Sons of Horus 2k help required

[Ion]

So I've been trying to fine tune my Sons of Horus armylist prior to making any major purchases, and I thought the best approach would be to get some opinions on here.

 

Thus far the only things I am absolutely going to have are the cataphractii terminators and praetor, and the Contemptor (loadout can vary), since I have those models already. Everything else is fair game. My idea is to build a sort of hammer and anvil list, a solid core that can take and hold a key position with quicker support that can flank or take out threats further back.

 

So here is what I have so far:

 

HQ
Praetor - Cataphractii Armour, Paragon Blade, Digital Lasers

 

Elites

Apothecarion Detachment (1) - No upgrades

 

Cataphractii Terminator Squad (10) - Chainfist, 2x Combi-plasma, Reaper Autocannon, Plasma Blaster

 

Contemptor Mortis - Two Twinlinked Lascannons

 

Troops

Legion Assault Squad (10) - Pair of Lightning claws, 2x Power Weapon

 

Legion Assault Squad (10) - 2x Power Weapon

 

Legion Tactical Squad (15) - Power Fist, Legion Vexilla

 

Fast Attack

N/A

 

Heavy Support

Legion Heavy Support Squad (5) - Volkite Culverin

 

TOTAL: 1749 points

 

So what I'd like to know is whether the list seems like a good starting point, and what should I perhaps aim to use those last 250pts on?

 

Thanks for your time.

[Moonstalker]

I like the Praetor, he's nice and cheap with a pretty standard loadout.

 

Contemptor-Mortis with twin TLLC, another favorite for AA and tank hunting.

 

Tactical squad with attached apothecary is also good.  If you're going to put an unwieldy weapon on the sergeant, see about also getting him some artificer armor.  Heavy support squad with Culverins is another solid choice for some anti-infantry firepower.

 

 

Things I don't like, though... two minimum-size assault squads.  I think they're a pretty bad value even when full size, but at minimum size?  You're really paying a hefty premium for them.  If you combine them into a single 20 man squad, you save 100 points.

 

Footslogging Cataphractii blob is a much firmer no.  This is something that just isn't going to work out for you, unless your opponent is so assault-focused themselves that they have no choice but to come directly at you.  Their mobility is so bad that they can be kited around the field almost endlessly, and they can actually die pretty easily to massed bolter fire (something their enhanced invul doesn't do anything to protect them against).  If you're bringing these guys, bring a Spartan for them.

[Ion]

My original intention was to have a full sized assault squad, I just wasn't sure if it would be better to have more flexibility that splitting it would allow.

 

As for the Cataphractii, I had thought to sit them on objectives, but if they're really that bad without a transport then I have enough wriggle room (after combining the assault squad) put in a Spartan. What sort of upgrades would be necessary in that situation? Combining the assault squad and adding a spartan gives me 1934pts, so 76pts to work with.

[Moonstalker]

Assuming we're talking about upgrades for the Spartan, Flare Shield and Armored Ceramite are pretty standard on it.  If you were strapped for points, I would think about potentially dropping the Flare Shield, but try to keep the Ceramite in any case.  Either way, if you're going with Cataphractii you need that mobility.  You can't even rely on them to just stand around on an objective and die slowly considering how much firepower there is in 30k.  Even tactical squads can put out a dangerous volume of fire with Fury of the Legion.

 

With the assault squad, the points saved is worth that little loss of flexibility, IMO.  There will be times when having two squads is beneficial, for taking out something smaller like a heavy support squad in the backfield or maybe try and grab two objectives at once, but any time you need to take on the bog-standard tactical blob you're going to have to hit it with both squads, or you're quite likely to lose the resulting melee.  Getting the discount on the bigger squad will allow you to take other units elsewhere in your list that can help make up for that loss of flexibility while giving you the concentrated power you need for taking on big units.

 

 

Have you maybe thought about using the Pride of the Legion Rite of War?  It would move your Terminator squad into troops and allow you to possibly drop the tacticals (and possibly the apothecary, aaaand maybe even the heavy support squad).  Maybe your list ends up looking more like Praetor + Cataphractii in a Spartan, two squads of 15 assault marines, and a couple Contemptor-Mortises?  Or maybe a contemptor mortis and a sicaran?  Alternately, maybe you can get a fortification for the heavy support squad after you drop the tacticals, and beef that squad up to be the immobile anvil to the rest of your army's hammer?

[Ion]

I had contemplated Pride of the Legion, and while I'm not 100% sure either way, I think my primary reason not to comes from the thematic aspect of the XVI legion preference for having feet on the ground. I distinctly remember somewhere it being said that Horus felt that infantry was a key part of his legion.

 

If I were to switch to that RoW it'd mean less bodies on the ground (which is good for my wallet I suppose), so how would that effect 30k games? 

 

This is, after all, my first HH era army.

[Moonstalker]

Well, I wouldn't get too hung up on what was 'common' for any particular legion.  Any reasonably sized tabletop army is really just a tiny sliver of what a Legion would be fighting with.  The legions were so vast that they had formations of all different types.  So, if you want to just go crazy, double up on the number of terminators you have and commit to the Pride of the Legion thing, then don't feel like it's not fluffy.  At many points in the SoH's fighting during the GC and HH, I'm sure they've employed a terminator spearhead as part of a larger battle plenty of times.

 

There are some really bad choices that just don't work, like footslogging Cataphractii.  Or spamming minimum size Breacher squads.  There are some overpriced units that won't ever perform well, like Justaerin.  But on the whole the legion list is pretty well balanced.  The difference between the most competitive choice and the least often isn't that big of a gap.   As long as you're covering your basics with anti-infantry, anti-tank, anti-air, scoring, etc, you should be okay.  So if you want to go with the terminator-heavy Pride of the Legion force, you'll deal with the same issues that any low model count elite army has, but you'll probably come out of the deal with some heavy, durable vehicles and some powerful melee units.  With smart play and carefully chosen engagements you can make the list work, so long as you're careful about not over exposing yourself, letting your terminators get caught out in the middle of the field against a gunline, etc.

 

Overall, though, I'd recommend as much playtesting with proxies as you can squeeze in, and always keeping an eye toward fewer, larger squads.  A minimum size squad here or there isn't too bad, but those points you pay in the squad tax do start to add up.  Fielding low models because you went with all minimum size squads is just a recipe for disaster.

[Durfast Spiritwolf]

I think Abaddon is very compatibly pointed and would give your Termies the option to Deep Strike.

[Triacom]

Durfast is correct, Abaddon gives you the ability to Deep Strike which makes the Cataphractii a lot more mobile without putting in huge points (and money) towards a Spartan, after him I'd recommend putting your remaining points towards upgrades, or maybe another apothecary if you can free up the points, those guys come in handy more times than you'd think.