ZONKEY Posted July 7, 2014 Share Posted July 7, 2014 Hi just in the spirit of confusion why did games workshop give the deathwing knights maces and not swords, swords in my minds eye make better sense they could be ap3 and had +2 strength and ap2 for the smite round, for a knight would wield and sword and shield rather than a mace *this is just my opinion* Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FerociousBeast Posted July 7, 2014 Share Posted July 7, 2014 Because the Knights' purpose is to capture the Fallen, not kill them. A mace can incapacitate better than a sword. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gillyfish Posted July 7, 2014 Share Posted July 7, 2014 I think Ferocious Beast pretty much has it, although there is probably also a design choice there; GW were going for a more medieval aesthetic and lots of models already had swords, but few had maces. The same design choice is why the Ravenwing Black Knights have weapons that closely resemble medieval cavalry hammers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZONKEY Posted July 7, 2014 Author Share Posted July 7, 2014 Just doesn't seem right, I just have them count as thunder hammers with my dark vengance terminator sergeant Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kasper_Hawser Posted July 7, 2014 Share Posted July 7, 2014 You are entitled to your tastes of course. For me either way would look cool. I suspect it might be a balance issue as well, giving the DWK a one time super smite at Ap2, and then the rest of the game with Ap 4, albeit wit +2 strength. Dangerous enough even with MEQ armies, yet not so overpowered to own them, except for CSM. Sword, mace or pickaxe, still looks awesome and fits with the archaic technology look of the DA. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kasper_Hawser Posted July 7, 2014 Share Posted July 7, 2014 Also traditionally, the way to kill heavily armour end soldiers in European medieval times was with a mace or blunt weapon where the concussive force will rattle the man inside to death even if it doesn't penetrate the armour. To use a sword, you would have to know exactly where to hit: the joints, neck and legs where armour is weakest. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZONKEY Posted July 7, 2014 Author Share Posted July 7, 2014 That makes a bit more sense Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chaplain Lucifer Posted July 7, 2014 Share Posted July 7, 2014 On the middle ages: http://www.lordsandladies.org/knights-weapons.htm Maces were weapon used by knights. I guess Grey Knights have swords and halberds so GW wanted something knightly yet different, so we got maces. And like Kasper_Hawser pointed maces are better used to incapacitate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZONKEY Posted July 7, 2014 Author Share Posted July 7, 2014 Thank you for clarifying things battle brother Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother dean Posted July 7, 2014 Share Posted July 7, 2014 Also we are Warrior Monks... In DnD Monks can only have crushing weapons, not cutting. And BT already had sword bretheren. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SvenONE Posted July 7, 2014 Share Posted July 7, 2014 For what it's worth, someone on here (probably somewhere in the ETL thread) had some AWESOME sword versions of the knights. But yes, the Mace is good for stunning...AND SMITING. Can't SMITE someone with a sword! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZONKEY Posted July 7, 2014 Author Share Posted July 7, 2014 With a bastard sword I bet you could smite like a champion I do really like the flail Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SnakeChisler Posted July 7, 2014 Share Posted July 7, 2014 They were looking at the standard force profile so like the Crozius and the Force Staff your getting a rulebook +2 strength standard initiative ap 4 weapon Nice bit of fluff with the preferred enemy and -1 to ap against CSM and having played against CSM a couple of times this is just plain brutal WS5 with re-roll 1's to hit & to wound at ap2/3 Oh and you can give it a nice hard thing name like mmm Mace of Absolution ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
march10k Posted July 7, 2014 Share Posted July 7, 2014 Also we are Warrior Monks... In DnD Monks can only have crushing weapons, not cutting. Wait...this is DnD? ROFL...you know the DnD monk archetype is actually Japanese? Europe Christianity never had warrior monks. It did have knightly orders that took (and routinely violated) monastic vows, but those are represented by Paladins in DnD... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Azoriel Posted July 7, 2014 Share Posted July 7, 2014 DnD Clerics use blunt weapons. DnD monks are like Kwai Chang Caine out of the movie Kung Fu. I always saw the mace focus as being analogous to the Blood Angel thing with axes - you can't just have "swords, swords, SWORDS!" be the only theme all the time, so it's good to throw something else into the mix for variety. The Blood Angels like swords, but they also like axes; similarly, the DA secondary focus on power mauls fits in with the fact that the Interrogator-Chaplain is our unique HQ (who carries a power maul). But I do wish there was some kind of sword option for DWK, too. (Or at least something analogous to those two-handed sword wielding honour guards that show up in Gav Thorpe's DA novels.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
march10k Posted July 7, 2014 Share Posted July 7, 2014 There is. Make your own with vanguard swords and a little greenstuff. They can still be DWK! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Azoriel Posted July 7, 2014 Share Posted July 7, 2014 There is. Make your own with vanguard swords and a little greenstuff. They can still be DWK! Hm... You know, I was going to say that I'd rather see something in artificer armor so I could run something like the famous "Lion Guard" picture (see below), but I could see an excellent case for "counts as" DWKs... http://img3.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20090409184255/warhammer40k/images/5/5f/El_jonson.jpg They (stubbornly) use archaic power greatswords that don't work as well as normal power swords unless you supercharge the blades (hence why they're normally AP 4), they avoid stabbing their opponents in the back so they never sweeping advance, they have powerful refractor fields built into their armor, and they refuse to ride in anything less prestigious than a land raider... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SnakeChisler Posted July 7, 2014 Share Posted July 7, 2014 I like clubbing them into repentance And smiting the ones that I cant club ;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother dean Posted July 8, 2014 Share Posted July 8, 2014 Well the only DnD I've had was via Azure bands and Baldurs gate... That would explain the katanas... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phoebus Posted July 8, 2014 Share Posted July 8, 2014 Maces have nothing to do with capturing armored people intact (as opposed to killing them). Flanged maces (and the beak-shaped reverse end of hammers) became prevalent at a time when plate armor became advanced enough that edged weapons were rendered largely worthless against it. Anyone interested in this can Google the German school of swordsmanship. Where Warhammer 40k is concerned, though, this issue is largely irrelevant: you either have a chainsword or some other form of "mundane" close combat weapon (in which case power armor beats you 66% of the time), or you have a power sword or better (in which case your sword's edge carves through power armour like a hot knife through butter). The Maces of Absolution are this really odd compromise of flavor and mechanics in the sense that they have power fields... but they only work as well as other power weapons against Chaos Space Marine power armor... but also have an ability where they work much better than other power weapons against anyone for a very short period of time.Anyways. I think it's a safe bet that this was a design choice that was informed by the fact that this other Chapter (cough, Grey Knights, cough!) ended up featuring a whole lot more individuals with swords than they once did. Don't get me wrong, I think it would have been great to still include maces, etc., as part of the Deathwing Knight set, but it's a bit odd for me that the "Winged Sword" Chapter's super-duper elite squads don't use, well, swords. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JeffJedi Posted July 8, 2014 Share Posted July 8, 2014 True they are only AP4 but you end up 2+ to wound on most things you face. Insta-killing humans and eldar. Plus they look RAD. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JJD Posted July 8, 2014 Share Posted July 8, 2014 I think the reference to monks using clubbing weapons is a reference to the custom that priests should not carry bladed weapons and so would get around this by entering battle with blunt weapons such as a mace. I'm afraid I have no historic reference for this I just read a lot of Bernard Cornwell and the like. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZONKEY Posted July 8, 2014 Author Share Posted July 8, 2014 Thank you Phoebus I think you summed it up well :) shame they aren't like lightning claws Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larhendiel Posted July 8, 2014 Share Posted July 8, 2014 I like those maces. I like them so much that I proxy knights for Terminators with TH&SS and vice versa Yet most of the time I use knights as knights, hitting on 3+, wounding on 2+ 2 attacks each and nice 3 attacks with ap3 with T5? They are the most juicy unit we ever had! But for me the true, hidden strenght is AP4 against units with 3+ Sv. Why you ask? On average, if they charge, they score on average 12 hits with hammer of wrath ant their non-augmented weapons, thats on average 4 unsaved wounds against average marine unit of 5 That leaves one sad Astrates on its own, often locked in combad, it saves our precious knights from retaliation fire, because when enemy has his shooting phase he has to wait untill assault phase so you finish his unit out and charge your next turn, OR sacrifice another younit and do a counter-charge knowing you can go nuke with AP2 S10! SO whatever he does he is screwed AGAIN! Before I assembled these models I was pondering on idea of changing them to swords/axes/halberds. Yet I also had the vision of an angry knight templar (they were monks afaik) with morning star clubbing heresy out of heretics So I stayed with spiky balls Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JJD Posted July 8, 2014 Share Posted July 8, 2014 You know who else is modeled with a bad ass spikey mace, Horus! DUN DUN DUN .............. Oh no we were the heretics all long. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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