Adeptus Posted July 9, 2014 Share Posted July 9, 2014 I'll be using pure knights. None of those pansy Henchmen for me, just the armoured fist of the Knights of Titan! The list I'm thinking of using looks a little like this: ML 3 Librarian ML 1 Inquisitor in TDA with Psycannon (note: does this guy have a hammer or a sword? He gets a hammer when he upgrades to TDA, and a force sword when he upgrades to a psyker, so which one does he have in the end?) 10 Terminators with 2 Psycannon, various Nemesis weapons 10 man Strike Squad, 2 Psycannon and a Rhino Stormraven with TL Lascannon and TL Multimelta Dreadknight with Personal Teleporter and Greatsword The problem I'm seeing is that so many of their weapons out-range mine, their shooting is far superior to mine, and it's going to be very hard to get into combat with them. We're aiming for about 1,500 points, so I don't have much room to play with regards to delivery methods for my Terminators or other combat stuff. I can see my Dreadknight getting roasted by shooting before it gets into combat, and my Terminators waddling across the table trying to blat some Crisis suits with their psycannon and getting evaporated in return. Is there a way around this? Am I missing an obvious tactic to bring these guys down? Should I make some changes to my list? I have just about everything GK related, but not HEAPS of everything. I have a dakka dread to use, a unit of Purifiers, an interceptor squad, paladins, a landraider, etc. I think this is not a good match-up for the GK Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/293514-how-to-deal-with-the-farsight-8/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dread Posted July 9, 2014 Share Posted July 9, 2014 I like your way of thinking, mostly because that's how I think. Now as for the problem: Yes the DK can rip them apart in cc, psychics are not as good as they should be IMHO, Raven is a class act for sure but I think a landraider delivery system works better and never under estimate hammernators, yes Ini 1 but they can with stand most punishment delt to them. Strikes are always good and a rhino is good to help soak up unwanted shots at them in or beside it. Not sure on the Inquisitor tho, sorry. These are just from past experiences and just my opinion. Since your worried about the suits, also consider an interceptor squad with halbreds. Purgation with 4 psycannons dug in to a ruin or other terreign, don't have their great asteral aim anymore but... Hope this helps. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/293514-how-to-deal-with-the-farsight-8/#findComment-3740518 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adeptus Posted July 9, 2014 Author Share Posted July 9, 2014 Thanks. I've decided to take out the Raven and include a second NDK. I thought about taking a Landraider Crusader instead, but to make the most of it I'd have to combat squad my Terminators and I just don't think a 5 man squad is going to make it past the first turn A second NDK with a teleporter really puts the pressure on all those suits, and makes it much harder for him to stay out of combat range. It also means it will be much harder for him to focus fire, and attempting to kill the Dreadknights before they falcon punch his Riptide and Crisis suits to death means he has to practically ignore my Terminators, hopefully until it's too late. With any luck I'll pick up some good powers from the Sanctic table to improve their durability. Not terribly hopeful about the outcome, but I think I've got a chance. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/293514-how-to-deal-with-the-farsight-8/#findComment-3740530 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reclusiarch Darius Posted July 9, 2014 Share Posted July 9, 2014 Farsight Bomb is tough, no question. Lost a game last week to it My main piece of advice would be to swamp it in melee. 2x Dreadknights and some Interceptors would work wonders, especially if you multi-charge him. Coteaz is also handy attached to some Purifiers to shoot all the ablative drones off it when it lands (they usually roll with like 10-15 gun drones). Librarian with Telepathy can be amusing. 'Psychic Shriek' is very random, but it can kill Farsight with good rolls. 'Invisibility' is absurd and will make him rage pretty hard, as he can't nuke the unit you put it on (probably Purifiers). Don't take Terminators, you're too slow and you'll die to plasma/fusion before you ever make melee. Ravens are a bit of a risk, as he'll Intercept them with Missilesides, not to mention it relies on Reserve rolls (and you generally have about 2 turns to stomp the bomb, or it just rampages through your tiny army). Henchmen with plasma guns are pretty good too, and they're dirt-cheap. Something like; Psyker, 3x Acolytes w/plasma guns (52 points) Put 'Prescience' on them, start putting AP2 wounds into the Iridium 'O until he's dead. ML 1 Inquisitor in TDA with Psycannon (note: does this guy have a hammer or a sword? He gets a hammer when he upgrades to TDA, and a force sword when he upgrades to a psyker, so which one does he have in the end?) The FAQ clarified that he can choose to swap for a force sword, he doesn't have to. You should keep the hammer obviously. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/293514-how-to-deal-with-the-farsight-8/#findComment-3740539 Share on other sites More sharing options...
IndigoJack Posted July 9, 2014 Share Posted July 9, 2014 Is this a Farsight bomb, or the Farsight 8 (as in, Farsight + 7 IC named battlesuits)? Because that's over 1500pts for 21 models (13 of which are drones) and even in a pure knight list you should be able to outnumber them. And since it's unbound, you should be able to outscore them. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/293514-how-to-deal-with-the-farsight-8/#findComment-3740558 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adeptus Posted July 9, 2014 Author Share Posted July 9, 2014 Is this a Farsight bomb, or the Farsight 8 (as in, Farsight + 7 IC named battlesuits)? Because that's over 1500pts for 21 models (13 of which are drones) and even in a pure knight list you should be able to outnumber them. And since it's unbound, you should be able to outscore them. It's the Farsight 8. And yes, it will be an unbound list but if we're playing a Tactical Objectives game I don't see that mattering a lot, as he'll have the mobility to move to whatever objective he currently needs while I'll be waddling along in my TDA. I'd like to include some Interceptors but I don't know where I'd get the points from. I feel like everything else is too valuable. I only have a single Strike Squad in my collection, so I can't meet the basic troops requirements if I don't my Terminators, and I've found with Terminators you need to go big or go home. Anyway, the game is in less than an hour so I don't really have the time to change my list, I'll just have to hope for the best now Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/293514-how-to-deal-with-the-farsight-8/#findComment-3740566 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dread Posted July 9, 2014 Share Posted July 9, 2014 Good luck and let us know how it goes. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/293514-how-to-deal-with-the-farsight-8/#findComment-3740583 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adeptus Posted July 9, 2014 Author Share Posted July 9, 2014 Well, it went... ok I guess. I made a rookie mistake early on, deploying my two Dreadknights on my flanks with the hope of shunting behind his lines and putting the pressure on early. The idea was that if he tried to run away from the Dreadknights, he would have to run towards my Terminators/Strike Squad. What actually happened was slightly different. He won the first turn, and by the end of the second turn had killed both of my Dreadknights. I managed to shunt them where I wanted them, but they didn't live long enough to be at all useful. I mean, he got lucky managing to kill them both in one turn of shooting, but he didn't get very lucky. It wasn't a huge jump off the end of the bell curve. Had I put them together on one flank, there is no way he could have generated enough firepower to kill them both, meaning at least one of his suits would have been dead on my turn two, and at least one of my Dreadknights would have been alive that bit longer. I managed to roll Invisibility on my Terminators with attached Librarian and Inquisitor. So, that was cool. But with practically nothing else to shoot at (and a game that dragged on for seven turns) they were all killed by the end of the game. Had I kept at least one of the NDKs alive for a turn or two longer, the result would have different IMO as he only took my last wound with the last shot on the last turn. Going into turn seven we had a 3 all draw on Tactical Objectives. At the end of turn seven not only had I been tabled, but he'd scored 7 victory points. But still, it was a very close game. Would have been an easier game with henchmen, but I didn't take up a codex of Knights just to play mere mortals. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/293514-how-to-deal-with-the-farsight-8/#findComment-3740687 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dread Posted July 9, 2014 Share Posted July 9, 2014 Sounds brutal but to take it turn 7, that's something. I still think that pure can still win, haven't myself this edition cause I haven't field my GK but soon. (Insert evil laugh here) When I do, I will post win or lose. Hope fun was had in any case. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/293514-how-to-deal-with-the-farsight-8/#findComment-3741018 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grand Master Caloth Posted July 9, 2014 Share Posted July 9, 2014 Psydreads equal a dead suit each failed save... I know the drones make it a little harder, but not even the suits can out-range the dread Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/293514-how-to-deal-with-the-farsight-8/#findComment-3741019 Share on other sites More sharing options...
march10k Posted July 9, 2014 Share Posted July 9, 2014 The only good answer is massed leman russ demolishers! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/293514-how-to-deal-with-the-farsight-8/#findComment-3741063 Share on other sites More sharing options...
IndigoJack Posted July 10, 2014 Share Posted July 10, 2014 Psydreads equal a dead suit each failed save... I know the drones make it a little harder, but not even the suits can out-range the dread That's why I use storm bolters and psycannons to destroy the drones first, then use they psyflemen to kill suits. Also, if you can maneuver in such a way that you can't see the drones, but can see the suits, you never have to worry about the drones because you can't wound what you can't see. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/293514-how-to-deal-with-the-farsight-8/#findComment-3741356 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grand Master Caloth Posted July 10, 2014 Share Posted July 10, 2014 Depnds ifbthe drones still have the rule that allows the tau player tonallocate the wounds to them, representing their programing to protect Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/293514-how-to-deal-with-the-farsight-8/#findComment-3741755 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rurik the blessed Posted July 10, 2014 Share Posted July 10, 2014 The trick against Tau, is simple.... Incinerators... Tau's secret is the cover saves. put some Purifiers and burn them all. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/293514-how-to-deal-with-the-farsight-8/#findComment-3741767 Share on other sites More sharing options...
IndigoJack Posted July 10, 2014 Share Posted July 10, 2014 Depnds ifbthe drones still have the rule that allows the tau player tonallocate the wounds to them, representing their programing to protect They do not. There is a rule for crisis suit bodyguards like that, but drones can never shift their wounds. The trick against Tau, is simple.... Incinerators... Tau's secret is the cover saves. put some Purifiers and burn them all. That works against tau infantry, not so much against suits. A good tau list is going to have a lot of suits. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/293514-how-to-deal-with-the-farsight-8/#findComment-3741854 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reclusiarch Darius Posted July 10, 2014 Share Posted July 10, 2014 That works against tau infantry, not so much against suits. A good tau list is going to have a lot of suits. Pretty much. I mean yeah, Pathfinders and their Troop infantry hate incinerator, but battlesuits generally don't care (especially not Riptides or Broadsides). Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/293514-how-to-deal-with-the-farsight-8/#findComment-3741868 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adeptus Posted July 10, 2014 Author Share Posted July 10, 2014 Indeed. An army made up entirely of suits and drones would laugh at incinerators. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/293514-how-to-deal-with-the-farsight-8/#findComment-3742095 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grand Master Caloth Posted July 10, 2014 Share Posted July 10, 2014 Yes and no. They still hurt, they still force armor over cover (stealth suits in +2 cover.....) and forced saves equals wounds and dead. I recently played a too list and gunned down a whole crisis team and commander in one volley of my dread. Yay first blood, warlord, and kp in for easy wounds. Rofl (and really bad saving throws, which helps show my point) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/293514-how-to-deal-with-the-farsight-8/#findComment-3742098 Share on other sites More sharing options...
IndigoJack Posted July 11, 2014 Share Posted July 11, 2014 But the Farsight 8 doesn't have any stealth suits. It's 6 crisis suits a broadside, a riptide, and lots of drones (12 I think?) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/293514-how-to-deal-with-the-farsight-8/#findComment-3742160 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reclusiarch Darius Posted July 11, 2014 Share Posted July 11, 2014 Yes and no. They still hurt, they still force armor over cover (stealth suits in +2 cover.....) and forced saves equals wounds and dead. Yeah but nobody takes Stealth Suits, they're terrible. Crisis might lose one suit to an incinerator on bad rolls, but the Farsight Bomb runs an Iridium O to tank anti-infantry wounds for that exact reason. And Riptides laugh when you tickle them with incinerator. That said, incinerator would insta-BBQ the ablative drones, so its not entirely useless against the Bomb. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/293514-how-to-deal-with-the-farsight-8/#findComment-3742182 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grand Master Caloth Posted July 11, 2014 Share Posted July 11, 2014 Maybe not in the bomb, but I know several people in my area who love abd use stealth suits to good effect. The number of shots the produce is substantial Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/293514-how-to-deal-with-the-farsight-8/#findComment-3742297 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reclusiarch Darius Posted July 11, 2014 Share Posted July 11, 2014 Maybe not in the bomb, but I know several people in my area who love abd use stealth suits to good effect. The number of shots the produce is substantial Only S5 though. And they fold instantly in melee, on a unit that has to get within 18" to be effective. I play Tau and I can tell you Stealths have never been viable. Theyr'e fun, and good spoilers, but they die way too easily (T3 is a big deal). Even heavy flamer scares them off. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/293514-how-to-deal-with-the-farsight-8/#findComment-3742483 Share on other sites More sharing options...
march10k Posted July 11, 2014 Share Posted July 11, 2014 I don't think stealth suits are terrible, it's just that crisis suits and broadsides are better. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/293514-how-to-deal-with-the-farsight-8/#findComment-3742935 Share on other sites More sharing options...
IndigoJack Posted July 12, 2014 Share Posted July 12, 2014 I don't think stealth suits are terrible, it's just that crisis suits and broadsides are better. Pretty much this. Stealth suits have a few things going for them (small and easy to hide, fast, decent armament), but fall in to the problem that a lot of units in the tau codex have; There's something that does the better and more efficiently. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/293514-how-to-deal-with-the-farsight-8/#findComment-3743129 Share on other sites More sharing options...
march10k Posted July 12, 2014 Share Posted July 12, 2014 Well...I see stealth suits as having three roles, and only two of them are done better by other units. First, melta....yeah, crisis does it better. Second, markerlights. Pathfinders are cheaper, but only until they die on turn two. Stealth Marker Teams are expensive, but insanely hard to kill if you park them in cover for a 2++ with a few bonus gun drones to eat pain. That's really better than any other source of markerlights, although it is expensive. And of course the third role is simply unkillable S5 shooting. There are literally tons of potential sources of S5 shooting in C:TAU, but people tend to skimp on them and go for the sexy choices instead. All that S5 dakka isn't doing anyone any good sitting on the pages of the codex, it doesn't count unless it's on the table. And a stealth team lurking in some midfield cover is annoying for the enemy to deal with and painful if he doesn't. What I was really trying to say is not that other units do the job of stealth suits better, I was saying that competition for points and elites FOC slots is so fierce that there's always a better option for tau, although most codexes would love to have stealth suits as an elites choice. Tau are blessed with three EXCELLENT options for elites (and most codexes are lucky to have just one), it just happens that stealths are the least excellent. So I don't think it's fair to say anything negative about them, they're great, it's just that crisis teams and riptides are even better. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/293514-how-to-deal-with-the-farsight-8/#findComment-3743352 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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