thousand sons and the new psychic phase

[Castigator]

 

Which doesn't over-ride how chaos generates psychic powers on page 70.

so your saying that we only generate powers like on pg 70? That we ignore the generate powers section of the BRB? That we dont get Chaos Focus, because its not in the generating powers section of the chaos codex?

 

 

I'm saying that nothing in the Codex or the rulebook over-rides the rule that a Sorceror with a mark of Chaos must roll on its patron's psychic power table. Chaos Focus doesn't replace this rule, it merely adds to it.

[Sception]

I'm saying that nothing in the Codex or the rulebook over-rides the rule that a Sorceror with a mark of Chaos must roll on its patron's psychic power table. Chaos Focus doesn't replace this rule, it merely adds to it.

This is my reading as well, though I understand arguments to the contrary. Though I would roll one power on the god table, in addition to the chaos focus primaris, with my own aligned sorcerers as per my reading of the rules (or more likely just avoid aligned sorcerers altogether), I wouldn't object to an opponent playing it the other way.

 

It really warrants official clarification regardless.

[Castigator]

To play the other way would be to say that Chaos Focus would count as rolling on the patron's powers table, if that was the case, it would mean that a level 1 Sorceror could never roll on its patron's table

[brother_contagion]

To play the other way would be to say that Chaos Focus would count as rolling on the patron's powers table, if that was the case, it would mean that a level 1 Sorceror could never roll on its patron's table

No because its a Focus, BRB states psykers with a Mark of Chaos get their Mark's primaris in addition to other spells it knows. I see the argument for both sides as well now that it has been discussed.

[Sception]

Either the focus does count as generating a power, in which case a level one aligned sorcerer could never roll on their gods table because if they did they'd have 'generated more than half of their powers' from the table, or it doesn't count as generating a power, in which case aligned sorcerers would be required to roll at least one power on the gods table in addition to the focus power.

 

What should happen is that the limits on god powers for aligned sorcerers should be removed altogether, apart from the rulebook's chaos focus rule.  If a level three sorcerer wants guaranteed access to the entire lore of their god, then so be it.  I mean, what would that hurt?  they aren't exactly good lores anyway.  And if a thousand sons champ wants to roll on telepathy (or, hell, divination), what would that hurt?  I mean, they'd still be a terrible unit.

 

But what should be and what is have nothing to do with each other when it comes to the rules for CSMs.

 

With chaos focus as it is, I hope the next time we get a book that GW just does away with aligned lores altogether apart from just the one primeris per alignment for chaos focus, with the rest of the power coming from the rulebook, possibly with lore access being alignment based (ie, telekineses, pyromancy, and malefic demonology regardless of alignment; plus biomancy for nurgle, telepathy for slaanesh, and divination for tzeentch).

[Rune Priest Ridcully]

Just saw the new FAQ, talk about kicking us when we are down, poor Ahriman is now so much more overcosted it ain't funny.

[daboarder]

Just saw the new FAQ, talk about kicking us when we are down, poor Ahriman is now so much more overcosted it ain't funny.

wait what?

 

Man Ahriman can cast up to 15 witchfires a turn....hes a walking nuclear bomb

[Excessus]

 

Just saw the new FAQ, talk about kicking us when we are down, poor Ahriman is now so much more overcosted it ain't funny.

wait what?

 

Man Ahriman can cast up to 15 witchfires a turn....hes a walking nuclear bomb

 

...and how many perils will he get while doing so...since he has no familiar? :P

[Dam13n]

... and how is a familiar any defence against perils?

 

You perils on a double 6 and the familiar only allows you to re-roll failed psychic tests.

 

Unless your casting a WC3 power or a Daemonology power, a familar is never going to prevent a perils as the power will have been successfully cast on the double 6.

[JamesI]

 

Just saw the new FAQ, talk about kicking us when we are down, poor Ahriman is now so much more overcosted it ain't funny.

wait what?

 

Man Ahriman can cast up to 15 witchfires a turn....hes a walking nuclear bomb

 

Ahriman has been insane for me the last few weeks.  I love recasting the same power, psychic shriek over and over, or doombolt into a row of tanks, ooh.

[Excessus]

... and how is a familiar any defence against perils?

 

You perils on a double 6 and the familiar only allows you to re-roll failed psychic tests.

 

Unless your casting a WC3 power or a Daemonology power, a familar is never going to prevent a perils as the power will have been successfully cast on the double 6.

Hmm, true, was not thinking clearly there...

[Dammeron]

My regular opponent regularly rolls on Sanctic Daemonology with Ahriman or his Tzeentch sorcerers; there's a lot of synergy in that lore with Thousand Sons and Tzeentch-centric armies. Ahriman with Gate of Infinity, Tzeentch's Firestorm, Doombolt and either psychic shriek or the Biomancy primaris is a nightmare, especially if you've structured your army cannily to provide the necessary Warp Charge (not difficult in armies comprised of Thousand Sons, Pink Horrors and Tzeentch Heralds). Place Ahriman in a squad of Thousand Sons and have them teleport arond the battlefield wiping entire segments of it clean.

[Rune Priest Ridcully]

What do people think is the best discipline to take now with Ahriman after the compulsory lore of change table? I'm thinking biomany or telepathy as they have some nice witchfires and buffs.

[Zeratil]

I generally role at least once on telepathy for Psychic Shriek for Ahriman, as he can use it multiple times and good at downing 2+ save things that my Sons suffer against.

[JamesI]

I generally role at least once on telepathy for Psychic Shriek for Ahriman, as he can use it multiple times and good at downing 2+ save things that my Sons suffer against.

 

 

Yeah, Shriek is a great one for Ahriman. I also like to roll some on biomancy.  Generally don't bother with Pyromancy, except maybe against an Ork horde.

[Excessus]

I always roll biomancy on ahriman. It has decent witchfire spells to fire and the chance of getting endurance and iron arm is extra nice! Having Ahriman with S9 AP2 on initiative running around is awesome! :D

[Zeratil]

... and how is a familiar any defence against perils?

You perils on a double 6 and the familiar only allows you to re-roll failed psychic tests.

Unless your casting a WC3 power or a Daemonology power, a familar is never going to prevent a perils as the power will have been successfully cast on the double 6.

Hmm, true, was not thinking clearly there...

Yeah, sucks a bit doesn't it. Although it does provide a small degree of protection in that you can afford to throw less dice at each power, knowing you'll get a re-roll if you fail, which does overall decrease the perils chance, and gives you a bit more bang for your buck (Nuffle providing...).

I always roll biomancy on ahriman. It has decent witchfire spells to fire and the chance of getting endurance and iron arm is extra nice! Having Ahriman with S9 AP2 on initiative running around is awesome!

Yeah, I tend to roll once on Tzeentch (I would love to be wrong on that, but that's my gut RAI interpretation), Once on Telepathy, if I get Invis I roll again on Telepathy and swap to the primaris, and then roll the remainder on biomancy.

7th edition has mostly taken away from Sons I feel, 150 points minimum (242 if you're doing it properly) for 1 psychic dice is not good value, and the fact that you pay so much for the AS who only has 1 wound (so can easily perils and have a ~6/7 chance of dying) means throwing a lot of dice at something is risky. I bulk out my army with a Lvl 3 Herald and a 17 strong unit of horrors, but if I wasn't dedicated to playing something with Thousand Sons I would probably just run daemons, they're a far better psychic army given they can get warp charge dice so easily. At the very least Sons need Brotherhood of Sorcerers (or 'chuck a Rubric in the way') and the option to take non-Tzeentch powers, oh, and some good Tzeentch powers would be nice. But now I'm just wishlisting :(

[*Furyou Miko]

I generally give Ahriman telepathy, rarely biomancy if I want to troll the other guy by beating up his monsters with my squishy wizard. heh... to be fair, Ahriman is good enough in a brawl anyway.

[daboarder]

Iron arming force staves is hillarious

[Tenebris]

Trust me, Ahriman is a beast with ... wait for it... Sanctic Daemonology. 4 Warp Charges, awesome offensive powers and mobility, surprise factor, best Vortex spammer in the game. A very brutal combination, I love it. 

[Prot]

You guys certainly make Ahriman/1K Sons sound 'fun'. It's a legion I've never really played, and from the get go all I heard was complaining about them on the table top.

 

As interesting as this conversation is it seems there's a lot to fix in 7th for these guys. Still.... sounds like an army you can play fairly fluffy..... even if it's cost prohibitive. 

[Zeratil]

You guys certainly make Ahriman/1K Sons sound 'fun'. It's a legion I've never really played, and from the get go all I heard was complaining about them on the table top.

 

As interesting as this conversation is it seems there's a lot to fix in 7th for these guys. Still.... sounds like an army you can play fairly fluffy..... even if it's cost prohibitive. 

 

Eqyptian. Warrior. Wizards. In. Space. What's not to love? My thousand sons are my favourite army, to collect, paint and play. Always have been, they've never been competitive that I recall for the many reasons listed in this thread than in others, and that has frustrated me many times, but I always have fun playing with them on the tabletop at the end of the day, even when they're the underdogs.

[Rune Priest Ridcully]

The way to think of Thousand sons is Egyptian-Neo Assyrian-Mesopotamian warrior schoolar/professor who seek to rekindle the embers of enlightenment and reason that were smothered in the Heresy whilst questing for the items and knowledge to secure the most wanted thing in the Galaxy.
Tenure :P

On a more serious note, I'll be playing an opponent who uses nurgle, not sure daemons or marines at 1000pts next week, any advice for fighting the maggots of the lord of the decay?

[Zeratil]

Nurgle tends to be 'like chaos but tougher' I find, importantly for thousand sons your AP3 bolters will be less effective than normal because of fewer wounds getting through. Stuff that doesn't care about an extra point of toughness (Str 7 and higher for the most part) are good in an anti-infantry role and generally good against daemons with their poor saves. IIRC Nurgle daemons have good access to shrouded? So maybe go for a crimsons laughter base to get divination for Prescience and Theignorecoverone.

[JamesI]

Trust me, Ahriman is a beast with ... wait for it... Sanctic Daemonology. 4 Warp Charges, awesome offensive powers and mobility, surprise factor, best Vortex spammer in the game. A very brutal combination, I love it. 

I have never tried that, now I want to.