Unusual force weapons, how much WYSIWYG leeway is there?

[Rasclomalum]

Since I'm clearly in need of psychiatric attention and spend inordinate amounts of time worrying about how future modelling projects may look on the battlefield I got it into my head to model a sorcerer without any force weapon whatsoever. He'd be using mind bullets or whatever in close combat and now has one hand free for whatever modelling purposes a free hand could come in handy for. Now, would this make him have an unusual force weapon by default or would it just be dumb?

[Dam13n]

If you're local group is strict about WYSIWYG then I suspect it might be classed as an unusual force weapon. If they're not so strict, then he'll be armed with whichever version is mentioned on your army list.

[Quixus]

If you're local group is strict about WYSIWYG then it would have to be an unusual force weapon. If they're not so strict, then he'll be armed with whichever version is mentioned on your army list.

No it would not. By strict WYSIWYG standards this would be a model lacking a force weapon. The sorcerer has no way to take an unusual force weapon. Besides not corresponding to one of the standard shapes an unusual force weapon must have at least one unique rule. The sorcerer has no way of acquiring such a weapon.

[Ozshock]

im pretty sure the WYSIWYG rule states that the model must follow the rules for whatever wargear he has...so you cant have a guardsmen stand in for a terminator for eg...

 

if the sorcerer is said to have a force sword, then you will need to model a force sword somewhere on your model...if it is just a force weapon then try to find out what weapons other sorcerers are using (i should say people who use sorcerers)

 

im a GK player and an unusual force weapon is a weapon that has a specific ruleing in your codex...for me it is Halberds/Daemonhammers/Falchions/Warding Stave etc...all have unique rules and are not JUST AP3 power swords...

 

if in your codex rules it states that it is a force weapon with a special rule, then you will still need to follow what EXACT weapon it is...you cant model a halberd for a swrod that gives +1 invul for instance

 

imho it doesnt matter what your local group is strict on...if a sorcerer has a force sword and no other weapon, then sure you can use a stand in, but once you have a finished model it should represent the character/unit it was modelled after

[Dam13n]

There is no rule for WYSIWYG any more. It was removed in 6th and remains absent in 7th.

The force weapon rules tell us to look at the model, which in this instance will not be clearly modelled with either a sword, axe or stave.

Now in order to avoid confusion this, lets call it abnormal, force weapon has to be identified as a single profile. Some groups will wish for it to use the Unusual Force Weapon classification based on its appearance, even though it lacks special rules of its own. Some will be happy to go with whatever is listed on the army roster.

[Ozshock]

no rule from the rulebook...but tournaments still expect you to portray exactly what a said unit has...

 

and usually it will state in the unit description what type of weapon it is...if it does not ill eat my boots, cause sorcerers im pretty sure have a force sword...therefore a sword should be modelled for WYSIWYG

 

if it just states force weapon...then go nuts, you can then choose axe stave or sword...but beware...axe is S+1 AP2 init1, sword is Suser AP3 init user, and Stave is S+2 AP4 Concussive...you should have an option to choose which it is if you could choose...therefore model whichever you like to use but i would suggest magnets to switch it out for different army comps...

 

but im sure it has to be a sword

[Dam13n]

A Sorcerer has a Force Weapon.

[Ozshock]

which then means it could be a stave, axe or sword as i said...but you will still have to model the weapon you are using for tournaments...its not in the 40k rules but will be in ANY players pack you get for a tournament

[Dam13n]

At no point did the OP mention tournaments.

 

Plus, not everybody goes to tournaments.  Yes, under those circumstances it may be a requirement for such weapons to be "correctly" modeled, however under normal gaming conditions no such requirement exists.

 

Under normal gaming conditions (at my local gaming group, playing against my friends) there is no way I would force anyone to replace their lovingly converted model with a substitute to enforce WYSIWYG.  So long as the weapon profile used is consistent, I really don't mind.  

 

There is also no rule that requires them to do so, as WYSIWYG is no longer a rule.  It has it's place in creating list opacity, and is helpful in game at times, but outside of tournament play (which enforce rules in addition to those contained within the rulebook and codices) there is nothing prohibiting such a model.

 

We are here to discuss the official rules produced by GW, not those created by tournament organisers.

[Quixus]

If WYSIWYG is no longer a rule, is modelling for advantage still prohibited? Just curious.

[Dam13n]

Well I can find no mention of it in the core principles, so it would seem as though it is allowed.  However, it does go somewhat against the spirit of the game.

[Gentlemanloser]

Modelling for an advantage was a rule last seen in 5th edition.

 

It was absent in 6th and as 7th is mainly a C&P job of 6th, it remains absent still.

[jeffersonian000]

If the Sorcerer has a Force weapon, yet the model has no weapons modeled, I'd actually request the player to treat it as an Unususl Force weapon because I have no desire to put up with "it"s a Force Axe!" "You said it was a Force Sword before I charged you with Terminators." "Well, I meant Force Axe!".

 

As far as I'm concerned, an undefined Force weapon is automatically Unusual.

 

SJ

[Morollan]

This is really not a question that 'the internet' can answer as it depends entirely on the people the OP is playing with. If it's a group of friends then I'm sure they would be fine as long as it is explained clearly what the model is armed with. If it's a store or club then it may well vary from person to person. If it's a tournament then the TO will probably require WYSIWYG.

 

Basically, ask the guys you're playing with, not some random strangers on the internet!

[Rasclomalum]

If the Sorcerer has a Force weapon, yet the model has no weapons modeled, I'd actually request the player to treat it as an Unususl Force weapon because I have no desire to put up with "it"s a Force Axe!" "You said it was a Force Sword before I charged you with Terminators." "Well, I meant Force Axe!".

 

As far as I'm concerned, an undefined Force weapon is automatically Unusual.

 

SJ

 

I think this should be an addendum to the current rules. "If the force/power weapon cannot be identified as a sword/maul/staff/lance it is S:user AP3 by default." 

[Quixus]

You would also have to strike the rule about force/power weapons always being one of the three types.

[Ozshock]

There is no rule for WYSIWYG any more. It was removed in 6th and remains absent in 7th.

 

The force weapon rules tell us to look at the model, which in this instance will not be clearly modelled with either a sword, axe or stave.

 

Now in order to avoid confusion this, lets call it abnormal, force weapon has to be identified as a single profile. Some groups will wish for it to use the Unusual Force Weapon classification based on its appearance, even though it lacks special rules of its own. Some will be happy to go with whatever is listed on the army roster.

 

i would have to disagree with you on this point...

 

i know the GW rulebook does not state anything about WYSIWYG...but how hard would it be to model a sword if the model is supposed to have a sword...you wouldnt model a stave if it was a sword would you?

 

i agree if the rule is ambiguous listing it as a force weapon only...then you get the choice of which force weapon you want to model...but imho it should still be the weapon that you want to play with...if you want to change it every game, then magnetise it and have some spares...ive done this with all my terminators (GK get 4 different weapon options...including Heavy and Banners)

 

however, if you are in the middle of building an army, and playing only within your local group, i dont think any "enforces" WYSIWYG...so ask your local gameing group and see if they have thoughts on this...

 

but i will say again...as a finished army, you should be displaying exactly what it is you are using...multiple options should be magnetised for ease of change, but it is also OK so long as your opponent understands what the choice is to not use WYSIWYG until the model/squad is finished...if you model an axe with no way to change it out...it should be played as an axe...if the squad cant use an axe it shouldnt be modeled with one.

[GreyCrow]

 

There is no rule for WYSIWYG any more. It was removed in 6th and remains absent in 7th.

 

The force weapon rules tell us to look at the model, which in this instance will not be clearly modelled with either a sword, axe or stave.

 

Now in order to avoid confusion this, lets call it abnormal, force weapon has to be identified as a single profile. Some groups will wish for it to use the Unusual Force Weapon classification based on its appearance, even though it lacks special rules of its own. Some will be happy to go with whatever is listed on the army roster.

 

i would have to disagree with you on this point...

 

i know the GW rulebook does not state anything about WYSIWYG...but how hard would it be to model a sword if the model is supposed to have a sword...you wouldnt model a stave if it was a sword would you?

 

i agree if the rule is ambiguous listing it as a force weapon only...then you get the choice of which force weapon you want to model...but imho it should still be the weapon that you want to play with...if you want to change it every game, then magnetise it and have some spares...ive done this with all my terminators (GK get 4 different weapon options...including Heavy and Banners)

 

however, if you are in the middle of building an army, and playing only within your local group, i dont think any "enforces" WYSIWYG...so ask your local gameing group and see if they have thoughts on this...

 

but i will say again...as a finished army, you should be displaying exactly what it is you are using...multiple options should be magnetised for ease of change, but it is also OK so long as your opponent understands what the choice is to not use WYSIWYG until the model/squad is finished...if you model an axe with no way to change it out...it should be played as an axe...if the squad cant use an axe it shouldnt be modeled with one.

 

 

Because some people want to have their models look exactly the way they want, and not "monkey see, monkey do" what is in the codex, so that they can express their creativity ?

I'm not being aggressive to you, just trying to show you how enforcing a stance on how to enjoy the game/assemble your models is annoying to people.

 

To the OP and to be honest, most gaming groups will be okay with counts as and not strictly following the WYSIWYG as long as it's abudantly clear what is what.

In the case of your Sorcerer, I suggest that you write down on his profile what kind of Force weapon it is. That way, you don't seem to "choose" what weapon profile your mind bullets have for each game !

[TwinOcted]

If the objective here is to keep the model's hands free, then you can always model the force weapon "slung" i.e force sword in a scabbard, force stave slung across the back etc.

[Valerian]

Simple solution: model as you see fit (eg empty-handed, casting witchfire, what have you), and place an unglued plastic weapon on the base for the duration of the game to represent what specific type of Force Weapon the model happens to be wielding. Want a Force Axe? Put an axe bit on the base. Next time want a Sword? On goes a sword bit. You can even use a small dab of blu-tac to keep the bit from falling off during movement.

[Quixus]

That's only marginally less work than magnetizing a weapon arm.

[Brother Ambroz]

Reading through this and this is a bit off topic but could you post a picture of this guy? Really curious what he looks like.

[Jolemai]

There's an example in the HQ Showcase thread.

[*Furyou Miko]

It's significantly less work than magnetizing anything.

 

Just put an unpainted bit on the base with some blu-tac as a reminder of what the open hand counts as.

 

Of course, personally, I would go with the logic that "empty hand = punching = blunt = force staff".

 

Here's a similar question: My Librarian is armed with a Force Kama. Would you say that counts as an axe or a sword? I play it as an axe, but I'm curious what other people would assume.

[Grey Mage]

If WYSIWYG is no longer a rule, is modelling for advantage still prohibited? Just curious.

Its as prohibited as your morals and the irritation of the people around you prohibit it. Like always, since it was always a grey area in the rules anyways.

 

That being said- mind bullets- is a cool enough idea. If one had the time they might make a little bit of colored plexiglass with the weapon type to be used etched on it, as if it was shooting tiny swords out of his forehead. Why? Because 40k, thats why.