TheAurelian Posted July 11, 2014 Share Posted July 11, 2014 So just finished reading vengeful spirit and was wondering what people who have read it thought. I thought it was kinda meh, yeah i liked the story but desperately wish someone other than McNeil would have written it. Just curious on the general consensus. if this is posted elsewhere a nudge in the right direction would be much appreciated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aegnor Posted July 11, 2014 Share Posted July 11, 2014 Really liked it. A couple of specific things were jarring: Mortarion killing the Death shroud to summon a daemon, Horus repeatedly getting shot to pieces but somehow not dying But that didn't detract from me really enjoying it on the whole. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carlos_spiceyweiner Posted July 11, 2014 Share Posted July 11, 2014 Agree. Thought the battle scenes were pretty epic, but when it came to the whole "Emperor did something with the chaos gods" bit I was a tad confused... seemed like it was something they just sort of shoehorned into the book Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gaz Taylor Posted July 11, 2014 Share Posted July 11, 2014 I enjoyed the book as it firmly set Horus and the Sons of Horus onto the path of damnation. Also the series has needed something more about why Horus became who he did during the heresy and I felt the initial reasons that he 'caught' it from the events on Darvin, weren't quite enough. It's nice to see that all that did was to open his eyes to what the Chaos God are and what they can offer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daveNYC Posted July 11, 2014 Share Posted July 11, 2014 Anything that fleshes out the changes to the traitor primarchs as the Heresy goes on is a good thing. There's a big change in Horus between Fulgrim, where he's OK with, but not necessarily happy about the Dropsite Massacre, plus deciding that he needs to do something about the daemon in Fulgrim, to Nemesis (which I think is the next book he showed up in), where he had no problems letting one of his captains get killed and then exploding the entire planetary population in eight pointed star formations. Someone needs to write something similar for Lorgar, because he's doing things that are hard to fit into the 'hard sacrifices necessary to secure the future of humanity' mindset that he had in The First Heretic. He's making sacrifices (in every possible definition of the word) but they don't seem to be particularly hard for him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stonerhino Posted July 12, 2014 Share Posted July 12, 2014 Lorgar seems to have had major personality changes after he faced Corax and lived. When Chaos told him he would die if he did. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marshal Goderic Posted July 15, 2014 Share Posted July 15, 2014 Read it, liked it, sorta, didn't love it. The entire part about/with Loken seemed goofy and had a bad/cheesy movie quality feel to it, haven't had that in any other Heresy book. kinda cheesy, mission impossible esque style 'here come the good guys' *insert theme music here* Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
karden00 Posted July 16, 2014 Share Posted July 16, 2014 I listened to the audiobook. I've never been a fan of audiobooking the Heresy, and this is no exception. However, the content, by and large, pleased me quite a bit. I loved the storyline of the Knights. Raven being so caught up in his own ego that he turns away from the Prince of Ego and resists was just...I thought at least, a very, very well done thing. It was fantastic how we were meant to cheer for Alvard or whatever his name was, only to realize that Raven would have resisted Horus because he had already rejected Fulgrim and that Alvard was the damnation of Mollech. Loved the bit of Alvard revealing to Raven that the sisterwife saw Banelash, and not Raven at the big fight. I was rather confused by the Blood Angels. I get that they were there as an honour guard, but the direction of their storyline seemed really...kinda clumsy compared to the role of the Ultramarines (but of course I would say that). I dont mind perpetuals. I kinda dig them, actually. As much as I love it when an author really stresses the logistical, conventional nature of the war, and how from a purely militaristic point of view, resources, time and firepower are incredibly important and precious, I dont mind wacky :cuss going on as well. This is the Heresy, the largest conflict Humanity has ever seen, one that is a paradigm shift and is almost cosmological in its scope and consequence. So I dont mind at all if it means some rather...ethereal figures come out of the woodwork to play a role. Emps himself is rather numinous, after all. What I didnt like was how the lady perpetual died on Mollech....and then resurrects on a ship later on. At least, It takes an awful lot to imagine her resurrecting after the lsat fight, only to make her way off world while there are at least 2 traitor legions in operations, and track down that one ship with her people on it. When we first met Damon Praetanis, he was killed on a Word Bearer ship and popped up again right away. No issues there, like Vulkan he just was woven back into existence. But I dunno what this chick did to get to where she got. I was never a huge fan of the Knights Errant, but I was glad to see Loken if only to give us a different personality from Garro. I cant stand Garro. He's like Batman, conflicted and yada yada, but he always comes through in the end. A Garro story generally just smacks of repetition to me. As much as Loken being alive cheapens his death (and most of the original trilogy, by extention) I was glad to have a fresh KE face to get to spend time with. I still dont know how Qruze's voice is the loudest in the legions. Just because he resisted Horus and was killed piecemeal? That is what the prophecy from Euphrati was all about? Sorry, dont buy that. Help me out if Im missing something there, brothers. On the note of the KE, I cannot....I cannot wait to read a full length novel of Russ going out to showdown and throwdown with Horus. I think that has the potential to be a phenomenal read. Which brings me to the end. This book gave me something precious, it really did. Possibly my favourite moment from the whole Heresy series, easily a contender for my favourite line, up there with Lorgar telling Guilliman he is an orphan in KNF, was..... When the Red Angel was blabbering on, and Horus said, "Please, shut up. Please, just shut the hell up." I had to stop doing the dishes and contemplate how awesome that moment was. Simply fantastic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Knight of the Raven Posted July 16, 2014 Share Posted July 16, 2014 When the Red Angel was blabbering on, and Horus said, "Please, shut up. Please, just shut the hell up." This beats Elysius' "Are you done?" in Firedrake. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blood Angel Scout Posted July 16, 2014 Share Posted July 16, 2014 Karden Think the loudest voice, was a metaphor for the Half-Heard and how he held true to the honour of the Luna Wolves and the Imperium, reminding Loken of the betrayal and closing of any desire he had to returning to Horus. I'm wondering if the perpetuals have a token, like the concept in Inception, an item to bring them back to after they die, basically a teleport-homer, i.e. the book she gave to the girl, leading her back to the craft. Alternatively, with Pyrantis (sp?) he is under control of the Cabal and they could be responsible for putting him where he needs to be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marshal Loss Posted July 17, 2014 Share Posted July 17, 2014 Good read (I'm reeeeealy biased here though) but the fetish for boarding shields drove me insane by the end of the novel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kilofix Posted July 19, 2014 Share Posted July 19, 2014 Just read this. Quick questions as my reading of the HH books has not necessarily been in order and I may have missed something in between (or just not remembered - there are so many books!): 1. Does the plot line about the word "Murder" in the Perpetual's book and Iacton's Oath of Moment in VS continue in a different novel, start in a different novel or is it based on some other long standing 40K mythos?Cause I can't connect it to anything else - though I understand the concept of Perpetuals from some of the other novels - like the plans of the Cabal to let Chaos win, John & Vulkan, and Oll's role in the final confrontation of the Emperor and Horus, etc. 2. Does it seem strange that Horus had to go to Molech while Lorgar had gone to pre-Cadia? Thanks for the insight! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Perrin Posted July 20, 2014 Share Posted July 20, 2014 Just read this. Quick questions as my reading of the HH books has not necessarily been in order and I may have missed something in between (or just not remembered - there are so many books!): 1. Does the plot line about the word "Murder" in the Perpetual's book and Iacton's Oath of Moment in VS continue in a different novel, start in a different novel or is it based on some other long standing 40K mythos? Cause I can't connect it to anything else - though I understand the concept of Perpetuals from some of the other novels - like the plans of the Cabal to let Chaos win, John & Vulkan, and Oll's role in the final confrontation of the Emperor and Horus, etc. 2. Does it seem strange that Horus had to go to Molech while Lorgar had gone to pre-Cadia? Thanks for the insight! The Perpetuals don't seem to be allied to any single faction, nor are they a united group. The Perpetual in this novel seems loyal to the Emperor, but the others we have seen aren't so much. To answer your questions: 1. That plotline only started there and hasn't been followed up yet. In the first Horus Heresy book, Horus Rising, there was a planet called Murder. It was populated by xenos creatures called Megarachnids. Some Blood Angels had gone missing on the planet, and the Emperors Children force that turned up to rescue them ended up stranded without supplies and reinforcements. The Luna Wolves eventually arrived and saved them. It's where the readers first meet Saul Tarvitz, and possibly the first time Loken meets him. It's also the place where the Imperium first met the Interex. Personally, I think maybe Loken and his band of merry men will find something there. Possibly a remnant of the Interex that can help them fight Chaos or set up the proto-Grey Knights or Inquisition. Who knows. A little while after the Murder Oath of Moment is revealed we see Horus remembering the Murder campaign, which to me smacks of foreshadowing. Either way, no you haven't missed anything regarding that plot point. 2. No, not really. The pre-Cadia thing was a nice little easter egg of sorts, didn't get the same feeling from Moloch though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Augustus Posted July 20, 2014 Share Posted July 20, 2014 It seems to me that the four sentient warp storms and the not God emperor are playing some sort of"great game" judging by what we have seen previously and the perpetual's cryptic comments in this book. If so it would perhaps alleviate some of the face palming many seem to have in regards to the Emperor's actions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aegnor Posted July 21, 2014 Share Posted July 21, 2014 Guess in terms of how important Qruze's role was in helping Loken resist Horus is hard to judge when we don't know what Loken turning back would have meant. Maybe if Loken had fallen, it would have led unavoidably to the destruction of the human race. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
betrayer41 Posted July 23, 2014 Share Posted July 23, 2014 when and what was Dwell i feel like i missed a hell of alot Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aegnor Posted July 24, 2014 Share Posted July 24, 2014 The short story "Little Horus" in one of the short story anthology books. It's a good story, and explains what happened when the SoH first arrived at Dwell, and the reconstitution of the Mournival. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
betrayer41 Posted July 24, 2014 Share Posted July 24, 2014 ahhhh ok i will have to pick that up, i just finished vengeful spirit and have now run out of books Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kol Saresk Posted July 24, 2014 Share Posted July 24, 2014 Anything that fleshes out the changes to the traitor primarchs as the Heresy goes on is a good thing. There's a big change in Horus between Fulgrim, where he's OK with, but not necessarily happy about the Dropsite Massacre, plus deciding that he needs to do something about the daemon in Fulgrim, to Nemesis (which I think is the next book he showed up in), where he had no problems letting one of his captains get killed and then exploding the entire planetary population in eight pointed star formations. Someone needs to write something similar for Lorgar, because he's doing things that are hard to fit into the 'hard sacrifices necessary to secure the future of humanity' mindset that he had in The First Heretic. He's making sacrifices (in every possible definition of the word) but they don't seem to be particularly hard for him. Lorgar's actually had a bit. The problem is that he's already had forty previous years to change and we're jumping from the beginning to the end and then moving on to the sequel and thinking that we're still in the first book. His character development has already happened. What we see in The First Heretic is his, for lack of better word, "fatherly concern for his children." What we see in Betrayer and The Underground War is how he defines the requirements for being his son. Kind of like the bible. "If you love me, the keep my commandments." And then just like the god out of the bible, he has absolutely no problem whatsoever punishing those who do not obey his commandments. He just does so in a manner that is useful to the war effort, a la Calth. But I also feel this is where Massacre becomes a required reading as it does show his more ruthless side from even before he began seeking the Chaos Gods. And I believe his journey is not over. In Betrayer, we still see his caring side, how he mourns Argel Tal's death by sicking Khârn on Erebus and how he cares enough about Angron to save him, but also cares enough about his goal that he does so by making Angron a slave using some "I saved your life. So what if I cut off a limb I didn't necessarily have to remove?" type mentality. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kilofix Posted July 26, 2014 Share Posted July 26, 2014 Another question: So was there a specific reason Avila didn't seal the Gate in the span of time after the Emperor used it and before Horus came? Thanks! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kol Saresk Posted July 26, 2014 Share Posted July 26, 2014 Because the Emperor ordered her to guard it, not seal it unless absolutely necessary. Not a really real reason, but it's the only one there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Conn Eremon Posted July 26, 2014 Share Posted July 26, 2014 Case of coulda shoulda woulda. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrafficCustodes Posted August 2, 2014 Share Posted August 2, 2014 I liked 'Vengeful Spirit' a lot, with a few reservations, generally the same as have already been voiced: Blood Angels storyline had an unsatisfying resolution, Mortarion seemed severely out of character, and I'm not sure we need another Perpetual. Overall though it's a fun read with some nice action, nice intrigue, and at last we're seeing the Sons Of Horus do more of what they do best. And I think the book builds Little Horus up quite nicely as a character. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ozeryk_Sleipnijr Posted August 7, 2014 Share Posted August 7, 2014 Well after this mission Russ would be mad to try and take on Horus. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kilofix Posted June 22, 2015 Share Posted June 22, 2015 Sorry about raising this thread from the dead but does anyone remember which loyalist Titan Legio was fighting on Molech? Thanks! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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