Rules question: Chaplain assault bonuses

[SonOfThunder]

Hi all,

 

I've 2 rules questions I haven't been able to find an answer for. Maybe someone with more experience than me can help me:

 

When a squad with an attached chaplain does a multiple assault (let's say DC squad), I know they lose the bonus for rage and furious assault, but what happens with the rerolls from the chaplain? I guess he still counts as assaulting and hence the rerolls remain, but I'm not sure.

 

Second question, a bit uglier: What happens if a chaplain dies the same turn he assaults before his squad can hit? This could've happened to me twice recently, due to challenging chaos lords. And I would've assumed the bonus is lost (since the chaplain is dead), but I just read a thread in some other site stating that the bonus is conferred when the chaplain and squad assault, and it doesn't matter if the chaplain later dies, any squad members that haven't attacked yet still have the rerolls. And now I'm in doubt :)

 

Any takers?

[Jakbal]

While I do not know what is technically "correct" ... I would play the 1st question as rerolls remain, and the second question as rerolls do not (bonus lost at Chappy's death).

 

Actually, regarding the 2nd question it depends on my opponent.  Some of my friends play 40k in a "what makes sense" type of casual manner that is laid back and fun.  Others want to win at all costs and seem to bend rules in their favor as much as possible.  While I'm not proud to admit it ... if I were playing against one of the later, I'd probably try to retain the rerolls during that particular assault and end up in a rule argument which we end up resolving by a random dice roll.

[TheSauce]

I agree. The 1st situation is pretty cut and dry - the penalty for disordered/multi-charge is that you lose extra attacks and furious charge, not the rerolls from "Hatred" (which I think works on the first round of combat even if you're the one being charged?)

 

In the second case it's very much NOT specified. In the fluff the rerolls come from the chappy pumping up the other marines with fiery oratory before blows are struck, so it would make sense that the rerolls persist even if the chappy dies. This is different than the FNP bonus from a priest or apothecary, who is in theory tending to the wounds being inflicted and mitigating them (so it makes more sense that if he dies at I10 FNP is lost for the rest of the combat).

 

I would probably play that the rerolls persist if the chappy dies.

[SonOfThunder]

Thanks for the answers!

 

I think you're correct for hatred (although it's not hatred, but zealot :)), but BA chaplains don't have zealot as regular SM chaplains do. Instead they have liturgies of blood, which only affects when you assault. I guess this will change with the next dex whenever it comes, and just use the zealot rule. Right now BA chaplains have 2 specific rules that mimic what zealot does (except for the bit of rerolling to wound with DC, and only when assaulting)

 

With the sanguinary priest there's no doubt, it states friendly units within range, if he's dead, nobody's within range :)

[InquisitorBlack]

I agree. The 1st situation is pretty cut and dry - the penalty for disordered/multi-charge is that you lose extra attacks and furious charge, not the rerolls from "Hatred" (which I think works on the first round of combat even if you're the one being charged?)

 

In the second case it's very much NOT specified. In the fluff the rerolls come from the chappy pumping up the other marines with fiery oratory before blows are struck, so it would make sense that the rerolls persist even if the chappy dies. This is different than the FNP bonus from a priest or apothecary, who is in theory tending to the wounds being inflicted and mitigating them (so it makes more sense that if he dies at I10 FNP is lost for the rest of the combat).

 

I would probably play that the rerolls persist if the chappy dies.

 

I agree with this logic. Fluffwise, I'd say the rerolls would go through even if he dies at I10. He is not actively buffing the DC, it was his ranting, raving and frothing during the charge that made them rage extra hard.

[Shaezus]

If we go by RAW, "on a player turn in which he assaults...", this would mean the squad get the reroll regardless of if the chaplain dies. He has already assaulted, therefore they get the reroll.

[SonOfThunder]

Yes, RAW is rerolls, I read the rule a couple of times yesterday as well. It still feels a bit like a loophole more than an intended behavior, but I guess that's what happens with this game :D

 

Fluff explanations are good, but only apply loosely to the rules, when I'm playing I'd rather have a clear rule than a fluff interpretation :D...The chaplain has already motivated his fellows, once they're in the thick of it, his death wouldn't change that. This interpretation is fine. But still the model has been removed, so it somehow feels like his buffs should disappear as well.

 

Hopefully he'll keep winning his challenges and I won't have to argue about this :)

[PD78]

If anything, seeing the chaplain die would make the unit even more pissed and likely to get their rerolls. RAW and fluff agree here, methinks. Probably also RAI.