Remtek Posted July 8, 2014 Share Posted July 8, 2014 Link to spreadsheet: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1tnnif7ii5gtbjGbKy36y2PydOSlWPhu6VaU7ICL4L3A/edit?pli=1#gid=0 This is just an overview vs. armored targets. Some of the units are more geared towards infantry. Template options not included, but these are either a clear winner or a loser depending on target in general. If anyone disagrees with assumptions below please leave feedback Summary/Conclusion: Baal Pred: + Massive winner vs AV 11 strong vs AV 14 descent vs AV 13. Has scout and flank (utility). Good mobility for scoring. Somewhat decent vs flyers, but not very dependable (positioning and luck required) Good vs infantry. - Effective range 24" Due to the range surviablity second weakest due to high point cost. Vulnerable vs assault. Needs to be obscured 25% for cover save. Most expensive. TL AC Pred: + Strongest vs AV13 (same offence as dev's vs AV13 but more utlity/survivability). If only moves 6" Second best in survivability (long range av13). Good mobility for scoring. Can get a random explode, though not reliable. - Weak vs infantry, often hard to get los with both sponsons if only moving 6". Needs to be obscured 25% for cover save. Vulnerable vs assault. LasCannons suprisingly weak vs AV14 with the new veichle dmg table. (11% explode chanse on 6 shots). Rifle Dread: + Very strong vs AV 10-12. Strongest survivability (av12 and cover saves in terrain, strongest assault defense) Best ground unit vs flyers. Can tarpit. - Much less mobility than mech (although better than dev's). AP4 and no rending. Can't glance AV14. +Dev squad: The clear winner in offence per point, but lack survivability vs alot of matchups. Clear winner vs horde/blob lists. Clear winner vs MC (ap3) Also clear vs MEQ (that are not in cover). - The worst unit for scoring potential (mobility). Lowest surviabilty. Can't move and shoot (needs highground). Needs good terrain in deployment. Edit: LasCannon explode chance 6 shots: 6+ explode roll = 16,6% chance * penetrating hits, but somewhat less due to never reaching 100%. I dont know the formula but the percentages should be roughly correct. If any math wiz wants to give exact odds, please do AV14 Pens: 0,667 roughly 11% AV13 Pens: 1,333 roughly 18% AV12 Pens: 2 roughly 30% AV11 Pens: 2,667 roughly 40% Fixed HB Sponson, was at str6 vs av11/10 (now updated to str5) Added Melta vs av 14 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
knife&fork Posted July 8, 2014 Share Posted July 8, 2014 Autocannon on the pred is not twin-linked, only the lascannon is. Did you simply mislabel it or is TL factored into the equation? Otherwise great job Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Remtek Posted July 8, 2014 Author Share Posted July 8, 2014 Whops mislabled, the calculation is without twinlinked, fixed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Remtek Posted July 11, 2014 Author Share Posted July 11, 2014 Offensive efficiency score added for every unit, it's basically hull points removed divided by cost. The score does not really say which unit is best, due to many reasons, it just shows how much offensive power you gain per point vs. various armor values. I havent added explode chanse to this, only Melta and LC vs av14 but this is the formula: 1-(1-0,166)^1,5 LasCannon Formula 1-(1-0,333)^1,5 Melta Formula To modify it change two numbers: 0,166 is 16,6% or 1 out of 6, since melta is 5+ or 2 of 6 you put in 0,333 (33%) The number to the right is the amount of pens (1,5) Once you edit the formula just paste it into google for calculation and multiply by a 100 So for example if explode is 4+ (melta vs open topped) and you score 1 pen it would look like this: 1-(1-0,5)^1 multiply by 100 equals 50% chanse. http://bit.ly/1jkEC5l (google calc is fast and easy) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Remtek Posted August 7, 2014 Author Share Posted August 7, 2014 Storm Raven added, with and without bloodstrike missiles. Grey Knight's Rifledread added (Heresy!) See link at the top for info. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ASSASSINAWOKEN Posted August 7, 2014 Share Posted August 7, 2014 With the new 7th edition rules of any units scores a Devastator squad is a little better. A five marine unit won't last long, but a full 10 marine unit will in my opinion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chaplain Admetus Posted August 7, 2014 Share Posted August 7, 2014 For clarity, might be helpful to expand on the Devastator entry a bit. There's a lot of different options and some players mix and match. I personally feel that the 4ML devastator squad is criminally underrated as there's no army I can think of that lacks a good target for it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Remtek Posted August 7, 2014 Author Share Posted August 7, 2014 There should be 2 Dev entries one for ML one for LC. Yeah ML dev's are really strong, but will most likely increase to 15 points when the new codex arrives. LC will probably drop 10 points so both are 15. I didt add plasma cannon as it's somewhat tricky to calculate and mostly vs infantry. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paulochromis Posted August 8, 2014 Share Posted August 8, 2014 Nice work! Curious, though, as to why you would include the C:GK psyfledread over, say, the C:BA TLLC/ML dread. Other ranged options include the Typhoon and the double MM speeder, and maybe even Land Raider variants. A 10-man terminator squad with 2 cyclones has similar output to a 4ML dev squad (albeit at ~3x the cost) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Remtek Posted August 8, 2014 Author Share Posted August 8, 2014 Nice work! Curious, though, as to why you would include the C:GK psyfledread over, say, the C:BA TLLC/ML dread. Other ranged options include the Typhoon and the double MM speeder, and maybe even Land Raider variants. A 10-man terminator squad with 2 cyclones has similar output to a 4ML dev squad (albeit at ~3x the cost) I added the GK dread per request, while it's offensive score is amazing i would never ally with GK, their paint theme is just so sad! Added the TLLC/ML Dread but the point cost to dmg score is very low compared to all other units and that's without taking into account how it does vs light infantry. Melta is kinda tricky to figure out due to range (many rounds without 2d6 pen), when it is in range i would assume it will dominate in the AV14-12 category. Assault Cannon data is also slightly off due to 24" range, same can be said for Dev's as they can't move and shoot. The data assumes true line of sight and no range issues. In larger point games this can be less of an issue, but in 1000 point range i would assume mobility (getting los) has a slightly larger value. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Atrix Posted August 12, 2014 Share Posted August 12, 2014 Link to spreadsheet: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1tnnif7ii5gtbjGbKy36y2PydOSlWPhu6VaU7ICL4L3A/edit?pli=1#gid=0 /.../ Rifle Dread: + Very strong vs AV 10-12. Strongest survivability (av12 and cover saves in terrain, strongest assault defense) Best ground unit vs flyers. Can tarpit. - Much less mobility than mech (although better than dev's). AP4 and no rending. Can't glance AV14. /../ Do dreads get cover saves just for being in cover, i.e., not 25% rule? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Remtek Posted August 12, 2014 Author Share Posted August 12, 2014 Yeah, Walkers get cover for being inside terrain. Does not need to be obscured. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morticon Posted August 12, 2014 Share Posted August 12, 2014 in ruins, ya. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xenith Posted August 14, 2014 Share Posted August 14, 2014 There should be 2 Dev entries one for ML one for LC. Yeah ML dev's are really strong, but will most likely increase to 15 points when the new codex arrives. LC will probably drop 10 points so both are 15. I didt add plasma cannon as it's somewhat tricky to calculate and mostly vs infantry. Maybe, but the cost of each marine will drop by 2pts/model, and we wont be forced to take a sergeant, saving 20pts per 5man squad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Remtek Posted August 15, 2014 Author Share Posted August 15, 2014 Typo, i meant 20 points per LC, so with the new codex probably 150 for LC squad and 140 for ML squad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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