Baulder Posted July 2, 2014 Share Posted July 2, 2014 Been thinking for some time it may be fun to investing in a few fortifications my SWs army. This could add another angle to the play style and give my mates and me the option to play out some of the stronghold assault missions. I know Valerian has already given good run down of where fortifications can be of benefit to the wolves but I wanted to ask to see if anyone has any other ideas/experience regarding building these into your army. My initial thoughts are that this could offer a nice way to protect LF units and create good central firebase. With the change in deployment rules you can set up your fortification with you units in prime fire lane real estate. Plus, and I'm thinking of the imperial bunker here, I think 4 models can fire from the fire point so if you deploy a LF 4ML unit in there they should be pretty safe for a couple of turns. At the moment I just use the aegis defence line, but tbh, I think that doesn't really help marines as much as I would like. More often than not I'm taking armour saves so for the 50pts I'm not seeing a great deal of benefit. 25pts more and all of a sudden they are in a stationary tank that offers quite a bit more protection. It also gives you an opportunity to put up some more terrain to give your vehicles that cover save first turn if they are deployed behind it. Anyone else regularly use fortifications and found any to work well with their space wolves army? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/293239-sw-and-fortifications/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
CatSmasher Posted July 2, 2014 Share Posted July 2, 2014 I like the defense line for a couple of reasons. First and foremost, I find it a bit strange to bring a building to a game and second, I like the aegis for my LF. It makes me feel comfortable about any terrain set up, and I like the boosted cover potential from going to ground. This isn't the worst penalty if you have a RP with divination, or if you're already shooting at flying stuff, which is very likely in my meta (Demons, Heldrakes, AM fliers are super common) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/293239-sw-and-fortifications/#findComment-3735295 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sturm Moonwolf Posted July 2, 2014 Share Posted July 2, 2014 Well as an Apocalypse guy I love my mini-Aett. Shred, furious charge, stubborn amongst other things you get from an imperial Strongpoint. I've used it only in sections in smaller games, to random effectiveness. Small games i just like the Bunker. My long fang pack can all shoot out of it, it's cheap, and for a few points you can add Ammo Store so as to re-roll all your 1's, not to mention the additional protection granted (looking at you vector striking Helldrakes) http://i814.photobucket.com/albums/zz69/JimKearney/Space%20Wolf%20Army/10516867_687461294624869_5459590459244691167_n.jpg http://i814.photobucket.com/albums/zz69/JimKearney/Space%20Wolf%20Army/10421356_687461274624871_5422769891272862874_n.jpg Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/293239-sw-and-fortifications/#findComment-3735357 Share on other sites More sharing options...
CatSmasher Posted July 2, 2014 Share Posted July 2, 2014 Re rolling ones and cover is basically what I pay 125 pts to get out of a rune priest. I like your suggestion Sturm Also, that board looks amazing. I would love to play on something like that Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/293239-sw-and-fortifications/#findComment-3735468 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sturm Moonwolf Posted July 2, 2014 Share Posted July 2, 2014 Re rolling ones and cover is basically what I pay 125 pts to get out of a rune priest. I like your suggestion Sturm Also, that board looks amazing. I would love to play on something like that The board is the local GW store. I just brought my Imperial Strongpoint Formation to lay out there for the photo op, lol. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/293239-sw-and-fortifications/#findComment-3735509 Share on other sites More sharing options...
CatSmasher Posted July 2, 2014 Share Posted July 2, 2014 That is what I was referring too, your terrain on the board looks awesome and inviting. I really want a bunker now too. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/293239-sw-and-fortifications/#findComment-3735522 Share on other sites More sharing options...
logun Posted July 2, 2014 Share Posted July 2, 2014 silly question probably but where would i find all the rules for fortifications now the the 7th ed BRB doesn't include them. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/293239-sw-and-fortifications/#findComment-3735532 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sturm Moonwolf Posted July 2, 2014 Share Posted July 2, 2014 Stronghold Assault for the basics. Apocalypse and various Warzone books have entire formations of fortification rules. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/293239-sw-and-fortifications/#findComment-3735536 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nrthstar Posted July 3, 2014 Share Posted July 3, 2014 Anyone rock a firestorm redoubt? I was looking at that or the aegis for more options for anti air, but all that might not be needed soon anyways. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/293239-sw-and-fortifications/#findComment-3735611 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sturm Moonwolf Posted July 3, 2014 Share Posted July 3, 2014 Yeah, I've used the Firestorm on it's own. It's ok, just a bit too pricey for smaller scaled games imo. That, and it must shoot at the closest flyer or fmc, so it's fairly easy to decoy the flyer you don't want to get shot down. For the point cost, just take a flyer of your own. Also, with the intercept rules change it's even worse for it's point value when it has no fliers to shoot at and is forced to shoot ground targets. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/293239-sw-and-fortifications/#findComment-3735650 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baulder Posted July 3, 2014 Author Share Posted July 3, 2014 Am I right in thinking the firestorm is BS2 autofire or can it be manned like a normal icarus gun emplacement? I guess as you've touched on here the most important role that fortifications play for the wolves is as solid anti flyer. That said we do have other options and (particularly in maelstrom missions, they have have 6 objectives) every unit is able to hold objectives the chance of getting skyfire on another unit (e.g. razorback/dread/LFs) actually isn't so improbable. I really like the idea of using a bunker with the ammo dump for the long fangs, always forget that there are other options like this instead of the gun emplacement. Plus I think with the newer rules you can take multiple fortifications in 1 slot if they are deployed as a base, though at lower points this can still be a bit of a sink? I'd be interested to hear how you get on with the weapons battery Sturn (also, great looking scenery it would make for an epic stronghold assault narrative game). Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/293239-sw-and-fortifications/#findComment-3735733 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sturm Moonwolf Posted July 3, 2014 Share Posted July 3, 2014 Well for me personally, if I'm playing a 2k game, it's only going to be the Bunker tooled up a little with the Ammo Store, and possibly a void shield and a comms relay on it if I'm using my Storm Wing detachment and drop pods. I've found that combo to be pretty decent, but I'm still in the 7th edition experimenting mode. As for the Firestorm, yes it is only BS2 and it is automated, it can not be manned. You can pay to give it a Magos Machine Spirit however which ups it's BS by 1. I just find it overpriced in my opinion, and not worth about 4 times the cost of a single bunker. I also don't find the Vengeance batteries effective in smaller games either. Once again, they are automated and only BS2, and they don't get the option of the Magos Machine Spirit upgrade. I use mine with Battlecannons instead of the Punisher cannon for this reason, and they are purely for my Apocalypse games as part of the formation at this time. The only formation for fortifications that I am aware of at the moment that is not Apocalypse only is the Imperial Defense Network in Stronghold Assault, which consists of at least 1 each of a bunker, defense line, and defense emplacement, with options to add a few more bunkers and such. But with that, the point costs can jump up quickly. But in Apocalypse, all these things come together well and generally are worth their weight just due to target saturation alone. Especially the Firestorm with it's 96" range. One other neat Bunker trick I like that I should add: Buy an Icarus lascannon for it and place it on top. It counts as emplaced and can be fired by the Long Fang pack leader from inside, if you don't split fire, giving you 6 lascannon shots from a las fang pack...albeit the icarus will be snap firing if shooting at ground targets, or go for the quad gun and get the twin linked. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/293239-sw-and-fortifications/#findComment-3735741 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Squark Posted July 3, 2014 Share Posted July 3, 2014 Right, so... My 2 cents. Fluff-wise, Marines travel fast and light, so anything beyond an Aegis probably isn't something they took with them. Which doesn't mean you can't take them, of course. Our primary job is defending imperial worlds, so the Wolves will inevitably end up in places where they can make use, although if you ally in some guardsmen, it'll make that much more sense. Of the four "classic formations" (The ones that are usually grandfathered in even if your metagame otherwise bans Stronghold Assault), All of them have some role, although the Aegis has taken a bit of a hit with the skyfire changes. -Aegis defense lines are cheap sources of cover that you can place after you know exactly where you want your army to be (as opposed to ruins, which are placed before you know your table edge). The guns aren't bad, but they're mostly useful against flyers. Comms relays are an interesting choice if you're doing a reserves heavy army, though. They're also the Emperor's gift to guardsmen and scouts, if you've allied in some (Yes, we have scouts. Do they have objective secured? Do they have inexpensive sniper rifles? Nope.) -Bastions are 75 point immobile land raiders that also have ruins on top of them. If you've got a land raider and refuse to take another one for some reason (seriously, though, take 2. Actually, that applies to just about anything in the game except for HQs and fortifications), the bastion is the cheap alternative. -Skyshield defense platforms are best for artillery parking lots or reserves shenanigans. They're not bad, per se, just not something the Wolves get much use out of. -The Fortress of redemption is 4 immobile land raiders for the price of one. It also brings a S8 barrage weapon (And barrage is what Preciscion shots wish they were). Save for Apoc or cheese-fests. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/293239-sw-and-fortifications/#findComment-3736060 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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