Kastor Krieg Posted January 2, 2016 Share Posted January 2, 2016 · Hidden by Slips, January 2, 2016 - No reason given Hidden by Slips, January 2, 2016 - No reason given You don't work for games workshop. You are not a black library author. ADB writes for them and they invalidated all his Templar background. You think your stuff is as valid as ADBs? That's a level of self delusion I'm not equipped to deal with.That's enough. Reported. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/293603-garro-shield-of-lies-james-swallow/page/6/#findComment-4266843
Marshal Rohr Posted January 2, 2016 Share Posted January 2, 2016 · Hidden by Slips, January 2, 2016 - No reason given Hidden by Slips, January 2, 2016 - No reason given It's not against the rules to point out poster on the BnC have no impact on the official background. In fact insisting YOUR background is right is against the rules. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/293603-garro-shield-of-lies-james-swallow/page/6/#findComment-4266846
Remus Ventanus. Posted January 2, 2016 Share Posted January 2, 2016 · Hidden by Slips, January 2, 2016 - No reason given Hidden by Slips, January 2, 2016 - No reason given Guys, take it easy... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/293603-garro-shield-of-lies-james-swallow/page/6/#findComment-4266854
Kastor Krieg Posted January 2, 2016 Share Posted January 2, 2016 · Hidden by Slips, January 2, 2016 - No reason given Hidden by Slips, January 2, 2016 - No reason given It's not against the rules to point out poster on the BnC have no impact on the official background. In fact insisting YOUR background is right is against the rules.What are you going on about? I'm not claiming my fluff overrides GW fluff in any way, why the hell would I? I'm claiming my right to do whatever I want with my plastic dudesmen and that you won't be telling me I'm having fun the wrong way.  I don't know, you seem like a seasoned user with all these posts. I recognized your name and you've always seemed level-headed. I can't understand how you can claim my fun is against forum rules. Mind. Blown. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/293603-garro-shield-of-lies-james-swallow/page/6/#findComment-4266858
AfroCampbell Posted January 2, 2016 Share Posted January 2, 2016 · Hidden by Slips, January 2, 2016 - No reason given Hidden by Slips, January 2, 2016 - No reason given Please get off my post both of ya, I want to discuss the good fluff nuggets and interesting points of the new Garro novel, not hear the pissing match of two whiny neck-beards with a hard on for their own right hand and an IQ no larger than their shoe size. Let's keep it civil. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/293603-garro-shield-of-lies-james-swallow/page/6/#findComment-4266859
Marshal Rohr Posted January 2, 2016 Share Posted January 2, 2016  It's not against the rules to point out poster on the BnC have no impact on the official background. In fact insisting YOUR background is right is against the rules.What are you going on about? I'm not claiming my fluff overrides GW fluff in any way, why the hell would I? I'm claiming my right to do whatever I want with my plastic dudesmen and that you won't be telling me I'm having fun the wrong way.  I don't know, you seem like a seasoned user with all these posts. I recognized your name and you've always seemed level-headed. I can't understand how you can claim my fun is against forum rules. Mind. Blown. I'm not talking about your personal army. If you look at my logs very little matches with official fluff. I'm talking about the overarching narrative of the universe. The stuff we have to pay for. That is set by GW and we can't change it. We can, on an individual level, do as we like. But the universe itself does something else. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/293603-garro-shield-of-lies-james-swallow/page/6/#findComment-4266860 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kastor Krieg Posted January 2, 2016 Share Posted January 2, 2016 · Hidden by Slips, January 2, 2016 - No reason given Hidden by Slips, January 2, 2016 - No reason given Please get off my post both of ya, I want to discuss the good fluff nuggets and interesting points of the new Garro novel, At this point, I was like "OK, you're right, sorry dude." not hear the pissing match of two whiny neck-beards with a hard on for their own right hand and an IQ no larger than their shoe size. Let's keep it civil. But this is where you've lost me. Was this aggravation really necessary? Even if we did derail the thread (and the conversation got the melta anyway, I see)? Was your post any civil at all? Â Sheesh, gimme all dat aggro. I accept this challenge. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/293603-garro-shield-of-lies-james-swallow/page/6/#findComment-4266863
Slips Posted January 2, 2016 Share Posted January 2, 2016 · Hidden by Slips, January 2, 2016 - No reason given Hidden by Slips, January 2, 2016 - No reason given Closed Pending Clean-up and people cool down. =][= Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/293603-garro-shield-of-lies-james-swallow/page/6/#findComment-4266864
Marshal Rohr Posted January 2, 2016 Share Posted January 2, 2016 · Hidden by Slips, January 2, 2016 - No reason given Hidden by Slips, January 2, 2016 - No reason given  Please get off my post both of ya, I want to discuss the good fluff nuggets and interesting points of the new Garro novel,At this point, I was like "OK, you're right, sorry dude."not hear the pissing match of two whiny neck-beards with a hard on for their own right hand and an IQ no larger than their shoe size. Let's keep it civil.But this is where you've lost me. Was this aggravation really necessary? Even if we did derail the thread (and the conversation got the melta anyway, I see)? Typical. We argue about fluff and our posts got the melta. He insults out intelligence and gets a free pass. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/293603-garro-shield-of-lies-james-swallow/page/6/#findComment-4266866
Kastor Krieg Posted January 2, 2016 Share Posted January 2, 2016 I think the lot of it got the melta. Thank you, Slips. Apologies for our part here, let's allow the thread to carry on.Can someone please totally spoil the Siggy / Keeler angle, in minute details? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/293603-garro-shield-of-lies-james-swallow/page/6/#findComment-4266867 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slips Posted January 2, 2016 Share Posted January 2, 2016 Alright, I'm Re-Opening this. I've got faith in y'all that you'll all keep it civil, constructive and friendly this time around.  We're all friends here, we all love the setting. If we have disagreements thats fine as long as it stays On Topic.  The moment it diverges from the discussion at hand, take it elsewhere: PMs, Another Thread, etc. Whatever suits your fancy.  I don't ever want to see anyone taking shots at another here especially if its due to heated off-topic discussion. Use the Report Button and we'll look into it.  Mainly since Personal Attacks are against Board Rules.  So have at it but don't make us Melta this since its a book discussion about new fluff.  =][= Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/293603-garro-shield-of-lies-james-swallow/page/6/#findComment-4266878 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kastor Krieg Posted January 3, 2016 Share Posted January 3, 2016 Can someone please totally spoil the Siggy / Keeler angle, in minute details? Anyone, please? :) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/293603-garro-shield-of-lies-james-swallow/page/6/#findComment-4267060 Share on other sites More sharing options...
depthcharge12 Posted January 3, 2016 Share Posted January 3, 2016 I've noit followed the Garro plotlines. I know who and what he is, but what he does i'm of no clue. Â So what role does he fulfil? He was a rather characterless individual (although i probably blame swallow for that) who was a captain of the DG and commanded a single vessel. Â He isn't even especially skilled, goimg vy what rulles we have seen. Â He runs away to bring word to the Big E. Lad with a few survivors. Â Then what? What is it that makes him so capable that makes him uniquely suited to his task? Malcador is the spymaster. Legions have been involved in interlegionary cinflict before seemingly at the behest of the Big E. Other legionaries are noted as having considered its possibility. UM have capacity to run simulations against other Legions. Â These ultrabeings do not have a task force of SM, or better to do the task of the errants, whatever it is they do? I think it's because Garro proved his loyalty in extremis, which made him a candidate for Malcadors black ops team. I could be a jerk and say he's brainwashed, but I think he's just committed to the Great Crusade alongside those other turncoat old fogeys. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/293603-garro-shield-of-lies-james-swallow/page/6/#findComment-4267076 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hergrmir Posted January 3, 2016 Share Posted January 3, 2016 Full spilers follow: Â Â Garro wanders off by himself reflecting on how, he's been butting heads with Malcador a bunch, and how he's losing a sense of purpose. Having transitioned many times (from human to dusk raider to death guard to loyalist to knight errant), he no longer has any idea of what he's doing, and he's also somewhat concerned about the distinction between Malcador's will and the Emperor's will. Â Malcador then gives him a leave of absence to go figure himself out, and so Garro decides to track down Euphrati Keeler. After coming across a shanty where a bunch of followers of the Lectitio Divinatus were killed, Garro meets Sigismund, who's responding to a distress signal he received from this slum, but was too late to do anything. Â Sigismund and Garro have a bit of a heart to heart, in which Sigismund tells Garro he believes, but he also has a job to do and can't go haring off to protect Keeler, whereas Garro can do so, and they both share some skepticism of the Sigilite's underhanded ways. Â Garro meets up with Keeler and undergoes some religious experiences, and finds that Keeler has a bunch of different precognitive visions of various deaths - deaths which Garro says he'll try and spare her from. Ultimately Garro, Keeler, Sinderman and some extras, are caught up in a fight between an Alpha Legion operative and the wacko he's assigned to support - who turns out to be Eristede Kell from Nemesis and Gunsight, who's now also a traitor. Garro kills the two of them and a bunch of the extras die, Keeler mystically heals one from near death. Â Another errant plus some human troops of the sigilite then arrive to apprehend Keeler alone, and Garro is ready to fight them when she convinces him (in some sort of frozen time) to let her go with them - where else will she be safe than in the Imperial palace? She tells him that he'll know when to bust her out, and Garro joins back up with the Errants, knowing that Sinderman's oration will continue to carry the lectitio across the stars. Â The finale has Garro wandering around by himself, and Malcador turns up again and they have a bit of a reconciliation, but Malcador now sees there's a part of Garro's psyche that's closed to all his psyker tricks, and Garro informs him that's where his faith is. Â Â Â Â Spoilers end. Â All in all, it's a fine enough read, though if you don't care about the Garro storyline then it brings nothing to the table, though the location of Keeler is perhaps relevant in terms of picking up a thread left hanging from the start of the series. If BL is serious about us being around the end of the second act, then the tale does some work in explaining the spread of the new imperial cult, but that's really the long and short of it. Â As to the Sigismund religious warrior thing, I'm not sure what people expect? He DOES found the Black Templars after all, and while GW occasionally tries to be coy about the Black Templars' beliefs about the emperor's divinity, it's pretty evident that the main thrust is that they are religious. Â Broadly though, so far I haven't really been taken with the knights errant plotline, and I've followed most of it. I would dearly, dearly like it to be the case that there's nothing very special at all about the errants at all except that a lot of them held their oaths in the face of their brothers' betrayal (though that ship sailed with the induction of loyal marines from loyal legions). If that were the case, we get this nice little thing where one of the metaphysical truths of 40k - that Grey Knights never fall - isn't transcendant, but just coincidental. It kind of ties nicely into the whole thing with the 40k setting where belief changes what the truth is. But again that requires a certain finesse that I'm not sure will survive the often hamfisted storytelling. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/293603-garro-shield-of-lies-james-swallow/page/6/#findComment-4267725 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kastor Krieg Posted January 3, 2016 Share Posted January 3, 2016 As to the Sigismund religious warrior thing, I'm not sure what people expect? He DOES found the Black Templars after all, and while GW occasionally tries to be coy about the Black Templars' beliefs about the emperor's divinity, it's pretty evident that the main thrust is that they are religious. Thank you for the event rundown. As far as the Templars are concerned, it's a recent and great change in their approach towards the Emperor and psykers. One that has been the core of the Chapter's character and now it's been turned around 180, into something the "old Templars" would hate themselves. Can't be surprised old Templar players reject this change and do not accept this "new retconned canon". Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/293603-garro-shield-of-lies-james-swallow/page/6/#findComment-4267731 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marshal Rohr Posted January 3, 2016 Share Posted January 3, 2016 *twitch* Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/293603-garro-shield-of-lies-james-swallow/page/6/#findComment-4267806 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slips Posted January 3, 2016 Share Posted January 3, 2016 I think all us sons of Dorn can agree that that Sigismund Scene makes us all *Psychopathic Eye Twitch*  v_v  On the bright side, it could have been worse...possibly. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/293603-garro-shield-of-lies-james-swallow/page/6/#findComment-4267807 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kastor Krieg Posted January 3, 2016 Share Posted January 3, 2016 http://24.media.tumblr.com/917a1547661e813e4079def49b85692b/tumblr_mwua0pZi5F1rqpdk5o1_400.gif Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/293603-garro-shield-of-lies-james-swallow/page/6/#findComment-4267811 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sete Posted January 3, 2016 Share Posted January 3, 2016 Even the strongest of walls needs a solid base. What better foundation than faith, against the bleak terror of the warp? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/293603-garro-shield-of-lies-james-swallow/page/6/#findComment-4267892 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slips Posted January 3, 2016 Share Posted January 3, 2016 Even the strongest of walls needs a solid base. What better foundation than faith, against the bleak terror of the warp? The Imperial Truth, thats what! Â That said, its nice to see some semblance of internal strife with the Knights Errant and Malcador and all that. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/293603-garro-shield-of-lies-james-swallow/page/6/#findComment-4267909 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kastor Krieg Posted January 3, 2016 Share Posted January 3, 2016 Even the strongest of walls needs a solid base. What better foundation than faith, against the bleak terror of the warp? The Imperial Truth. Service to Him on the Golden Throne, the ideal of Humanity. The purity of wisdom and honor above blind faith and fear. Our vows and "prayers" do not mean we need any crutch of faith. I do not see "God" mentioned in the vows and the battlecry below. This is the core of what it means to be a Templar. We do not need ANYTHING more. + Lead us from death to victory, from falsehood to truth + + Lead us from despair to hope, from faith to slaughter + + Lead us to His strength and an eternity of war + + Let His wrath fill our hearts + + Death, war, and blood + + In vengeance serve the Emperor and the name of Dorn! + + Trust in the Emperor at the hour of battle. + Trust to him to intercede, and protect his warriors true as they deal death on alien soil + + Turn their seas to red with the blood of their slain. + Crush their hopes, their dreams + And turn their songs into cries of lamentation + + Smite now the scions of the Witch! + + Grant us the strength to pierce their unclean flesh! + + To cover their fields with the pale form of the blasphemous dead! + + To drown the thunder of guns with the shriek of their dying! + + To lay waste to their citadels with hurricanes of fire! + + To wring the hearts of their kin with unavailing grief! + + To send them into the waste of their desolate land in rags and hunger + Broken in spirit, worn with travail and begging for the refuge of the grave + + We ask it, in the spirit of wrath, O Master of Mankind! + + O Emperor, in wrath rejoicing at bloody wars, fierce and untamed + + Whose mighty power doth make the strongest walls from their foundations shake + + All-conquering Master of Mankind, be pleased with this war's tumultuous roar + + Delight in swords and fists red with alien blood, and the dire ruins of savage battle + + Rejoice in furious challenge, and avenging strife, whose works with woe embitter human life! + + No Fear! No Pity! NO REMORSE! + And Slips went all Callidus on me with the Imperial Truth while I was zealing away Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/293603-garro-shield-of-lies-james-swallow/page/6/#findComment-4267912 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slips Posted January 3, 2016 Share Posted January 3, 2016 :O! The Callidus is my favorite so thats neat! Â Also tone down the Black Templar RP a bit :P Maybe a [Hidden] or Tag ^_^ Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/293603-garro-shield-of-lies-james-swallow/page/6/#findComment-4267921 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Calas Typhon Posted January 4, 2016 Share Posted January 4, 2016 Oh great, The Templars are at it again! Â Quick, someone grab the meltas! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/293603-garro-shield-of-lies-james-swallow/page/6/#findComment-4267929 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kastor Krieg Posted January 4, 2016 Share Posted January 4, 2016 But why would you make me hide my zeal? Sniffle. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/293603-garro-shield-of-lies-james-swallow/page/6/#findComment-4267940 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sete Posted January 4, 2016 Share Posted January 4, 2016 The Imperial Truth, is not the Truth after all. Heresy I know. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/293603-garro-shield-of-lies-james-swallow/page/6/#findComment-4268136 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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