Montuhotep Posted July 1, 2014 Share Posted July 1, 2014 Straightforward enough question, really, as someone who just likes Dreadnoughts in general and nutty Chaos ones in particular (despite the fact that both versions suck these days) is the Dataslate worth getting? And since I have a Kindle, which one should I be getting the Ibook or the Ebook? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teetengee Posted July 1, 2014 Share Posted July 1, 2014 Without the dataslate I just ran a very successful walker rush the other day. Don't discount them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quixus Posted July 1, 2014 Share Posted July 1, 2014 And since I have a Kindle, which one should I be getting the Ibook or the Ebook?Can the Kindle read iBooks? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
incinerator950 Posted July 1, 2014 Share Posted July 1, 2014 Without the dataslate I just ran a very successful walker rush the other day. Don't discount them. Do tell, I have three sitting on my desk and I want to use then. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teetengee Posted July 1, 2014 Share Posted July 1, 2014 So I ran unbound (Ik boo hiss, but it was fluffy). I had soul grinder of slaanesh with warp gaze, full cc defiler with dirge, TH/Power Scourge Dread with Havoc and dirge, Baledrake, and two maulers with lasher tendrils. I was allied with some necrons (including lightning dude and the doom whatevers that shoot lines of death). The enemy was guard (two basilisk, a punisher, some chimeras, a vet squad, two vendettas, mostly mech). It might have been because he didn't have a lot of anti tank, but I just ran forward and he couldn't deal with the target saturation (it helped that I kept rolling 6s on the maulerfiends invulns). He quit turn 3/4 ish so I don't know if the vendettas would have turned the tide, although we discovered with some quick rolls that it would have meant bye bye heldrake. Anyways, I just ran the two maulers up the field and sent the defiler and soul grinder up the right flank towards a cowardly basilisk. Meanwhile the helbrute went towards an objective(maelstrom) and sat there with the havoc taking potshots and daring anyone to try to secure the objective. The opponent was admittedly light on antitank (or at least not heavy in it) and could not figure out how to target prioritize. Maulers ate chimeras/ took objectives early while everything went forward. Defiler barely even took any shots at it, blasting away with impunity. I think the trick was that the double maulers in center field are a huge threat that gives the rest of the army some much needed breathing room. The key is saturation of function and armour value. I would definitely run at least two maulers if you are running helbrutes. That way you should guarantee you close with the enemy with something. EDIT: Misread some things, army list illegal, as has been pointed out below. I got defiler options mixed up with helbrute options. I may try legal walker rush in the future and if successful, I will let you know how they fair. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
minionboy Posted July 2, 2014 Share Posted July 2, 2014 I quite like the Helbrute dataslates, as with all dataslates though, some are good, some are awful. The Mayhem pack is probably the most playable and gives your brutes a ton of special rules, namely, IWND, Deepstrike and they always roll on the rage table (which is good if you ask me!). The Hellcult is okay if you're using cultists and don't mind throwing in a brute, he'll make them fearless and get a 3+ cover save from their bodies, win-win. The last formation is the Murderpack, probably the least useful, basically a squad of 5 brutes that get some bonuses if the leader brute dies, I don't find it worth the 500+ point price tag. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sception Posted July 2, 2014 Share Posted July 2, 2014 I'm not as convinced of the mayhem pack. Unaided deep strike is the bane of my existance, far too easy to end up outside of the half-range of your multimelta, or land on impassible terrain, or another model, or within an inch of the enemy, and find your brute potentially mishapping itself out of the game entirely. In an APO game where you can grab the non-scattering deep strike strategem things might be different, though even then you're probably better off taking some of the daemon assault-on-arrival formations. On the other hand, I think the Murderpack might warrant another looksee in 7th, now that they can actually claim an objective if left to themselves, while putting out a mess of lascannon and missile shots. With the new damage chart they should be rather hard to move - 5 destroyed results or 15 hull points is an awful lot of investment when the enemy only gets to claim a single kill point for their effort. The cost is still probably too much, but at the moment, based on approximately zero 7th edition play testing, I'd still rate them a bit above the mayhem pack by virtue of being overpriced, but at least not self-defeating. The helcult gets my nod for best of the bunch. If playing cultists anyway, why not make them fearless, and for less points cost than typhus, plus get a brute with a respectable cover save out of the arrangement? Well, I suppose the reason why not would be that the cultists lose objective secured.... so yeah, none of the brute formations are perfect, imo, but I'd still consider the cult to be the one most worth a look for those who might be interested. That it also has the lowest buy in cost (if you have a DV box, you've got a helcult) certainly doesn't hurt it's standing in my eyes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dallas Drake Posted July 2, 2014 Share Posted July 2, 2014 Cultists not having OS is why I dropped the Helcult slate from my list. Silly oversight by GW when Skyblight got it. Yes, I am bitter because I really like(d) that option. Deep Strike is still terrible. Rear armour on a dread is still paper. Melta still does what it's supposed to. Murderpack is an uber investment, I'm never going to put that much ££ in GWs pocket for a one off formation. I would just google the document and read up before buying it, you'll be able to tell if it's something you want to use or not & could end up saving yourself the price of a few pints. Dallas Edit: Slaanesh Soul Grinders on the other hand :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xenith Posted July 2, 2014 Share Posted July 2, 2014 Without the dataslate I just ran a very successful walker rush the other day. Don't discount them. So I ran unbound (Ik boo hiss, but it was fluffy). I had soul grinder of slaanesh with warp gaze, full cc defiler with dirge, TH/Power Scourge Dread with Havoc and dirge, Baledrake, and two maulers with lasher tendrils. I think that claiming dreadnoughts are good, because your walker rush list is good (which features only one) is a bit far fetched, especially when equipping them with a havoc launcher and dirge caster, which you cannot legally do. The dataslate is good. The hellcult makes 2 units of cultists fearless for free, and can provide a 3+ cover save for a dread, which is excellent. The deepstrike pack looks run, although I havent had a chance to use it yet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jimmy Carmine Posted July 2, 2014 Share Posted July 2, 2014 And since I have a Kindle, which one should I be getting the Ibook or the Ebook?Can the Kindle read iBooks? iBooks is iPad and iPhone only, so if you are wanting to read it on your kindle, or any other sort of ebook reader you'll be wanting the ebook version. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sception Posted July 2, 2014 Share Posted July 2, 2014 I think that claiming dreadnoughts are good, because your walker rush list is good (which features only one) is a bit far fetched, especially when equipping them with a havoc launcher and dirge caster, which you cannot legally do. This. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teetengee Posted July 2, 2014 Share Posted July 2, 2014 On rereading I see you are entirely correct. Sorry for getting peoples hopes up and sorry for my mistake. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sception Posted July 2, 2014 Share Posted July 2, 2014 Is no problem. They used to be options for dreads, after all, many may still have conversions including such. Heck, iirc the havoc launcher started as a vehicle upgrade for chaos dreadnoughts, so it's kind of sad that it isn't even an option for them anymore. Kind of like raptors & hit & run, iirc that special rule was introduced with raptors in the 3.0 book, back when raptors were one of two new sort of undivided cult units (oblits being the other). Since then raptors have become basically just chaos assault marines. It's a shame, though we do have warp talons now. Hopefully the next iteration of the talons' rules will do them a bit better justice, as their current rules, well... melee specialist deep strikers isn't a great starting point, being a unit that costs like terminators but dies like basic CSMs to small fire doesn't help, and being a fragile, melee-only spcialist unit with no assault grenades and no utility against walkers or 2+ save infantry is kind of a nail in the coffin. Both the new helbrute and the warp talons are conceptually interesting and boast fantastic models, so there's reasonable hope that they'll catch the eyes of some future codex designer and see some new life breathed into them. And in the mean time, with the game as random as it is in 7th edition, I'll take great models over effective rules most days anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Icarsun Posted July 2, 2014 Share Posted July 2, 2014 Out of curiousity, anyone thought of using the Helfist Character Helbrute as a Warlord? It'd be a terrible option but your opponents reaction to having it would be great. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quixus Posted July 2, 2014 Share Posted July 2, 2014 Out of curiousity, anyone thought of using the Helfist Character Helbrute as a Warlord? It'd be a terrible option but your opponents reaction to having it would be great. Any more reaction than fielding Björn as a warlord? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xenith Posted July 2, 2014 Share Posted July 2, 2014 Echoing Malisteen's comments. It's easy to miss the hellbrute thing, I thought they could take those options initially: I think hellbrutes would be decent if they could take vehicle options: Plasma, ML and havoc would be a good option. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sheesh Mode Posted July 4, 2014 Share Posted July 4, 2014 My thoughts: Helcult is a good support option: cheap. A large cultist mob and a brute will draw large amounts of fire away from your army while an MSU can sit in the back and hold a rear field objective. Fearless cultists have many applications. Helfist Murder Pack: Another distraction star/deathstar. I expect it to scare my opponents with 5 helbrutes running across the field; it will scare your enemy into moving around it and focusing their fire on it, use that to your advantage or buy two Murder packs and support them with Mauler Fiends and Warpsmiths, with cultists to hold objectives. Mayhem Pack: Extremely situational. The potential to deepstrike 3 brutes with multimeltas or Double-fists and Flamers cannot be understated, however, much like the deepstriking Landraiders used by Blood Angels it is more likely to misshap and cause you headaches instead of your opponent. Out of the 3 it could do the most damage or the least. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
incinerator950 Posted July 4, 2014 Share Posted July 4, 2014 I'm inclined to use the mayhem pack. Thinking of getting thunder hammers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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