Crossing over to the loyalists

[Gaweda]

Greetings, been back in the hobby for a while now and have been thoroughly enjoying playing as CSM. However, I got to reading about the Blood Angels a while back and have gradually been indoctrinated into thinking maybe the corpse emperor isn't so bad after all...I was going to wait until the new codex came out, but I had a self control wibble (I think that's a medical term or something sciency) and ended up spending hours poring over a second hand BA codex I got my mitts on and writing out an army list. And possibly buying some models too, but we'll ignore that for now.

 

Here's my issue; I'm so used to playing CSM, reveling in melting Dark Angels with Heldrake's and tearing down Necron Monolith's with Maulerfiend's that I'm not overly confident in my ability to make a decent Blood Angel's army list. I enjoy fluffy things in all senses of the word, so I'm determined to have some Death Company. And I just couldn't say no to the Vanguard Veteran's because my DA opponent constantly whines about the fact his terminators can't assault after deep striking, and I'm so looking forward to doing that with them. Anyway, I feel like it could do with some refinement from those who have been loyalists for far longer than myself, so help a new battle brother out and give me your thoughts.

 

Mephiston – 250

Brother Corbulo – 105

Drop Pod - 35

Saunguinary Priests (2) - 100

Assault Squad with Jump Packs (10) w/2x Meltagun – 210

Assault Squad with Jump Packs (10) w/2x Flamer – 200

Death Company (11) – 220

Death Company Dreadnought w/ Blood Talons – 125

Stormraven Gunship – 200

Vanguard Veterans (5) Sergeant w/ Thunder Hammer + Storm Shield, 1 Pair Lightning Claws – 180

Furioso Dreadnought w/ Drop Pod – 160

Furioso Librarian w/ Drop Pod – 210

Total: 1995

 

Edit: Oh yes, we usually play 1500 - 2000 point games, 2 v 2 usually. The gentlemen I play with have Eldar, Necron, Dark Angels, Chaos Daemons, and there is rumor of a Tau force being built.

[Sans Mercy]

Nice list. Just sprinkle some ap2 sauce on those death company. Maybe 2-4 power axes and\or a thunder hammer.

[Sans Mercy]

And I think the VV points are off too. Did you pay for jump packs for deep striking/heroic intervention?

[Gaweda]

Ah...yes, I did miss that. I'll have to switch a few things around.

[Sans Mercy]

Drop the 2 SPs and then then get 3 PW for the DC and 5 JP for the VV. They didn't have JPs anyhoo and wouldn't have helped your list. Just an idea. And the extra 5 points can get you a melta bomb for the melta AMS

[Quixus]

You cannot purchase a drop pod separately only as a dedicated transport. The drop pod could go with the vanguard veterans, if they didn't have jump packs, but then they would not get Heroic Intervention.

 

While a pair of lightning claws looks nice, it is an inefficient use of points. For the additional 15 pts you get one extra S user AP 3 shred attack over a marine with one claw. If the other claw goes to another marine, you get two such attacks, and three on the charge, four with furious charge. You also get two bolt pistol shots.

 

Think about "hiding" the thunder hammer and Storm Shield on a regular VV.

[FishFuzz99]

I don't think death company can take power axes, only fists, hammers, and swords.

 

EDIT: I was mistaken. Battlescribe only has swords as an option for some reason, codex says power weapon.

[Quixus]

I don't think death company can take power axes, only fists, hammers, and swords.

You are mistaken. The Errata dcoument says to replace all mentions of power swords with power weapons. So you can have any type of power weapon.

 

The erratum isn't even needed. The DC entry already says power weapon.

[Father Mapple]

Your list looks pretty good, actually. There's just a few tactical concerns, but maybe they'll fit since you have to rejuggle some points anyways.

 

I recommend dropping 1 death company to fit the squad into a drop pod - that gives you 3 drop pods still, but now you can have Mephiston ride in the Stormraven. I am assuming that Corbulo is going with him? Because I don't see anywhere else for him to go that makes sense to me. That doesn't mean you're doing it wrong, just that i don't understand. But I routinely put 8 or 9 death company in a pod, and spring for a reclusiarch when i have spare points to make that pod very anti-horde or 2+ saves. Give them bolters, shoot in, then charge with 4/5 attacks on the charge, rerolling hits and wounds. Even terminator squads disappear. 

 

If you are going to run the 20 Assault Squaders in the same area, you can use 1 Priest to help both of them out and provide the bubble of Feel No Pain and Furious Charge across both squads. That saves a bunch of points.

 

If you can spring for it, putting Locater Beacons on the two 1st turn Drop Pods will scare your opponent because that means suddenly anything within about 12-15" of your drop pods can be assaulted very easily by Vanguard Vets. With them coming in from reserves on re-rollable 3s, they come down around 90% of the time on turn 2.

[Quixus]

If you can spring for it, putting Locater Beacons on the two 1st turn Drop Pods will scare your opponent because that means suddenly anything within about 12-15" of your drop pods can be assaulted very easily by Vanguard Vets. With them coming in from reserves on re-rollable 3s, they come down around 90% of the time on turn 2.

More importantly the opponent won't fire on them before he has destroyed the two dreads that came with the pods. Two Fragiosos are perfect for that tactic.

I don't know if you have heard about how the new shooting rules benefited the dreadnoughts with magna grapple. The grappling hook can pull a vehicle into melta range

[Gaweda]

You cannot purchase a drop pod separately only as a dedicated transport. The drop pod could go with the vanguard veterans, if they didn't have jump packs, but then they would not get Heroic Intervention.

 

While a pair of lightning claws looks nice, it is an inefficient use of points. For the additional 15 pts you get one extra S user AP 3 shred attack over a marine with one claw. If the other claw goes to another marine, you get two such attacks, and three on the charge, four with furious charge. You also get two bolt pistol shots.

 

Think about "hiding" the thunder hammer and Storm Shield on a regular VV.

 

*facepalm* Right, I completely did not think about the fact that drop pods had to be dedicated transports. Thanks for catching that. That foiled my mephistar plan. It does sadden my heart to break up the pair of lightning claws, but I cannot deny your excellent tactical advice. It shall be done!

 

Your list looks pretty good, actually. There's just a few tactical concerns, but maybe they'll fit since you have to rejuggle some points anyways.

 

I recommend dropping 1 death company to fit the squad into a drop pod - that gives you 3 drop pods still, but now you can have Mephiston ride in the Stormraven. I am assuming that Corbulo is going with him? Because I don't see anywhere else for him to go that makes sense to me. That doesn't mean you're doing it wrong, just that i don't understand. But I routinely put 8 or 9 death company in a pod, and spring for a reclusiarch when i have spare points to make that pod very anti-horde or 2+ saves. Give them bolters, shoot in, then charge with 4/5 attacks on the charge, rerolling hits and wounds. Even terminator squads disappear. 

 

If you are going to run the 20 Assault Squaders in the same area, you can use 1 Priest to help both of them out and provide the bubble of Feel No Pain and Furious Charge across both squads. That saves a bunch of points.

 

If you can spring for it, putting Locater Beacons on the two 1st turn Drop Pods will scare your opponent because that means suddenly anything within about 12-15" of your drop pods can be assaulted very easily by Vanguard Vets. With them coming in from reserves on re-rollable 3s, they come down around 90% of the time on turn 2.

 

Yup, I had been reading the Mephistar thread and have no qualms about throwing that up against Necron and Eldar. I like the idea of switching the death company to the drop pod, though I admit I'm confused as to your comment about the reclusiarch and 2+ saves. In terms of dropping a priest, would you still attach him to one of the squads? The locator beacons are also a fun idea, being Chaos I've only ever looked on them with scorn and fury. 

[SonOfThunder]

Reclusiarch helps wiping 2+ saves thanks to volume of wounds :)...10 guys charging, 9 of them have 4 attacks (if you give them bolters), rerolling both to hit and to wound. WS 5 and S5 (on the charge) means hitting on 3s, wounding on 3s. Rerolling. That will yield so many saves that even terminator squads will have a tough time. So basically you can munch light infantry that usually come in big numbers, since you've plenty of attacks, or obliterate small squads with good saves, since you'll be forcing so many saves that there's bound to be several 1s. Without the reclusiarch rerolls, it's still plenty of attacks, but the rerolls can really make a difference. You don't need a reclusiarch either, the regular chaplain does fine.

[Quixus]

You don't need a reclusiarch either, the regular chaplain does fine.

Well unless he wants to go unbound, the 3 elite slots are already full (sanguinary priests, Furioso, Furioso librarian). He only has one HQ though. The pod unfortunately invalidates Lemartes as upgrade.

[Father Mapple]

I would still attach a jump pack priest to one of the squads, but keep him wrapped up. If the enemy is generally just across the table from you, run 1 squad within the 6" bubble/aura but in front of the other squad that has the priest attached. This means the front squad gets Feel No Pain if they shoot at it, but if they shoot stronger stuff or AP3/2 stuff at the priest's squad, you'll get cover from the assault squad in front. The front squad can also absorb a charge to keep the priest out of close combat, and then the priest's squad can charge and get the full benefit of all the attacks being S5 for sure if the front squad gets charged.

And SonOfThunder got it right - My 8/9 Death Company and Reclusiarch routinely wipe out 5 Terminators, 20 man guardian/kabalite squads, and lots of other stuff, with no power weapons other than a fist hidden in the DC and a powermaul on the chaplain.

[SonOfThunder]

Ops, didn't see the FOC thing. But, isn't Corbulo an elite option of his own then?...that'd be 4 elites...

[Father Mapple]

Corbulo is not a separate choice - he can be 1 of the 1-3 priests coming from the same single Elites slot. He's an IC, but bought in the same 1-3 per elite slot. So 1 Jump Priest and 1 Corbulo is still 1 Elite spot with another priest still able to be purchased.

[Quixus]

Corbulo is not a separate choice - he can be 1 of the 1-3 priests coming from the same single Elites slot. He's an IC, but bought in the same 1-3 per elite slot. So 1 Jump Priest and 1 Corbulo is still 1 Elite spot with another priest still able to be purchased.

With a Furioso and a Furioso librarian (2 elites choices) there still is no room for a chaplain.

[SonOfThunder]

Thanks for clearing that up :)...yep, chaplain is not an option.

[Gaweda]

Perhaps if I switched the furioso to another death company dreadnought? I do like the sound of this Reclusiarch. 

[Quixus]

You can take the Reclusiarch without changing anything. The Reclusiarch is a HQ choice. Only the regular Chaplain is an Elites choice.

[SonOfThunder]

Reclusiarch kicks serious ass with the DC, and he's very fluffy. Another option to achieve a similar effect is to give the DC jump packs, then you can get Lemartes (doesn't take slot because he's an upgrade for the DC, a-la Telion). But this makes the DC uber-expensive (but fun :D)

[Quixus]

Reclusiarch kicks serious ass with the DC, and he's very fluffy. Another option to achieve a similar effect is to give the DC jump packs, then you can get Lemartes (doesn't take slot because he's an upgrade for the DC, a-la Telion). But this makes the DC uber-expensive (but fun )

You can take Lemartes even if the DC do not have jump packs. You just can't put the DC with Lemartes in a drop pod. They would have to mosey up to the enemy or arrive in a stormraven (one of the few transports that can take jump infantry). Up to 10 DC + Lemartes in a stormraven sounds pretty scary. It is also a lot of points, minimum 550.

[Gaweda]

This is all very helpful, I very much appreciate the discussion. I'm now not so sure I want to do the mephistar, it sounds like the points could potentially be spent better elsewhere. Thoughts?

[Gaweda]

Here's where I'm at after listening to people in this thread and applying changes, and also removing the Mephistar. The Reclusiarch and Death Company would be in the Storm Raven along with the Death Company Dreadnought. It's a lot of points, but my goodness if I got them out it would be glorious slaughter in the name of Khor....for the Emperor. This leaves me with still 265 points to play around with, and I'm just not sure what to do with them. I'd love another pod (or two), but I just don't know what to put in them.

 

Reclusiarch - 130

Saunguinary Priest w/ Jump Pack (1) – 75

Assault Squad w/ Jump Packs (10) w/2x Meltagun – 210

Assault Squad w/ Jump Packs (10) w/2x Flamer – 200

Death Company (10) – 200

Death Company Dreadnought w/ Blood Talons – 125

Stormraven Gunship – 200

Vanguard Veterans (5) Sergeant w/ Thunder Hammer + Storm Shield, 2 Infernus Pistols – 225

Furioso Dreadnought w/ Drop Pod – 160

Furioso Librarian w/ Drop Pod – 210

Total: 1760

 

With the VV, I opted to keep the Thunder Hammer and Storm Shield with the sergeant because of the 15 point discount on the thunder hammer. I dropped the lightning claws for the Infernus Pistols because I like the idea of them being able to pop a vehicle if necessary.

 

Edit: It was a very tough choice between Lemartes and a Reclusiarch. What model should I even use for a Reclusiarch? Also edited to correct list and points.

[FishFuzz99]

Do jump infantry not count as two models in a stormraven?