Blood Angel to be main character in Master of Mankind

[Inquisitor Kravin]

I quizzed A D-B on MoM pretty thoroughly at the Heresy Weekender. Unfortunately my extensive write up disappeared when the B&C went down and the back ups were corrupted - I blame the Ordo Chronos! It would take a while to re-write it all but I may have a go. In short, MoM sounds like it's going to be the best book of the series yet. If we can have the synopsis given at the weekender written on a par with The First Heretic and Betrayer then the excitement of all Heresy fans will tear the fabric of reality and create the Eye of Terror 28 millenia early!

 

Someone mentioned an anonymous legion A D-B didn't like. Aaron told me that he didn't wish to write about Alpha Legion. It wasn't that he disliked them, it was just a question of writing style, that they didn't appeal to him. I can see that. If you look at the way he handles characters and their personal arcs it doesn't really mesh with the way that people like Dan Abnett and Rob Sanders write the Alpha Legion where it tends to be from an outsider's perspective observing them and the way that they are effectively interchangeable. I'm not saying he couldn't, I'm sure he would make them awesome, but other legions hold more appeal for him.

[A D-B]

Someone mentioned an anonymous legion A D-B didn't like. Aaron told me that he didn't wish to write about Alpha Legion. It wasn't that he disliked them, it was just a question of writing style, that they didn't appeal to him. I can see that. If you look at the way he handles characters and their personal arcs it doesn't really mesh with the way that people like Dan Abnett and Rob Sanders write the Alpha Legion where it tends to be from an outsider's perspective observing them and the way that they are effectively interchangeable. I'm not saying he couldn't, I'm sure he would make them awesome, but other legions hold more appeal for him.

 

Kinda, sorta.

 

This will be long, and I apologise in advance. I've been reluctant to talk about this in too much detail in the past because it's too easily taken as criticism against other authors' work and their interpretations of the license, which genuinely isn't the case. If I dislike something, I either say so outright and get in trouble for it (bad Aaron, bad) or, much more reasonably, I say nothing at all. Everyone's got stuff they don't like. No big deal.

 

But "the one Legion I don't like" thing has found a lot more tread with the fandom than I realised it would, so I'll answer it here to have something definitive to link back to in the future. This may take some explaining and context-padding, so bear with me.

 

First off, specific to Kravin's reply, I'm very much into narratives of outsiders looking in - as I've mentioned a few times when discussing historical fiction and the forthcoming Black Legion series. All of the best (or at least, my favourite) historical fiction isn't from the point of view of the most famous character; it's from the point of view of someone at his or her right hand - deeply involved with them, close by at all the major moments, trusted as an intimate confidante, and so on. Derfel Cadarn is 'King' Arthur's champion, in The Winter King and the Warlord Chronicles. Xeones is a Spartan squire at Thermopylae, rather than in the phalanx himself, in Gates of Fire. Those are both breathtaking depictions, and I can't recommend them enough. 

 

Similarly, Iskandar Khayon is (eventually) Abaddon's closest companion in the Black Legion series, and one of the Despoiler's most trusted warlords. It's a narrative theme I love to read and love to write. That said, it's not always appropriate or a preferred style depending on the story - but I still show flashes of it pretty often, as most of my reviews note regarding 'outsider' human characters with Space Marines and Chaos Marines. Septimus and Octavia in the Night Lords series are the obvious ones, but to a lesser extent there's also Cyrene in the Horus Heresy, and Andrej in Helsreach and Armageddon, and so on.

 

I thought the same trope worked very well in Prospero Burns, and it's no secret that Legion is my fave Horus Heresy novel - though, recently, Legion was eclipsed as my favourite overall Horus Heresy fiction by Honour to the Dead.

 

But here's the score.

 

I like every Legion. I appreciate that will earn me no points and that people like to wear their clan colours, but I don't care. I love every Legion, Chapter, faction, and whatever else in 40K, and I love it enough to devote my adult life to writing about it and thinking about it and talking about it 12+ hours a day. It's not a contest here, and I respect anyone who collects an army for their dedication and effort and their lifetime fandom, but I live and breathe this stuff as much as anyone else, and likely just a little more than most, given it's what I choose to do with my career as well as my free time. So when I say "I like every faction", I'm not being a corporate shill. I do like every faction. I find it monumentally difficult to pick favourites, and I'm always slightly amazed that anyone does it so easily. Like... someone will just have 10,000 points of Ultramarines, or say without any difficulty that they're "a Chaos Marine player". Because I like everything, read everything, and have loved it for 25+ years, narrowing it down in terms of hobby has always been an absolute nightmare. My preferred tactic in any campaign (and I always play in campaigns) is to choose last and take whatever's left over, sparing myself the decision. The fact I've got even one of my Angels Numinous painted is down to John French constantly cracking his whip and keeping me focused by the fact we're writing our Chapters' (and Knight House's) lore together.

 

At an absolute push (and even this took me years to admit publically, to avoid nonsensical accusations of bias) I'd say nostalgia has me liking the Blood Angels and Space Wolves the micro-est, tiniest, littlest amount more than the others, but they're not my favourites in the way a lifelong Ultramarine player will say the Ultramarines are his or her favourites. Nostalgia is a powerful lure, but I don't necessarily think either of those Legions are better or more interesting than the others. I write about Space Marines all the time, but I wouldn't even say they're my fave aspect of Warhammer 40,000. Again, at an absolute push, that would probably be the Eldar - specifically of the craftworld and corsair variety. And even then, largely through original exposure; ask me on any other day and it'd be genestealer cults or Chaos Marine sorcerers or the way Ian Watson shows the Imperium in The Inquisition War, or or or...

 

So, how does this relate to the Alpha Legion and the "one Legion I don't like"? 

 

I like the Alpha Legion in 40K. I loved the Alpha Legion's original Index Astartes article. The mystery, the doubt, the vagueness and possibility. I really like Alan's write-up about them in the Forge World books, too. I like all the "This is a lie" stuff and the suggestions of what may or may not be true. I'm all over that. And I think Legion was not only a fantastic Horus Heresy novel, but it was sweet, juicy justice for the Alpha Legion, because for every answer it gave, it asked six other questions. I left the book knowing a little more, yet not knowing what was true, and I loved seeing the suggestions of connective tissue between Legion and the established 40K lore of the Alpha Legion as a mysterious, awesome bridge between Then and Now.

 

Like a lot of 40K fans, I like mystery. Any writing or exploration of the lore will peel back some of the layers and codify the mystery, but I think that suits some factions more than others, and, crucially, there are degrees of explanation. 

 

Legion gave glimpses behind the curtain, and intriguing flashes that cleverly suggested much while showing little. The mind filled in the blanks, enjoyed the possibilities, and wondered just what was really true. I loved that.

 

I wonder at the risk of them looking "too" competent now, especially compared with other Legions, and the unfathomable mystery of their function in the Dark Millennium will always be more interesting to me than the idea of their two primarchs having a civil war over ideology. That's not to say the idea's a bad one - it's cool as heck and a lot of people love the 30K Alpha Legion, as evidenced by their reception and the number of armies out there - but it's not necessarily to my taste. Similarly, I'm sure there are writers that wanted to deal with the Night Lords, but find my portrayal too X or too Y and restrictive for them (though, I'll note, I'm careful to make most of my stories small-scale/about one small group, for that very reason). But it's just what happens when you work in a shared IP, even in one where there are very few objective truths.  

 

So, essentially, the reason I wouldn't want to write about them now is that they're different enough from the original lore that I liked, that I'd struggle to tell an interesting story with them, or be otherwise enthused at the prospect. I understand the appeal of a 'black ops' Legion, and the idea is a great one. But they get away with so, so much, that I just don't think I could tell a realistic or compelling story if I followed their current vibe. One Legion absolutely shrouded in mystery appeals to me. A Legion that can infiltrate whatever they want, whenever they want, with seeming impunity; with their plans always succeeding or otherwise being impenetrable, appeals to me a bit less. And that's what they are now. Happily enough, it's something the overwhleming majority of fans love, so we're all good.

 

The beauty of the IP is that they can also be whatever else they're written as (such as their 40K incarnation), but at this stage I think their 30K character is pretty heavily set, so to show another perspective probably wouldn't go down well, and I'm not hugely interested in risking it and/or spending time on that instead of stories I'd rather tell. 

 

/end insanely long and tedious explanation.

[Captain Semper]

I share your sentiment on AL - the black ops theme is great and make them stand apart, but their success rate makes them a bit less believable...

 

I know you say you don't have a preferred faction in the 40k Universe but I think the way to decide (even if you don't care to share for obvious reasons) is to ask the age-old question that every role-playing gamer asks himself: If I were to live in the 40k Universe and I could be anybody, who would I rather be? At the darkness of night, right before you sleep, you know in your heart there can be only one answer and you know what that answer is...  :D

 

*puts on his winged helmet and exits the room, robes flowing*

[A D-B]

I share your sentiment on AL - the black ops theme is great and make them stand apart, but their success rate makes them a bit less believable...

I know you say you don't have a preferred faction in the 40k Universe but I think the way to decide (even if you don't care to share for obvious reasons) is to ask the age-old question that every role-playing gamer asks himself: If I were to live in the 40k Universe and I could be anybody, who would I rather be? At the darkness of night, right before you sleep, you know in your heart there can be only one answer and you know what that answer is...

*puts on his winged helmet and exits the room, robes flowing*

Literally no doubt, no hesitation, no contest.

[Captain Semper]

As long as your dream alter ego is not a scavvy... :P

[Emperor's Furor]

I totally agree, that's the reason why I don't like them as much as I used to.

[Augustus]

Exactly. Set about reclaiming the old broken down technology. Studying the past etc.

[Iron Hands Fanatic]

Wow A D-B, that was so insightful and eloquent - its almost like you could be paid to write for a living

Its interesting, because that adoration for most - if not all - factions within the setting / the inability to choose a 'favourite' seems to me to be more prevalent than diehard loyalty to one singular faction.

Just look at the number of forums on the B&C asking for advice on selecting a faction to collect, and the amount of members who openly discuss the difficulty they have sustaining focus on one army when there are so many awesome options available (although I am by no means suggesting our members typify 40k fans). Part of the reason for this is the capacity for every single fan to put a unique spin on the faction in question - allowed for by the vagueness you mentioned A D-B (on a side note, I completely agree with the amazing degree Alan Bligh managed to expand upon the AL without really 'codifying the mystery' in Extermination).

Incidentally, I also find that the suggestion of some degree of supremacy over similar factions is the only real thing that puts me off. However, I don't really apply that so much to the Alpha Legion, because I tend to regard all content on the Legions outside the Forge World Horus Heresy series as considerably more subjective, and more biased - and the XX^th Legion section in Extermination makes certain to point out the Legion's weaknesses in certain areas. However, the one Legion I'm not as fond of as the others (as, in I'd find it difficult to create distinctive background considering the overall 'supremacy' theme) is the Space Wolves, due to the whole 'executioners' fiasco. That said, I'm sure when Inferno is released, all my doubts will be put aside - but for the moment, there is no canon on the Space Wolves as a Legion really apart from the BL books, and with the executioners aspect effectively raising them above the other Legions, I'm left with a certain amount of distaste (no surprise that I'm a big fan of your suggestions that the executioner moniker is self-appointed).

Now all this talk of loving all factions may appear a touch hypocritical considering my obvious personal leanings, but I still have extreme difficulty in focusing on a particular faction (my recent forays into making stuff for the Iron Warriors, White Scars, Mechanicum & Alpha Legion in my HH designs thread are prime examples of this). Part of the reason I was initially drawn to the Iron Hands is because they were the least expanded upon 1st founding Chapter - most players didn't even know they were one of the original Legions - and that vagueness allowed for more variety between armies, whilst they were important enough that they shouldn't suffer any major retcons (although I was proven wrong - so, so wrong - by a recent supplement of great infamy).

In all honesty, I've never been drawn to the Iron Hands because I could see myself as one of them (if anything that'd be Raven Guard, maybe KSons).

It was just really simple - Space Marines are really cool, right? Well, one day I opened an issue of White Dwarf, had a look at the new releases, and there was a Space Marine kit coming out. Except these weren't any old Space Marines - these were CYBORG FREAKIN' SPACE MARINES. And my soul was sold for eternity.

[Perrin]

Kind of slightly off-topic, but have to disagree slightly with ADB about the historical fiction thing. I love the whole "outside-looking-in" thing, but Conn Iggulden's Conqueror series (from the POV of Genghis Khan) is one of the best series of novels I have ever read. Ever.

 

 

Maybe I'm missing something but do the Alpha Legion win that often? I get the point in that we haven't seen their infiltration schemes fail yet, but to my knowledge we've only seen them succeed a couple of times. Legion is against non-Imperium and could be argued they didn't win, The Serpent Beneath is against themselves and doesn't involve counter-agent infiltration as it were, so the only instances I can think of is Deliverance Lost and the short story about the World Eater battle barge above Isstvan. Scars could be argued as a failure for the Alpha Legion, as the Khan saw through the blockade charade, but I do wonder whether it was a double-bluff and they wanted him to charge through and escape...

[Leif Bearclaw]

Kind of slightly off-topic, but have to disagree slightly with ADB about the historical fiction thing. I love the whole "outside-looking-in" thing, but Conn Iggulden's Conqueror series (from the POV of Genghis Khan) is one of the best series of novels I have ever read. Ever.

 

 

Maybe I'm missing something but do the Alpha Legion win that often? I get the point in that we haven't seen their infiltration schemes fail yet, but to my knowledge we've only seen them succeed a couple of times. Legion is against non-Imperium and could be argued they didn't win, The Serpent Beneath is against themselves and doesn't involve counter-agent infiltration as it were, so the only instances I can think of is Deliverance Lost and the short story about the World Eater battle barge above Isstvan. Scars could be argued as a failure for the Alpha Legion, as the Khan saw through the blockade charade, but I do wonder whether it was a double-bluff and they wanted him to charge through and escape...

It probably doesn't help that Deliverance Lost seems to have been pretty poorly received, in addition to crazy levels of 'just as planned' for the AL. Deservedly from what I understand. Changing the fluff from Corax making the sacrifice of degrading his gene-seed, and endangering the long-term viability of his gene-line in his drive to not fail again to 'the Alpha Legion infiltrate the Raven Guard and wreck their most precious project' was a very poor decision and reeks of the dreaded 'Mary Sue' far more than PB does for the Wolves imo (the later I've said before I liked, because the executioner thing explained why Russ was sent to Prospero, a 'mistake' on the big E's part that had always bothered me).

 

Then there's Legion, which while I enjoyed it at the time, has fallen in my estimation somewhat since. There's a certain 'supremacy' idea lurking behind the Cabal's 'the AL must tip the war in Horus' favour, because reasons' shtick, they're the special Legion whose role is so vital to the Heresy's outcome. But then I tend to subscribe to the view that the Cabal are actually evil, if not out and out Chaos worshippers, and were lying through their teeth to Alpharius. But again, I preferred the hubris and 'maybe now you'll take us seriously' motivation for treachery from the IA article to the 'actually following the Emperor's goals by waging war on him' motivation in the HH series. 

[Kol Saresk]

Perrin: While yes, they have had few survivors, they have achieved every single goal they have set out to do. Legion was about making contact with the Cabal and dicovering why they were being contacted. Deliverance Lost was about claiming the genetech. Serpent Beneath wa about destroying the Tenebrae Installation. Heck, even them fighting the Wolves in Scars was about delaying Russ from helping the V Legion, not beating him.

 

The only time they haven't succeeded is Guilliman's widely acclaimed and infamous assassination attempt.

 

EDIT: And that's assuming it was supposed to be an assassination attempt.

[Wade Garrett]

The only time they haven't succeeded is Guilliman's widely acclaimed and infamous assassination attempt.

 

EDIT: And that's assuming it was supposed to be an assassination attempt.

"In retrospect, trying to have the team fire their bolters at Roboute in a pattern which would spell out the secret message, Bro, take your Legion to Terra and garrison the palace, love Alf in Morse Code was a bit overly convoluted."

 

@ADB

Something I've been wondering about Master of Mankind is if one of the perspectives we'll see the Emperor from will be that of a Sister of Silence. How does a blind person perceive the sun, sort of thing.

[mc warhammer]

I haven't touched Deliverence yet, but I can imagine the AL's 30k success can be attributed to the fact nobody has caught up to them yet. The AL aren't superior- just that the loyal legions aren't used to their particular brand of warfare. Not only that but they had an insider's tip way before the heresy began. That helps any legion (certainly did for the Word Bearers). Sooner or later the loyalists will catch up.

 

As for the Cabal seeing the AL as super special chosen ones- didn't they attempt to sway another legion first? From memory it was the DA, another legion that likes secrecy.

 

For my money, I loved the deviation from the AL index astartes fiction to the depiction in Legion- it was a believable revelation that the 30k AL were the opposite of the childishishly impractical legion suffering ridiculously on-the-nose youngest-sibling-syndrome that 40k believes in. It was an even more delicious thought to me that it might have been the legion themselves responsible for purposefully spreading that infantile image to the imperium at large.

[Kol Saresk]

Deliverance Lost can best be summarized by the Alpha Legion doing exavtly what is supposed to be their forté and screwing it up so bad that the only reason nobody noticed until it was too late was because of "Post Traumatic Stress Disorder". Or in polite terms, the Raven Guar were written to literally ignore every single tell sign that something was wrong.

[Emperor's Furor]

Yeah, even Corax lists who he suspected at the end, bar the guy who you read the alpha legion perspective through, for example he points out the raven guard have never seen the phalanx before but one of his marines prior to landing on Terra said he had. Should of sent alarm bells ticking. 

 

Deliverance lost seemed a bit off but I still enjoy Gav's portrayal of the Raven Guard, I just didn't particularly enjoy the added Alpha Legion factor which I assume was discussed in the meetings and decided to add to their story.

[WGXH]

I share your sentiment on AL - the black ops theme is great and make them stand apart, but their success rate makes them a bit less believable...

I know you say you don't have a preferred faction in the 40k Universe but I think the way to decide (even if you don't care to share for obvious reasons) is to ask the age-old question that every role-playing gamer asks himself: If I were to live in the 40k Universe and I could be anybody, who would I rather be? At the darkness of night, right before you sleep, you know in your heart there can be only one answer and you know what that answer is...

*puts on his winged helmet and exits the room, robes flowing*

Literally no doubt, no hesitation, no contest.

Let's dial this back a moment here. out of literally EVERYTHING in warhammer to be, you would choose something from Necromunda?

Mad props, man. I'd want to be Bro-Cap Tycho so I could Judo-chop a land raider to death before I bite it.

[A D-B]

I share your sentiment on AL - the black ops theme is great and make them stand apart, but their success rate makes them a bit less believable...

I know you say you don't have a preferred faction in the 40k Universe but I think the way to decide (even if you don't care to share for obvious reasons) is to ask the age-old question that every role-playing gamer asks himself: If I were to live in the 40k Universe and I could be anybody, who would I rather be? At the darkness of night, right before you sleep, you know in your heart there can be only one answer and you know what that answer is...

*puts on his winged helmet and exits the room, robes flowing*

Literally no doubt, no hesitation, no contest.

Let's dial this back a moment here. out of literally EVERYTHING in warhammer to be, you would choose something from Necromunda?

Mad props, man. I'd want to be Bro-Cap Tycho so I could Judo-chop a land raider to death before I bite it.

My views on war run towards the less ardent side, and I don't have the temperament to deal with actual discipline, so I'd probably not enjoy being a Space Marine. I'd be Aspirant #346843632 who died sixteen seconds into the first trial.

Kind of slightly off-topic, but have to disagree slightly with ADB about the historical fiction thing. I love the whole "outside-looking-in" thing, but Conn Iggulden's Conqueror series (from the POV of Genghis Khan) is one of the best series of novels I have ever read. Ever.

They're brilliant, no doubt there. Not my faves, but still awesome.

Wow A D-B, that was so insightful and eloquent - its almost like you could be paid to write for a living

Its interesting, because that adoration for most - if not all - factions within the setting / the inability to choose a 'favourite' seems to me to be more prevalent than diehard loyalty to one singular faction.

Just look at the number of forums on the B&C asking for advice on selecting a faction to collect, and the amount of members who openly discuss the difficulty they have sustaining focus on one army when there are so many awesome options available (although I am by no means suggesting our members typify 40k fans). Part of the reason for this is the capacity for every single fan to put a unique spin on the faction in question - allowed for by the vagueness you mentioned A D-B (on a side note, I completely agree with the amazing degree Alan Bligh managed to expand upon the AL without really 'codifying the mystery' in Extermination).

I concur, both about how cool it is when people have trouble choosing a Legion (I always take that as a positive, rather than an indecisive negative), as well as Alan's treatment of the Alpha Legion in the rulebooks. You can see why I was reluctant to mention any of it, though; the last thing I want to convey is a disappointment in Gav/Rob/Anyone else's portrayal of the Alpha Legion. I don't even want to subtly suggest that I lean that way, because I don't.

[depthcharge12]

 

 

 

I share your sentiment on AL - the black ops theme is great and make them stand apart, but their success rate makes them a bit less believable...

 

I know you say you don't have a preferred faction in the 40k Universe but I think the way to decide (even if you don't care to share for obvious reasons) is to ask the age-old question that every role-playing gamer asks himself: If I were to live in the 40k Universe and I could be anybody, who would I rather be? At the darkness of night, right before you sleep, you know in your heart there can be only one answer and you know what that answer is...  :D

 

*puts on his winged helmet and exits the room, robes flowing*

 

 

Literally no doubt, no hesitation, no contest.

 

Let's dial this back a moment here. out of literally EVERYTHING in warhammer to be, you would choose something from Necromunda?

 

Mad props, man. I'd want to be Bro-Cap Tycho so I could Judo-chop a land raider to death before I bite it.

 

My views on war run towards the less ardent side, and I don't have the temperament to deal with actual discipline, so I'd probably not enjoy being a Space Marine. I'd be Aspirant #346843632 who died sixteen seconds into the first trial.

 

Correction:

 

You'd be Record Maintenance Servitor #346843632

 

:D

[Kol Saresk]

 

 

 

 

I share your sentiment on AL - the black ops theme is great and make them stand apart, but their success rate makes them a bit less believable...

 

I know you say you don't have a preferred faction in the 40k Universe but I think the way to decide (even if you don't care to share for obvious reasons) is to ask the age-old question that every role-playing gamer asks himself: If I were to live in the 40k Universe and I could be anybody, who would I rather be? At the darkness of night, right before you sleep, you know in your heart there can be only one answer and you know what that answer is... :D

 

*puts on his winged helmet and exits the room, robes flowing*

 

Literally no doubt, no hesitation, no contest.

Let's dial this back a moment here. out of literally EVERYTHING in warhammer to be, you would choose something from Necromunda?

 

Mad props, man. I'd want to be Bro-Cap Tycho so I could Judo-chop a land raider to death before I bite it.

My views on war run towards the less ardent side, and I don't have the temperament to deal with actual discipline, so I'd probably not enjoy being a Space Marine. I'd be Aspirant #346843632 who died sixteen seconds into the first trial.

Correction:

 

You'd be Record Maintenance Servitor #346843632

 

:D

Isn't that the servitor they attach bombs to in order to censure entire city-blocks of the librarium at a time?

[b1soul]

Kind of slightly off-topic, but have to disagree slightly with ADB about the historical fiction thing. I love the whole "outside-looking-in" thing, but Conn Iggulden's Conqueror series (from the POV of Genghis Khan) is one of the best series of novels I have ever read. Ever.

 

I enjoyed them but I think the series started falling off after the third book. Iggulden's prose is also a little on the bland side IMO. I would say the series is solid and mostly enjoyable. I admit that I'm a picky reader 

 

Scars could be argued as a failure for the Alpha Legion, as the Khan saw through the blockade charade, but I do wonder whether it was a double-bluff and they wanted him to charge through and escape...

 

I read it as a double-bluff with the AL successfully enticing the Khan to charge through. That seems to be more in line with how BL has been handling the AL as of late 

 

 

 

But "the one Legion I don't like" thing has found a lot more tread with the fandom than I realised it would, so I'll answer it here to have something definitive to link back to in the future. This may take some explaining and context-padding, so bear with me.

 

I like every Legion. I appreciate that will earn me no points and that people like to wear their clan colours, but I don't care. I love every Legion, Chapter, faction, and whatever else in 40K, and I love it enough to devote my adult life to writing about it and thinking about it and talking about it 12+ hours a day. 

 

At an absolute push (and even this took me years to admit publically, to avoid nonsensical accusations of bias) I'd say nostalgia has me liking the Blood Angels and Space Wolves the micro-est, tiniest, littlest amount more than the others

 

So, how does this relate to the Alpha Legion and the "one Legion I don't like"? 

 

 

I wonder at the risk of them looking "too" competent now

 

One Legion absolutely shrouded in mystery appeals to me. A Legion that can infiltrate whatever they want, whenever they want, with seeming impunity; with their plans always succeeding or otherwise being impenetrable, appeals to me a bit less. And that's what they are now. Happily enough, it's something the overwhleming majority of fans love, so we're all good.

 

Hmm...I never thought the "there's only one legion I'm not too crazy about" statement was a reference to the Alpha Legion. I was always under the impression that Aaron didn't fancy the White Scars...a rather baseless hunch of mine.   

[Kol Saresk]

The whole blockade was meant to keep the V Legion from helping the Wolves. Since the White Scars did not go to help the Wolves, the objective was reached, albeit not through the intended means.

[Stonerhino]

I thought it was more that the Alphas wanted to see where the Scar's loyalties lay.  Basically to let the Scars hear both side's request then watch how the Scars react to the conflicting information.  That way they could include them in their plots within plots.  Because when you are scheamers on the Alpha Legion's level any unknowns must become knowns.  Even known unknowns is to much of a gamble.

[Jarl Kjaran Coldheart]

are we seriously trying to figure out the AL's mission?

 

I doubt anybody knows.

I doubt they know.

 

WLK

[Inquisitor Kravin]

That is what I get for posting hurriedly when I'm meant to be working because, as yet, I've not managed to to get a job that allows me to devote my career to thinking about this stuff as well as doing it in my free time! It appears I missed the mark but my stray shot drew out the big man himself (I'm so used to seeing that face peeping out from under the beanie hat in passport photo sized author photographs that when I met him in person he did seem big. Those event brochures ought to have a warning saying, "Objects in this picture may be larger than they appear").

 

Of course if I was Alpha Legion it would be Just As Planned.

 

@A D-B. Thanks for the very thorough response. I didn't mean to suggest that you didn't like the outsider perspective as a literary device. I was referencing your works that I like (personal bias therefore) where we see Lorgar, Argel Tal, Khârn etc. from very personal perspectives and we see how the conflict between duty and conscience gradually sees them slide into darkness. Argel Tal hates the truth of Chaos, I think he says as much to someone, but as he tells Khârn in Butcher's Nails, "I don't care about honour Khârn, all I care about is the truth." For me Cyrene is a character who happens to be non-astartes rather than a character who is there to provide a non-astartes view of the astartes.

 

Alpha Legion in 30k suffer a bit from a lack of personal development which is why I think that the stories have a different style from your own HH contributions. In my own fan fiction I've explored what it is like for a member of the Alpha Legion, the toll that the constant deception, shifting "truth", operational expendability etc. take. It devolves into paranoia and madness really. It's very non-Black Library though. Showing Alpha Legion like that would be like a Bond film showing James Bond suffering from a host of STIs and crippled by alcoholism. AL are, for now, suave masters of their craft.

 

Interesting that you like Honour To The Dead so much. For me it wouldn't even make it into a top ten. Obviously everyone's tastes vary but I'm curious as to what you liked so much.

 

I think as others have said most fans like most factions. I'm one of those who hasn't been able to commit to a Legion for painting and modelling purposes. Someone suggested I start by deciding which ones I didn't want to do. For me that only narrowed down the field from 18 to 14.

 

Great to see another mention of the Inquisition War. I was excited during our discussion about Master of Mankind when I raised the Draco books and found that we had similar views on various aspects of them.

I agree that the Alpha Legion seem potentially too competent but I like to justify it by imagining that that is only because their elite units are dedicated to eradicating all evidence and witnesses to the operations that failed, including the legionaries that failed - very supervillain like: "You have failed me for the last time Alpharius and Alpharius," said Alpharius before dropping them into the tank of catachan piranha. Okay, hopefully not that cheesy.

 

I thought Alpha Legion were great from the moment I opened WD273 and read their Index Astartes article and I built a big army of them with extensive background for all the elements of the army. Years later I read Legion and realised that I had choose between ignoring a very cool book or retconning huge swathes of my army and conversion reasons. Luckily I then realised that I could keep both and explain away any contradictions as misinformation.

 

@WGXH I would hope to be a scribe on a nice quiet backwater world in Ultramar whose duties gave him very occasional opportunities for space travel and meeting space marines but as little chance as possible of horrible death at the hands/claws/tentacles of xenos/mutants/heretics/the Inquisition. Any attempt to join the Ultramarines would see me reduced to a servitor or mangled corpse on day 1, maybe day 2 if day 1 was just a friendly meet and greet session.

 

[Aegnor]

It would be extraordinarily difficult to write a novel with an Alpha Legion member as a central point of view, without damaging one of the main points of interest for the new (relatively, been many years now since Legion lobbed) fluff about them. That is, just what exactly are the AL really up to, and why?

 

Actually, no, I'll be more specific. You could write a story from a grunt's eye view if you assumed that they are largely kept in the dark about why they're doing the things they do. That could be quite an interesting tale of frustration warring with devotion and duty. But also kinda contrary to the whole "we don't rely on central guidance, cut off our head and two more grow" idea.

 

Telling a story from the perspective of someone who *should* know what the hell they're doing and why would be very challenging. I think Rob Sanders did just about as much as was possible in that regard in The Serpent Beneath. If you do too much more than that, it's very easy to fall from being mysterious and intriguing to just passing off the reader because the narrative as conveyed is obviously overly selective in terms of what is going on. Could be done, but would be a massive challenge.