when deciding their Warlord trait on their chosen traits chart and choose which trait to apply; alternatively, they may select a single trait from their own Legion Warlord Table.Finally, each detachment containing one or more models with Master of the Legion special rule may apply a Rite of War to it. Each Rite of War is typically a modification to the number of Force Organization Slots to a particular detachment, but also has some other rules and limitations (including new Special rules, changes to battlefield role, etc) which apply only to the detachment it is taken for, unless specified. Provided you meet all the limitations and prerequisites of the Rite of War you select, this is chosen before deployment, but after determining Warlord Traits. In addition, changes to Jealous Command (Only one model with this rule per Army. Precludes other Masters of the Legion from the same faction, and must be Warlord; even over other Masters of the Legion) and Primarch (requires 2000pts of their faction in the army, (weak Corax avoids that) models of their faction lose Masters of the Legion and all models in the army lose Jealous Command. Must be Warlord, gets to select which Warlord trait in addition to knowing all of those on their Legion specific; Fulgrim gets 2 choices on Strategic Table). Must be Warlord, above all but other Primarchs; can choose between Primarchs (except Angron who forces an opposed Ld test, to see if he becomes Warlord if not already, or pass it off to another Primarch if already Warlord). Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/293015-rites-of-war-only-with-master-of-legion/#findComment-3945048 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Praefectus Invictus Posted February 9, 2015 Share Posted February 9, 2015 technically now centurions can take ROW's with those two new FW event only characters, and the new Introduced Centurion rules and the new ROW's that come with them. Might have misread that though. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/293015-rites-of-war-only-with-master-of-legion/#findComment-3945119 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slips Posted February 9, 2015 Share Posted February 9, 2015 technically now centurions can take ROW's with those two new FW event only characters, and the new Introduced Centurion rules and the new ROW's that come with them. Might have misread that though. Only the Centurion-Delegatus can take a RoW and the RoW he comes with is unique to him alone. He is very much the sole exception to the rule. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/293015-rites-of-war-only-with-master-of-legion/#findComment-3945120 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Excessus Posted February 9, 2015 Share Posted February 9, 2015 technically now centurions can take ROW's with those two new FW event only characters, and the new Introduced Centurion rules and the new ROW's that come with them. Might have misread that though. Only one of them, it's a 25 point consul upgrade and gives access to a unique RoW along with the rest. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/293015-rites-of-war-only-with-master-of-legion/#findComment-3945122 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Praefectus Invictus Posted February 9, 2015 Share Posted February 9, 2015 technically now centurions can take ROW's with those two new FW event only characters, and the new Introduced Centurion rules and the new ROW's that come with them. Might have misread that though. Only the Centurion-Delegatus can take a RoW and the RoW he comes with is unique to him alone. He is very much the sole exception to the rule. technically now centurions can take ROW's with those two new FW event only characters, and the new Introduced Centurion rules and the new ROW's that come with them. Might have misread that though. Only one of them, it's a 25 point consul upgrade and gives access to a unique RoW along with all the rest of them. Yeah, I knew there was a centurion/s who could take one, just didn't know which one (read: to tired to go scrawling back through the 32 pages of heresy weekender stuff) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/293015-rites-of-war-only-with-master-of-legion/#findComment-3945124 Share on other sites More sharing options...
LongGone Posted February 9, 2015 Share Posted February 9, 2015 Warlord isnt actually a rule; its a model you nominate to act as your armies 'Warlord' - the caveat being that the model selected be a Character. So a Centurion being nominated Warlord does not confer a 'Warlord' USR. Master of The Legion is also a Specific Special Rule in and of itself and is not conferred to anyone - it is listed in their profile if they have it. If they don't, there is no way for them to get it. Case and point, the new Delegatus Consul from the FW Weekender that just happened: It has a special rule that permits it to select a RoW as if it had 'Master Of The Legion' but does not actually have the rule on it profile. There is no real ambiguity here. Read page 124 of the BRB. Because Slip said it best. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/293015-rites-of-war-only-with-master-of-legion/#findComment-3945150 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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