minigun762 Posted July 2, 2014 Share Posted July 2, 2014 I've always liked IG heavy armor and with the option for a tank HQ, it might be tempting to add a little allied detachment. That said, I like cheap units so I was thinking of going with a non-unique commander over the more expensive Pask. Is that a reasonable idea or is Pask just too good? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/293242-bog-standard-tank-commander-instead-of-pask/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Ravel Posted July 2, 2014 Share Posted July 2, 2014 I don't like the normal tank commander since he basicly force you to have a squadron, all that for a BS4 (that cost you 30 pts). Pask on the other hand can be a machine of destruction. I see no reason (apart from fluff list building, etc.) to not take Pask. The normal commander is useless (if not that it can be harder to kill than a normal CCS). If you only want a small detachment and pay less than Pask, then look at IA for the Armoured Battlegroup. You can have tank commander far more efficient than the one from Astra Militarum. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/293242-bog-standard-tank-commander-instead-of-pask/#findComment-3735158 Share on other sites More sharing options...
WarriorFish Posted July 2, 2014 Share Posted July 2, 2014 Pask is a machine of death, very good but he of course comes at a price. If saving points is what you're after than a normal commander will do an ok job. As David says Pask is so much better so if you can find the extra points for him as he's worth it. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/293242-bog-standard-tank-commander-instead-of-pask/#findComment-3735162 Share on other sites More sharing options...
CoffeeGrunt Posted July 2, 2014 Share Posted July 2, 2014 The Tank Orders and handy, but not game-changing IMO. Other than that, 30pts for BS4 isn't really worth it. Pask brings so much to the table for his points cost, that I'd really just go the extra mile and take him. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/293242-bog-standard-tank-commander-instead-of-pask/#findComment-3735190 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seahawk Posted July 2, 2014 Share Posted July 2, 2014 Pask isn't so good when he's not the Warlord though. Without Preferred Enemy for the squadron, a good chunk of those 40 points goes to waste. Having used him in both capacities, I'd definitely say that if your tank commander isn't the warlord, then don't spring for Pask. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/293242-bog-standard-tank-commander-instead-of-pask/#findComment-3735194 Share on other sites More sharing options...
hendrik Posted July 2, 2014 Share Posted July 2, 2014 those 30 pts also free up another heavy support slot though,which in most cases will be higher contested for than HQ slots. all in all it's a good deal for only 30 pts Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/293242-bog-standard-tank-commander-instead-of-pask/#findComment-3735211 Share on other sites More sharing options...
minigun762 Posted July 2, 2014 Author Share Posted July 2, 2014 That's disappointing to hear. Does it make any difference what LR variant I was thinking of using? Personally I really like the Eradicator because the little snub nose cannon looks cool and anything that ignores cover is fun. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/293242-bog-standard-tank-commander-instead-of-pask/#findComment-3735326 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Juan Juarez Posted July 2, 2014 Share Posted July 2, 2014 Pask works best in the Vanquisher... Creating the Paskquisher. At least, that's what all the cool kids say Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/293242-bog-standard-tank-commander-instead-of-pask/#findComment-3735332 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frater Cornelius Posted July 2, 2014 Share Posted July 2, 2014 Pask works best in the Vanquisher... Creating the Paskquisher. At least, that's what all the cool kids say Disagree. Pask Punisher is more effective. It certainly has the mathhammer of its side and it can engage any target as opposed to the Paskquisher, who is only limited to MC and Tanks to be effective. As for the regular Commander, it is a handy way to free yourself a HS slot, as is almost equal to 2 HS slots himself since he can order to split fire. Having said that, 2 LR, 1 troop and possibly another HS costs a lot of points, so it better work well with your overall plan. Otherwise you would be better off taking the Armoured Battlegroup. Sure, the tanks cost more but your HQ is very efficient (Vanquisher with Beast Hunter Shells firing option) and 1-2 single LR in troops, being effectively cheaper since there is no troops tax. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/293242-bog-standard-tank-commander-instead-of-pask/#findComment-3735347 Share on other sites More sharing options...
minigun762 Posted July 2, 2014 Author Share Posted July 2, 2014 But there is no reason you can't take infantry with a tank HQ right? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/293242-bog-standard-tank-commander-instead-of-pask/#findComment-3735402 Share on other sites More sharing options...
march10k Posted July 2, 2014 Share Posted July 2, 2014 Mathhammer favors punisher pask, but I have a problem with that. Mathhammer doesn't take anything but maths into account. I think it's a HUGE deal that punisher pask has to go into the teeth of the enemy to hunt his targets. OTOH, Pasquisher can be stuffed in a corner with good LOS and can do his job without exposing himself to nearly as much risk. And that's a big deal with a shooty warlord. I field demolishers along side him, and they have the same range issues that a punisher does. Guess what? I usually lose the demolishers (after they've more than earned their keep!), but I haven't lost Pasquisher yet. The combination of spamming super-scoring chimeras and shoving a pair of demolishers at the enemy while pask lurks in back and snipes kinda makes killing pask the perfect combination of "not top priority" and "too hard." Mathhammer fails to account for that kind of context, it only gives you the sort of numbers that matter at the shooting range, but are only half of the story on the battlefield. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/293242-bog-standard-tank-commander-instead-of-pask/#findComment-3735416 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nicodemus Doloroso Posted July 2, 2014 Share Posted July 2, 2014 I think to say that "[t]he normal commander is useless" (my emphasis) is a bit strong. He's not useless. With BS4 he makes a Vanquisher reasonably decent and for the same price as the old codex Vanquisher, plus he still gets orders to split fire with his wingman. I think that is more than decent for the points. I've willingly paid more for the DKoK Forward Command Tank which only gives you the BS4 and had no problem. Just because Pask is quite good doesn't mean that you MUST take him. I say, by all means, for an allied detachment take the regular commander. Keep in mind that he is also good because if you were going to take a tank anyway you are no longer forced to pay a CCS "tax" to get it in an allied detachment. And it frees up your lone allied det heavy slot. I think that is all pretty reasonable for the price and far from useless. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/293242-bog-standard-tank-commander-instead-of-pask/#findComment-3735427 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frater Cornelius Posted July 2, 2014 Share Posted July 2, 2014 I just do not see the point spending 200+ points on a single shot that may or may not make a difference. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/293242-bog-standard-tank-commander-instead-of-pask/#findComment-3735457 Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Ravel Posted July 2, 2014 Share Posted July 2, 2014 I think to say that "[t]he normal commander is useless" (my emphasis) is a bit strong. He's not useless. With BS4 he makes a Vanquisher reasonably decent and for the same price as the old codex Vanquisher, plus he still gets orders to split fire with his wingman. I think that is more than decent for the points. I've willingly paid more for the DKoK Forward Command Tank which only gives you the BS4 and had no problem. Just because Pask is quite good doesn't mean that you MUST take him. I say, by all means, for an allied detachment take the regular commander. Keep in mind that he is also good because if you were going to take a tank anyway you are no longer forced to pay a CCS "tax" to get it in an allied detachment. And it frees up your lone allied det heavy slot. I think that is all pretty reasonable for the price and far from useless. Since FW is all legal, I think he is indeed useless since the Armoured Battlegroup one is plain better. Also, the order thing is good, but it's on a 4+. Meaning you have 50% chance that you will fire both at the same target, which was not your initial idea since you used the order. Not worth it. Also, having BS4 to be forced to take a squadron is for me a big NO. BS4 on a Demolisher (since its still the overall best) is almost worthless. I need to pay 30 + a squadron for this ? Useless. This useless is based on how I play and see it. You could very well convince me that how you play it, it's perfectly fine and good. But for me, he's 100% useless. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/293242-bog-standard-tank-commander-instead-of-pask/#findComment-3735484 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joasht Posted July 3, 2014 Share Posted July 3, 2014 I'm surprised "Paskquisher" is a thing but "Pasknisher" isn't :P I've been contemplating doing both Pask and a normal commander to get four tanks in my HQ slot, freeing my heavy slots for Wyverns, Hydras and maybe a Deathstrike. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/293242-bog-standard-tank-commander-instead-of-pask/#findComment-3735607 Share on other sites More sharing options...
PureFodder Posted July 3, 2014 Share Posted July 3, 2014 There are some benefits to taking a standard tank commander. As a warlord, he can either get the preferred enemy trait (same as Pask), the one that stops infantry from taking leadership tests when they take casualties or D3 outflankers. Outflanking hellhound variants or demolishers is always fun, and if you run a lot of infantry (especially ratlings and heavy weapons squads) having a 12" bubble that stops your guys from running when they take casualties is great. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/293242-bog-standard-tank-commander-instead-of-pask/#findComment-3735715 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frater Cornelius Posted July 3, 2014 Share Posted July 3, 2014 I'm surprised "Paskquisher" is a thing but "Pasknisher" isn't I've been contemplating doing both Pask and a normal commander to get four tanks in my HQ slot, freeing my heavy slots for Wyverns, Hydras and maybe a Deathstrike. That is basically what I do. I run Pask Punisher + Executioner and then Tank Commander Demolisher + Demolisher, that way I can have 4 LR fire at their targets and take up only 2 HQ slots (to ensure split fire I sometimes run 2 techpriests). Then I fill all my HS slots with Wyvern, Hydras and Basilisks. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/293242-bog-standard-tank-commander-instead-of-pask/#findComment-3735731 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rumour Control Posted July 3, 2014 Share Posted July 3, 2014 To be honest, I've only played 2 games with the new codex and 7th so I'll add what I can. When I first read the codex I immediately thought of a cheap tank commander to free up a heavy support slot. First game I used the standard tank commander in a exterminator with exterminator and executioner mates all with heavy bolters, the tank orders were ok and precision shot made things a little easier putting wounds on my opponents heavy weapon teams and special weapons. Next game against marines I shelled out for pask. The same squadron as before, with pasks warlord trait. The sheer amount of armour saves I was forcing my opponent to mate with just the heavy bolters was brutal. I'm no longer the competitive type, but I'd seriously consider taking pask again. Seriously worth it over the standard tank commander. Though if I play my Krieg I'd still take the standard commander just for fluffs sake, though in my steel legion I'd take pask everytime. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/293242-bog-standard-tank-commander-instead-of-pask/#findComment-3735757 Share on other sites More sharing options...
CoffeeGrunt Posted July 3, 2014 Share Posted July 3, 2014 You don't get Precision Shots from Characters anymore. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/293242-bog-standard-tank-commander-instead-of-pask/#findComment-3735761 Share on other sites More sharing options...
hornywingythingy Posted July 3, 2014 Share Posted July 3, 2014 There are some benefits to taking a standard tank commander. As a warlord, he can either get the preferred enemy trait (same as Pask), the one that stops infantry from taking leadership tests when they take casualties or D3 outflankers. Outflanking hellhound variants or demolishers is always fun, and if you run a lot of infantry (especially ratlings and heavy weapons squads) having a 12" bubble that stops your guys from running when they take casualties is great. That's my thinking too, especially since you get a reroll for battleforged if you don't like your d3 roll. I think the tank commander is perfectly viable. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/293242-bog-standard-tank-commander-instead-of-pask/#findComment-3735776 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bionicman Posted July 3, 2014 Share Posted July 3, 2014 There are some benefits to taking a standard tank commander. As a warlord, he can either get the preferred enemy trait (same as Pask), the one that stops infantry from taking leadership tests when they take casualties or D3 outflankers. Outflanking hellhound variants or demolishers is always fun, and if you run a lot of infantry (especially ratlings and heavy weapons squads) having a 12" bubble that stops your guys from running when they take casualties is great. Woah, thanks for pointing out! Remember, if you are playing a battle forged army you can reroll your warlord trait. So chances getting preferred enemy are high and Executioners an option if your gaming group doesn't allow UCs as Pask (as mine does :( ). Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/293242-bog-standard-tank-commander-instead-of-pask/#findComment-3735819 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rumour Control Posted July 3, 2014 Share Posted July 3, 2014 Cheers for the heads up coffee grunt, I'll remember next time I play. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/293242-bog-standard-tank-commander-instead-of-pask/#findComment-3735997 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seahawk Posted July 3, 2014 Share Posted July 3, 2014 Since you can never choose your Warlord from units in the Allied Detachment, that point is as moot as my first one about Pask. Remember, the OP is asking for Allied Detachment choices, not CAD choices. Since you don't get a Warlord trait no matter what, I'd just cheap out and go for the regular TC over Pask, because all he brings for 40 more points is a reroll or two. If you absolutely need it to happen then bring him, but you shouldn't need to unless the CAD is bad. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/293242-bog-standard-tank-commander-instead-of-pask/#findComment-3736007 Share on other sites More sharing options...
CoffeeGrunt Posted July 3, 2014 Share Posted July 3, 2014 Tbh, re-rolling to hit with most primary weapons, as well as rerolling to pen with a lot of other stuff still makes him a great deal. I pay more and get less from Longstrike in that regard. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/293242-bog-standard-tank-commander-instead-of-pask/#findComment-3736032 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seahawk Posted July 3, 2014 Share Posted July 3, 2014 I feel though, that if you need that reroll then the rest of the army needs an overhaul because it's apparently ineffective. A single vehicle in an allied detachment should not be relied upon in such a manner. Of course, if you have 40 points to spare then sure, toss him on board. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/293242-bog-standard-tank-commander-instead-of-pask/#findComment-3736052 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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