Garro: Shield of Lies (James Swallow)

[Kol Saresk]

Severian, not Sevatar.

[Perrin]

It could apply to both really.

[Kol Saresk]

The close combat monster via untrained psychic power? Possibly could apply to both. The "instinctively using untrained psychic power to help be stealthy"? So far we've only seen Severian do that. That's why I clarified that my statement about one using his power to be stealthy applies to Severian who is known as the shadow monster, not Sevatar who is renowned as a CC god, as Augustus put it.

[Lord Lorne Walkier]

I just spent awhile looking through posts in order to find this quote from AD-B concerning Garro and his role, or lack thereof, in the founding of the Grey Knights:

 

'Jim Swallow has gone on record a few times saying that the Knights Errant aren't the Grey Knights. That's obvious in a way, as the Knights Errant are clearly not Grey Knights, but there's an easy comparison in saying they're a proto-form of the organisation, and there's nothing to say that one or more Knight Errants won't go on to be instrumental in the Grey Knights' foundation. There's not much to say they will, either, though DEV started this thread with what looks like some rare evidence surfacing.

 

(Grey Knights are psychic, though. Garro's not. That's worth considering.)'

 

This, to me, answers the question of whether or not Garro could be Janus. I think not. I like the idea that Sevatar is Janus...

 

You are one of many who feel this way and i don't want to tell you are wrong but maybe you might try something.  I challenge you to re read Flight of the Eisenstein with the idea in your head that Garro IS a psyker.  There are no less then 6 scenes that to me, strongly hint at Garro's latent mind powers.  If you read them with the idea that Garro might be different then other Astartes it might be like looking for bio matter with a black light.  I think most who think like you do will be unwilling to take me up on this but ill keep trying to drag people to my way of thinking.

[GhostMalone]

^^^^ but then your looking specifically for bits that fit your way of thinking whereas the book was most likely not written with that intention if do it would have eluded to it early on.

[Piano_Sam]

 

I just spent awhile looking through posts in order to find this quote from AD-B concerning Garro and his role, or lack thereof, in the founding of the Grey Knights:

'Jim Swallow has gone on record a few times saying that the Knights Errant aren't the Grey Knights. That's obvious in a way, as the Knights Errant are clearly not Grey Knights, but there's an easy comparison in saying they're a proto-form of the organisation, and there's nothing to say that one or more Knight Errants won't go on to be instrumental in the Grey Knights' foundation. There's not much to say they will, either, though DEV started this thread with what looks like some rare evidence surfacing.

(Grey Knights are psychic, though. Garro's not. That's worth considering.)'

This, to me, answers the question of whether or not Garro could be Janus. I think not. I like the idea that Sevatar is Janus...

 

 

You are one of many who feel this way and i don't want to tell you are wrong but maybe you might try something.  I challenge you to re read Flight of the Eisenstein with the idea in your head that Garro IS a psyker.  There are no less then 6 scenes that to me, strongly hint at Garro's latent mind powers.  If you read them with the idea that Garro might be different then other Astartes it might be like looking for bio matter with a black light.  I think most who think like you do will be unwilling to take me up on this but ill keep trying to drag people to my way of thinking.

I actually read it without any preconceptions and felt that he might be a psyker. It excited me that I had this 'insight'...then I read AD-B's thoughts on the matter. I was seriously disappointed, but figured it was their story and not mine. Parts of me still think he might be, and there may be some cheeky misdirection going on, so I'll withhold my verdict. (I actually read it twice; the first time with no preconceptions and the second with the idea he wasn't a psyker. He felt the same to me, so I dunno).

[Kol Saresk]

^^^^ but then your looking specifically for bits that fit your way of thinking whereas the book was most likely not written with that intention if do it would have eluded to it early on.

Intentionially searching within a specified preconception is ALWAYS the wrong way to do things precisely because of what Jaspcat just said: your mind will alter things to fit your point of view.

 

As for me personally, when I read Flight of the Eisenstein, I was strongly reminded of when Loken went to Lupercal's Court in Galaxy in Flames and was struck with visions. Me having read a little bit of the older BL material where nonpsykers sometimes received visions of the warp as messages went "DING! Chaos wants these two really bad. Like really, really bad that it threatens to expose itself before the Betrayal, which could ruin the plans for the Loyalists on Istvaan. You know, that bad."

 

But that only happened because I've read things like Conquest of Armageddon where the not-psychic Emperor's Champion lived up to the background lore of receiving visions from the Emperor by receiving visions from the Emperor.

 

But no matter what you do, always look without preconceptions. It does not hurt. At all. In fact, it will help.

[GhostMalone]

^^^ exactly, earlier on in the series we could stay unbiased but now everyone is waiting for the next latent psyker or trying to find snippets and Easter eggs but the reality is that we have no control of the situation.

 

No one thought anything on the scene with omegon and a second suit if armour till a couple years later, ohh he's going to be a knight errant because of the armours description.

 

That sort of thinking then leads to taking some snippets of information and twisting it towards our best case scenario when the reality could just be that it's actually just a second suit that could be who knows maybe a missing primarchs armour set.

 

And from there I can start my own hypothesis and misconstrue any information that could benefit my point of view.

[Inquisitor Kravin]

Armour of contempt? Shield of lies? What's next, the Boltgun of disgust? The melta bomb of disdain? And why is their a young Sigourney Weaver on the cover?

 

The Boltgun of Disgust and the Melta Bomb of Disdain made me laugh out loud and nearly spray tea over my keyboard! In Sword Of Truth they specifcally referenced the metaphorical weapon. I'd love to see the same with these. Have a traitor all gloating and mocking and then have "the melta bomb of disdain from Garro vaporised <insert villain>'s  confidence like a charge through the side of a rhino armoured personnel carrier."

 

For a guy that was messed up badly istvaan iii (choral city) he's got a lot of life and vitality.

 

If only Patrick Stewart voiced him

 

Normally I'm all for Patrick Stewart voicing characters but for me Toby Longworth IS the voice of Garro.

 

Quite like the Garro series (apart from the Loken resurrection but even that I'm mostly willing to move on from after this amount of time). Looking forward to this. Name is a nice counterpart to "The Sword of Truth".

 

INB4 Garro is Janus.

 

Genuine lol, and not because it's ADB.

 

 

At least we got that bit out of the way. Oh, and whilst we're at it - Tarvitz is dead.

 

Personally I like Sevatar as Khyron, and MAYBE Omegon as Janus.

 

To be fair I'm sure a lot of people thought Qruze was going to be a Grandmaster as well...

 

We've also been shown that there are quite a lot of Knights-Errant, way more than 8. It could be that they all keep falling in battle until there's only 8 left when Malcador decides to send Titan into the warp.

 

I'm not keen on the number of Knights Errant. I know it's a big galaxy but Laurie Goulding said something about Garro having to find twenty KE but there being loads more he doesn't know about.

[Emperor's Furor]

Yeah on the issue of the number of Knight's Errant..

 

 

A believe a Space Wolves one dies in the short story Distant Echos of Old Night.

[Kol Saresk]

@Kravin: It's "Tarvitz is alive." Troll right dude. :P

[Lord Lorne Walkier]

http://www.blacklibrary.com/Images/BL/blog/2014/july/16/garro.jpg

 

 

 

 

 

 

Garro is deflecting lasers...  perhaps this is the proof of his psyker powers I've been looking for?  Oh wait, no, there i go again right?  My mind "will alter things to fit my point of view."   Wow, my mind is powerful!  Maybe I'm a psyker....

[The Red Thirst]

I dont think any astartes deflecting a lasbeam is any sort of stretch, I once read an astartes who was shot at with a bolt pistol and have enough time to save his own life by slapping it, resulting in the loss of his hand and im pretty sure he wasnt a psyker either, anyone remember what this is from?

Thanks for finding the full artwork btw ;)

[The Red Thirst]

Here it is, from Blood Gorgons

 

http://i1226.photobucket.com/albums/ee410/TheRedThirst/boltslapper_zps454c9deb.png

[Emperor's Furor]

He's clearly a Jedi.

[Perrin]

Not sure if you were joking but I don't see him deflecting any lasbeams.

 

Could a power weapon deflect a lasbeam? I'm not entirely sure how power weapons work, do they have a live electric current running through them or some kinda of plasma/energy kind of thing?

 

I'm on the fence about Garro being a psyker, but Libertas does sound awfully force weapon like at times, and seems to cut down daemons remarkably well.

[Kol Saresk]

So did that antique sword whats-his-name(the censured sergeant) used in Know No Fear. Maybe he's a psyker too and that's why he disappeared after Censure.

 

EDIT: Thiel. That's his name. Maybe he's another Grand Master. After all, he helped fight the daemons at Calth and he defeated an Unburdened in hand to hand combat.

[Perrin]

Thiel?

Maybe. Who knows, but I sense sarcasm

EDIT: I should clarify, I'm not support the "Garro is a psyker" thing, but whether intentional or not Garro does seem to have a connection to the sword, which has it's own storied origins, and does cut through daemons remarkably well. While it couldn't be a force weapon itself, it's effectiveness may be explained due to a latent psyker channelling his power through the sword to destroy his foes without realising.

Similar to the passage in The Lion where

The Lion pulls out two of his many swords and kills some daemons, the effect the swords have on the daemons and the description of them sound a lot like a force weapon being used by a psyker. Giving rise to the theory that all Primarchs are psykers in some way, or at least psychic beings

[Demus Ragnok]

Even more important than all this and that. Notice, Garro is with a woman and he is fighting Thallax, a Mechanicum force.

That girl the the one guarding the Dragon on Mars and Garro has gone to bring her to Terra to help Emps with his webway project.

[Kol Saresk]

Actually the tidbit on Amazon says she is some sort of clerk who has discovered a conspiracy within the Administratum.

 

While the war rages on across the galaxy, for many on the Throneworld of Terra it exists only in rumour and hearsay. But in the course of her daily duties, humble adept Katanoh Tallery discovers evidence of a conspiracy within the Administratum - surely, this can only be the precursor to a traitor attack on the Solar System itself! Fleeing into the shadows, she soon finds herself at the mercy of the mysterious Knight Errant Nathaniel Garro. Will this stalwart defender of mankind be her saviour, or her executioner?

http://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/1849707952/ref=mw_dp_mdsc?dsc=1

 

Perrin: The same effect was observed with Thiel using the antique sword. So if we go the route "sword that is super effective must be force sword, which means user must be psychic", then Thiel is a psyker.

 

But if we follow Thiel's theoretical that swords(and other weapons) fashioned in a certain manner carry a symbolic resonance within the warp that allows them to harm a daemon's physical manifestation, it becomes a different story altogether.

[depthcharge12]

So did that antique sword whats-his-name(the censured sergeant) used in Know No Fear. Maybe he's a psyker too and that's why he disappeared after Censure.

EDIT: Thiel. That's his name. Maybe he's another Grand Master. After all, he helped fight the daemons at Calth and he defeated an Unburdened in hand to hand combat.

To steal ADBs line:

 

"InB4 Thiel's a psyker" :P

 

 

Because so many latent psykers are beginning to discover/rediscover their power during the Heresy, I don't think it would be far fetched. I believe KNF mentions something about one of the Ultras getting headaches because of the psychic backlash about to happen.

 

 

Thiel?

 

Maybe. Who knows, but I sense sarcasm ;)

 

 

EDIT: I should clarify, I'm not support the "Garro is a psyker" thing, but whether intentional or not Garro does seem to have a connection to the sword, which has it's own storied origins, and does cut through daemons remarkably well. While it couldn't be a force weapon itself, it's effectiveness may be explained due to a latent psyker channelling his power through the sword to destroy his foes without realising.

 

Similar to the passage in The Lion where

The Lion pulls out two of his many swords and kills some daemons, the effect the swords have on the daemons and the description of them sound a lot like a force weapon being used by a psyker. Giving rise to the theory that all Primarchs are psykers in some way, or at least psychic beings

 

 

This could also be that since the Lion was experienced with fighting warp beasts on Caliban that he has special weapons and tactics to fight them with,

 

 

Oh and...

 

 

"InB4 Corswain is a Psyker"

 

 

:D

[Slips]

Next thing you know all Space Marines of Note will be psykers >_>

[depthcharge12]

Next thing you know all Space Marines of Note will be psykers >_>

 

"InB4 Space Wolves are psykers"

 

 

 

Errrr...hold up a second :P

[GhostMalone]

Inb4 space marines are all psykers come 8th ed

[Lord Lorne Walkier]

Not sure if you were joking but I don't see him deflecting any lasbeams.

 

Could a power weapon deflect a lasbeam? I'm not entirely sure how power weapons work, do they have a live electric current running through them or some kinda of plasma/energy kind of thing?

 

I'm on the fence about Garro being a psyker, but Libertas does sound awfully force weapon like at times, and seems to cut down daemons remarkably well.

 

I will admit I'm three sheets to the wind, drunk on the Garro is a psyker Kool-aid.   To me in the picture, he is deflecting the lasers shot at his head with Libertas while unloading with his bolt pistol.  I was joking about my mind powers for sure though...  

 

What you say about Garro and Libertas is spot on.  The way he uses it to draw on reserve energy and then kill deamons and other foes is one of my main reasons to think he is a psyker.  The early part of Flight of the Eisenstein when he kills the bodyguard of the baby, xenos, psyker is the first big hint he has mind powers himself.