BrotherLibrarianGiles Posted July 4, 2014 Share Posted July 4, 2014 Hi all,Slowly my gaming group has been getting comfortable with the new edition. Slowly mostly because many of the changes are so small that they are hard to notice. Now a few questions came up during my last game (threeway Maelstrom - Ravenwing, Footguard and Nids; great fun), and I hope you can give me a few pointers.My Ravenwing was hit by a low AP large blast. The blast was targeted at my command squad, but scattered of so it hit an Attack Squad and an Attack bike nearby. Is only the unit selected as the initial target for the attack able to jink, or are all models under the Large Blast's final position targets? We agreed that RAW would be that only the command squad could jink. The word "target" is never explicitly defined (?) and used a bit fuzzily.The second question: A Hive Tyrant landed close to several of my units and successfully got off Psychic Scream in the Psychic Phase. While two units were targets (comm. squad and an attack squad), two of the command squad were out of the powers 6" range. I rolled box cars, and failed all Feel No Pain rolls, and was too lost to check for range. Later we noticed it, but could not quite agree on if all models of a unit targeted by a nova can die, or only those in range. I have always considered it to be those within range, but others are not so sure.Thank you for your help Brothers,RegardsBrother Librarian Giles Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/293322-rules-query-target-nova/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigGumbo Posted July 4, 2014 Share Posted July 4, 2014 Re jink: the declaration that you're jinking comes before To Hit rolls, therefore before scatter, so no jinking for the unfortunate victims of inaccurate shooting. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/293322-rules-query-target-nova/#findComment-3736536 Share on other sites More sharing options...
SonOfThunder Posted July 4, 2014 Share Posted July 4, 2014 It's not only if you scatter, if the blast lands where it had to, and it happens to hit several units, only the targeted one can declare a jink. This could be faqed at some point, but as it is now, the rule is quite clear. Big hit for biker armies. An easy faq or house rule would be to say that any unit can declare jink before any to hit rolls are made, not only the targeted one. I don't know if that could be abused somehow. Or maybe this is the way they want it to work, but it does feel like an oversight of jink vs blasts. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/293322-rules-query-target-nova/#findComment-3736555 Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrotherLibrarianGiles Posted July 4, 2014 Author Share Posted July 4, 2014 Check! Thank you for your replies.I agree with you, both in terms of the rule, and in that is a bit of a hit to bikers. I guess that Libby with a field and the Dark Shroud are more important right now. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/293322-rules-query-target-nova/#findComment-3736563 Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Librarian Posted July 4, 2014 Share Posted July 4, 2014 Only those in range can die. But I think Psychic Scream is not a nova power. Or do the Nids have another version? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/293322-rules-query-target-nova/#findComment-3736564 Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrotherLibrarianGiles Posted July 4, 2014 Author Share Posted July 4, 2014 Could it be that theirs is called Psychic Shriek? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/293322-rules-query-target-nova/#findComment-3736602 Share on other sites More sharing options...
march10k Posted July 4, 2014 Share Posted July 4, 2014 Interesting...so if I target a demolisher cannon at a plagubearer standing near a daemon prince of nurgle (there's a notorious trio of those in my shop, 2+ jink comes standard due to shrouding), and manage to clip the prince, he gets no 2+ jink, no 3+ armor, just a pitiful invul...I don't think you should be able to jink blasts in the first place...you'd have to be Neo to weave your way through all that shrapnel!!! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/293322-rules-query-target-nova/#findComment-3736866 Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigGumbo Posted July 8, 2014 Share Posted July 8, 2014 Interesting...so if I target a demolisher cannon at a plagubearer standing near a daemon prince of nurgle (there's a notorious trio of those in my shop, 2+ jink comes standard due to shrouding), and manage to clip the prince, he gets no 2+ jink, no 3+ armor, just a pitiful invul...I don't think you should be able to jink blasts in the first place...you'd have to be Neo to weave your way through all that shrapnel!!! Doesn't Jink only apply to FMCs that are Swooping? If so, then it's a non-issue as they can't be hit by blasts anyway... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/293322-rules-query-target-nova/#findComment-3739902 Share on other sites More sharing options...
SvenONE Posted July 8, 2014 Share Posted July 8, 2014 Great rules debate about the blast and 7th Ed. Jink. It's obviously something they never encountered in their "playtesting" Since things happen "simultaneously" I'd say that any squad that is in range of the blast would have to declare their jink when the blast is being fired. If they don't declare it, it's as though the unit wasn't paying attention and ended up as collateral damage. From a gameplay point of view, I'd say you roll off whether they can jink or not. It's safe to assume that a rider as aware as an Astartes should be able to still claim the jink. As for the Nova, the rules state that the power automatically hits all the units within range regardless. If it's beyond 6", they shouldn't be hit. Nova's don't appear to require you to declare a target. Since it automatically hits. You can theoretically Nova a group locked in combat. For instance, a Librarian on a bike can detach himself from the unit while the bikes charge say, an Ork Boyz squad. Through some miracle, should the Librarian survive an opponent's round of shooting and the bike squad is still in combat, he can comfortably roll up next to the combat in the movement phase, cast his Nova in the psychic phase wiping a bunch of Boyz out, and then charge in the assault phase to join the combat. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/293322-rules-query-target-nova/#findComment-3740017 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ozshock Posted July 9, 2014 Share Posted July 9, 2014 only the target of any shooting/psychic attack can choose to jink...dont have rule in front of me but im pretty sure it says target so if i target unit A...they can jink before i roll to hit...it it scatter onto target B...lucky me they have no jink as i didnt target them in the first place NOVA: as far as i can remember, Nova hits UNITS within 6" (or 9", not sure which is 6" TBH lol)...if one person in the unit is within 6" then it hits the unit and can then wound those beyond the limit...sorry adding that Nova also states that it can hit those in combat, no argueing that one...SvenONE that is exactly what you can do, and what i do with my GK purifiers...combat squad them, line up the first group in front of them second group, they charge the first group (after surviving the first round of Cleansing Flame) then the second group Cleanses again, and charges in to help the remaining of first group in combat...awesome plan Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/293322-rules-query-target-nova/#findComment-3740468 Share on other sites More sharing options...
PureFodder Posted July 12, 2014 Share Posted July 12, 2014 Interesting...so if I target a demolisher cannon at a plagubearer standing near a daemon prince of nurgle (there's a notorious trio of those in my shop, 2+ jink comes standard due to shrouding), and manage to clip the prince, he gets no 2+ jink, no 3+ armor, just a pitiful invul...I don't think you should be able to jink blasts in the first place...you'd have to be Neo to weave your way through all that shrapnel!!! Doesn't Jink only apply to FMCs that are Swooping? If so, then it's a non-issue as they can't be hit by blasts anyway... FMCs can now be hit by blasts while swooping, provided that they are not the target of the attack. There is a specific rule that fliers (ie. flying vehicles) cannot be hit by blasts and templates even if one scatters onto it, however in 7th edition, this rule was removed from the FMC part (it was explicitly stated in the 6th ed rule book). So if a swooping FMC is sat next to another non-swooping model, you can target the model on the ground and lay the blast marker over the swooping FMC and still hit it. You can also scatter a blast onto them or flame through a unit (provided you follow the rules for maximising hits in the targeted unit) and hit a swooping FMC. If you are sat on a skyfire nexus, you can straight up fire a blast or template weapon directly at a swooping FMC. The same rules also apply for 'accidentally' flaming and dropping blast templates onto invisible units. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/293322-rules-query-target-nova/#findComment-3743199 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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