deathwing Knight maces

[JJD]

If I promises not make any more silly posts you won't set the chaplains on me will you .......

[Phoebus]

Something else.  The whole "monks using clubs" or what have you bit has, to my knowledge, pretty weak backing from history.  The whole "shall not draw blood" concept dates back to the Bayeux Tapestry of the Battle of Hastings, and stems from the depiction of a bishop wielding a mace.  Point in fact, we know that a great many high-ranking priests of the Catholic Church took to war because, at that time, religious office and military activities were not mutually exclusive.  Cardinals, Bishops, etc., took to conflicts ranging from the ongoing strife of Renaissance Italy to the anti-pagan crusades in Poland, to the final siege of Constantinople.  One has to remember that religious office was often just as much a gift to favored individuals as political office was.  Knights belonging to Christian military orders certainly (the better equivalent to Dark Angels) did not shy from using edged weapons, and I sincerely doubt that most ordained priests who entered combat limited themselves to non-edged weapons, either.

 

But again, this is kind of a moot point since maces were not intended to simply bludgeon or incapacitate.  They were, if anything, better at dealing with advanced armor as time went by. A combatant using one almost certainly had in mind bashing his opponent's skull in or breaking his ribs, as opposed to adhering to a (probably dubious) principle on shedding blood.  ;)

[Tenacious_B]

Hey, everyone I don't post that often but this thread caught my interest because I'm a history buff. The mace is an interesting in the fact that it is as much a symbol as a weapon. You can go right back to the ancient Egyptians where, after the advent of swords and spears, the club was reserved for the use of officers and nobility. This tradition runs right through to modern times where most Government offices, including the royalty of the Commonwealth, have a ceremonial mace. The mace didn't become a prevalent weapon because of this until later Midevil time's when as Phoebus pointed out new armor stopped most common blades ect. Someone noticed that the few people allowed to carry maces, royalty and church officials mainly, were doing most of the damage on the battle field. The Deathwing Knights carry maces and not swords not because they look cool, but because they show that they are the best that the Legion has. Its a symbol of their high rank in the Inner Circle. Truthfully I just surprised that not all our Masters and Grand Masters carry maces.

[Bryan Blaire]

That would be pretty unlikely, because the maces are a new thing, while one of the symbols of office for the SGM is a sword and has been back to 2nd Edition. There may be something to the "best of the best of the best" idea on why DW Knights use the maces, but they aren't going to take Azrael, Belial, Sammael Ezekiel, or Asmodai's symbols/armaments of power after all these years to reinforce a brand new potential theme.

[Phoebus]

Yeah, what Bryan said.  Plus, don't forget - where weapons with power fields are concerned, "blunt" and "edged" don't enter into that equation.

Where the medieval era is concerned, not that it's either here or there (no disrespect intended, Tenacious), I suspect people didn't need to take the hint from the few bishops and high-ranking officials on the battlefield (who, at any rate, didn't enter into combat that much).  The making of plate armor was a rather nuanced art/science.  Its development would have been accompanied by an understanding of what worked and didn't work against it.  No fighter from a state where custom plate armor or arsenal-made plate armor was prevalent would have been ignorant about these things.

[Gillyfish]

Just to add to what Phoebus said, it's important not to conflate two different ends of the medieval period. Maces were an early weapon and were sometimes used by clerics (such as bishops), but spears would have been the most used weapon by infantry and lances and/or swords by the nobles/gentry. Towards the end of the medieval period plate armour developed to the point where swords were pretty useless (although thin knives called dirks were used to great effect, as they could be used to exploit joints in the armour where there was only likely to be chainmail protection). At that point, blunt trauma weapons made a bit more of a comeback as you could cause hefty internal damage to a person through the armour. One of the best weapons for that was the cavalry hammer (which the Black Knights use) as it had a combination of blunt force (the hammer side) and puncture (the pointed axe side). You might typically use the hammer side to knock an opponent back or down and then reverse the weapon to finish them off through a puncture wound. It was a far more versatile and effective weapon than a straight mace might have been.

 

However, as has been pointed out, that is pretty moot when you have power fields in the mix!

 

One thing I like about the design choices is that the Dark Angels have a more 'late medieval' feel to them than the Templars, who have a more early medieval feel to them and I think that choice is deliberate.

[Xwingt65]

Also traditionally, the way to kill heavily armour end soldiers in European medieval times was with a mace or blunt weapon where the concussive force will rattle the man inside to death even if it doesn't penetrate the armour. To use a sword, you would have to know exactly where to hit: the joints, neck and legs where armour is weakest.

Indeed.

 

If any one wants vivis descriptions of medieval style combat, and weapons versus armor, i would check out Joe Abercrombies books.

 

And the deathwing knights look damn cool with those maces.

 

I want me a Deathwing army :(